Why so much hate in pvp?

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    Tolvo
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    Re: Why so much hate in pvp?

    Post by Tolvo on Thu Mar 29, 2012 4:04 pm

    Thank you for calling me a retard.

    I said in this scenario the person is not waiting for summons, they are merely waiting around. If I see a person is anywhere for PvE I leave them alone unless they seek me out in which case I consider it as looking for PvP, I was speaking of a person with no other reason to be there other than to PvP. If they are there to PvP, there are standards a lot of people agree to. Personally I'm not fond of backstabbing, but I don't really care if people do it as long as they aren't BS fishing in which case I will punish them heavily for doing it.

    By the way, please stray from personal attacks on people, I like to keep things as nice and civil as possible.

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    Re: Why so much hate in pvp?

    Post by Guest on Thu Mar 29, 2012 4:07 pm

    Like I said before if you want so called fair duals throw down a sign & agree to terms before hand. Otherwise if it's forced (red orb, blue orb, cats ring, DM ring) then all bets are off regardless of the situation.
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    Re: Why so much hate in pvp?

    Post by Tolvo on Thu Mar 29, 2012 4:12 pm

    So I should merely kill anyone I invade because of how I get into the world? I don't agree to that, I think it is pretty rotten thing to do. Besides in the Kiln I can't leave signs down, every time I've left a sign down I've been summoned by farmers, and while I almost always kill them I intend to duel in the kiln, so it is out of my reach to use the RSS there. As well with the Dragon Eye typically I get summoned and people attempt to BS me as I bow to duel them. However, when I invade people I find more willing to duel against me. Plus I like the safety of not having to spawn in one spot where I can quickly be hit, I rather like to enter from further away and assess my situation. As well sometimes if I wish to duel I wait in the Kiln human, as I find invaders to be very friendly while often when I summon people through RSS they merely go for an instant kill backstab. Usually when I summon other dragons though they are very friendly, however finding their signs is always the true trouble.
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    Re: Why so much hate in pvp?

    Post by Forum Pirate on Thu Mar 29, 2012 4:15 pm

    Please don't be insulting. Esp. towards Tolvo. He's, by far, one of the nicest and most reasonable people here.

    He was simply correctly applying you logic to different situations to show you its flaws.

    And both reasons 2 and 4 are invalid as the hypothetical person was waiting for pvp.

    No one was telling you how to play. In random invasions you're both justified in doing whatever is necessary and most here will agree. However if you are chilling by the entrance to the kiln, you are inviting pvp. Even if its in ignorance, its still your fualt and other people are not to blame for your "aescthetic" choices. Being human invites invaders. Deal with it or play hollow or off line.


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    Re: Why so much hate in pvp?

    Post by Tolvo on Thu Mar 29, 2012 4:21 pm

    By the way Oo while Forum and I are in agreement on this, do not feel ganged up on an unwelcome. Debate and discussion is always welcome, differing opinions will always help everyone in understanding their own views. I don't want you to feel like it is old members merely ganging up on new members, it's just that we don't agree on this one issue. I just felt the need to voice this as you are new to the community and do not wish to give you a sour start.
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    Re: Why so much hate in pvp?

    Post by Kaminari on Thu Mar 29, 2012 4:30 pm

    Question about the backstabing part. You invade someone, the hos Bow, you Bow, You see the host is using the knife. That should make it obvious that he will go for backstabs right? Since knife is useless head first. Does this make the host "Cheap" if he goes for backstabbing, since you should be able to see instantly that he will go for backstab? I mean, on the other hand he will barely do any damage at all head first, right?


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    Re: Why so much hate in pvp?

    Post by Yukon on Thu Mar 29, 2012 4:33 pm

    They could also get away with parries, But more often than not no one uses SOLELY the bandit knife. They will switch between a long range weapon say.. a claymore or estoc and the bandit knife when they are in close quarters.

    Basically if someone is BS with a broken sword, they are doing it just to play with you.

    Does it make it cheap? No, but it can be pretty boring unless they intend to use the knife to parry and BS rather than just circling you like a dog.


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    Re: Why so much hate in pvp?

    Post by Tolvo on Thu Mar 29, 2012 4:35 pm

    As long as they aren't BS fishing, you can still use a knife for damage and bleed, you can actually deal a lot of damage with a knife if you know how to use one. As I said earlier I'm not fond of BS in duels, but with Randoms I just accept that they'll do it. The only thing I don't allow is BS fishing, because that is no risk all reward, so I'll just dead angle them down. The same thing applies to parry turtling. There are ways to get around any style, I just prefer not to see said style used as they are no risk all reward.
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    Re: Why so much hate in pvp?

    Post by Kaminari on Thu Mar 29, 2012 4:36 pm

    Yukon wrote:They could also get away with parries, But more often than not no one uses SOLELY the bandit knife. They will switch between a long range weapon say.. a claymore or estoc and the bandit knife when they are in close quarters.

    Basically if someone is BS with a broken sword, they are doing it just to play with you.

    Does it make it cheap? No, but it can be pretty boring unless they intend to use the knife to parry and BS rather than just circling you like a dog.

    Whats the problem if Someone circles you like a dog? Trick them in a posistion and strike them down. Problem solved? That's how I do it..


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    Re: Why so much hate in pvp?

    Post by Tolvo on Thu Mar 29, 2012 4:38 pm

    Often they will have a hornet's ring and be going for an instant kill, meaning they don't wish to enjoy a fight. They just want to kill the other player and win, that's all they're concerned with. Especially if they wear high poise armor with it. Those people are a particular favourite of mine to dead angle stunlock, they can't parry, can't bs, and can't get away unless they know a certain trick.
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    Re: Why so much hate in pvp?

    Post by Forum Pirate on Thu Mar 29, 2012 4:41 pm

    i wog stun bs or counter bs the idiot straff. Hope that if i punish it enough they'll look for a different way.


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    Re: Why so much hate in pvp?

    Post by Kaminari on Thu Mar 29, 2012 4:41 pm

    Tolvo wrote:Often they will have a hornet's ring and be going for an instant kill, meaning they don't wish to enjoy a fight. They just want to kill the other player and win, that's all they're concerned with.

    This is a part I don't really get, isn't a duel about trying to kill your opponent? What's wrong with trying to do it fast? What is it that says the person that does this dosen't enjoy the fight?


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    Re: Why so much hate in pvp?

    Post by Serious_Much on Thu Mar 29, 2012 4:43 pm

    Kaminari wrote:
    Tolvo wrote:Often they will have a hornet's ring and be going for an instant kill, meaning they don't wish to enjoy a fight. They just want to kill the other player and win, that's all they're concerned with.

    This is a part I don't really get, isn't a duel about trying to kill your opponent? What's wrong with trying to do it fast? What is it that says the person that does this dosen't enjoy the fight?

    I think he's basing it on the well know fact that something earned through hard work and determination is better than something you get handed to you on a platter. Which is something we all know well as it is what the majority of Dark Souls is based around.


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    Re: Why so much hate in pvp?

    Post by Tolvo on Thu Mar 29, 2012 4:47 pm

    Kamin, what games do you play other than Dark Souls? I might be able to find a good comparison between BS fishing and something in a multiplayer aspect of another game you might play.
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    Re: Why so much hate in pvp?

    Post by Kaminari on Thu Mar 29, 2012 4:47 pm

    Serious_Much wrote:
    Kaminari wrote:
    Tolvo wrote:Often they will have a hornet's ring and be going for an instant kill, meaning they don't wish to enjoy a fight. They just want to kill the other player and win, that's all they're concerned with.

    This is a part I don't really get, isn't a duel about trying to kill your opponent? What's wrong with trying to do it fast? What is it that says the person that does this dosen't enjoy the fight?

    I think he's basing it on the well know fact that something earned through hard work and determination is better than something you get handed to you on a platter. Which is something we all know well as it is what the majority of Dark Souls is based around.

    I'm sorry, but I don't see why it would be easier to backstab someone if that someone has alot of health AND knows how to handle someone that shows his intentions. I find it sometimes harder to do anything against someone that is making a 10 hit combo at me wich makes me unable to move if the will land one hit. they still have to land that backstab.


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    Re: Why so much hate in pvp?

    Post by Yukon on Thu Mar 29, 2012 4:48 pm

    I wasn't saying I don't know how to counter a dog, the problem with circling is what I outlined in my sentence you quoted. Its boring.

    The problem with these people is they don't STOP doing it after you punish them for doing it, its all they seem to know to do. And as much of a blast as it is to reposition them and punish them doing it about 3-4 times while they run to pop humanity then try the EXACT same tactic, its just mind numbingly boring to fight from my perspective.

    Does it work.. sure sometimes I guess, but when someone blows your tactic in your face again and again why continue doing the same thing if it didnt work the first 4 times?


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    Re: Why so much hate in pvp?

    Post by Kaminari on Thu Mar 29, 2012 4:49 pm

    Tolvo wrote:Kamin, what games do you play other than Dark Souls? I might be able to find a good comparison between BS fishing and something in a multiplayer aspect of another game you might play.

    Please, say Kami or Kaminari happy
    I play Dark souls, Assassins creed B and R. Uh...well..that's pretty much it when it comes to the Multiplayer games.


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    Re: Why so much hate in pvp?

    Post by Kaminari on Thu Mar 29, 2012 4:51 pm

    Yukon wrote:I wasn't saying I don't know how to counter a dog, the problem with circling is what I outlined in my sentence you quoted. Its boring.

    The problem with these people is they don't STOP doing it after you punish them for doing it, its all they seem to know to do. And as much of a blast as it is to reposition them and punish them doing it about 3-4 times while they run to pop humanity then try the EXACT same tactic, its just mind numbingly boring to fight from my perspective.

    Does it work.. sure sometimes I guess, but when someone blows your tactic in your face again and again why continue doing the same thing if it didnt work the first 4 times?


    Then the problem isn't really the backstabbing right? I mean, isn't it the exact same thing if I try to go head on with you and you show me it dosen't work, and I will try again....and again...and again...and even Re-invade to try again? Still just as repetitive in my opinion?
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    Re: Why so much hate in pvp?

    Post by Tolvo on Thu Mar 29, 2012 4:52 pm

    Hmm, I don't know anything about the Creed online aspects, so I can't really find a common ground there then.

    By the way, there is a way to get out of stunlock, if you switch your weapon in hand you can get free after I believe it is, the second stun? So that way you won't just die. If you are BS fishing in response to something, I do consider that a bit different, if I see someone try to use a glitch on me, I'll typically just BS them for an instant kill after quick in menu switching my weapons. But against normal players, I find BS fishing unnecessary. It's quite like the Noob Tube of Call of Duty, if that is a comparison you might get.
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    Re: Why so much hate in pvp?

    Post by Kaminari on Thu Mar 29, 2012 4:54 pm

    Tolvo wrote:Hmm, I don't know anything about the Creed online aspects, so I can't really find a common ground there then.

    By the way, there is a way to get out of stunlock, if you switch your weapon in hand you can get free after I believe it is, the second stun? So that way you won't just die. If you are BS fishing in response to something, I do consider that a bit different, if I see someone try to use a glitch on me, I'll typically just BS them for an instant kill after quick in menu switching my weapons. But against normal players, I find BS fishing unnecessary. It's quite like the Noob Tube of Call of Duty, if that is a comparison you might get.

    never played the COD games, well, had 2-3 matches but never liked it..thanks for the tip how to interrupt the stunlock, I'll try keep it in mind.
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    Re: Why so much hate in pvp?

    Post by Serious_Much on Thu Mar 29, 2012 4:54 pm

    Kaminari wrote:
    Serious_Much wrote:
    Kaminari wrote:
    Tolvo wrote:Often they will have a hornet's ring and be going for an instant kill, meaning they don't wish to enjoy a fight. They just want to kill the other player and win, that's all they're concerned with.

    This is a part I don't really get, isn't a duel about trying to kill your opponent? What's wrong with trying to do it fast? What is it that says the person that does this dosen't enjoy the fight?

    I think he's basing it on the well know fact that something earned through hard work and determination is better than something you get handed to you on a platter. Which is something we all know well as it is what the majority of Dark Souls is based around.

    I'm sorry, but I don't see why it would be easier to backstab someone if that someone has alot of health AND knows how to handle someone that shows his intentions. I find it sometimes harder to do anything against someone that is making a 10 hit combo at me wich makes me unable to move if the will land one hit. they still have to land that backstab.

    It's pretty easy to land the BS on someone, and if you're using a large weapon and the hornets ring, it's pretty much an instakill. Especially with the lag the online of this game has, drifting in behind someone is easy since the lag means they have virtually 0 time to react. It's far easier, debating the point is pretty pointless since if someone is good enough to stop a BS, they will undoubtedly be even better at dodging normal attacks.


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    Re: Why so much hate in pvp?

    Post by Yukon on Thu Mar 29, 2012 4:56 pm

    If you are trying again and again, things are gonna change, you will notice how I play hopefully, and you might get closer to finishing me or you might start playing me into a corner knowing how I like to roll attack or piviot or whatever.

    If you are going to fight me head on you are gonna find a way to adapt, its not the same. If you are going for a BS you are ALWAYS going to be circling me either left or right. Not much is going to change.

    I said that the knife fight would be more fun if the figher ALSO used parries, that would mean they mixed it up between trying to find my back and punishing my attempts to keep distance between us, THAT is a fun fight, that is something I have fun with.


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    Re: Why so much hate in pvp?

    Post by Kaminari on Thu Mar 29, 2012 5:00 pm

    Yukon wrote:If you are trying again and again, things are gonna change, you will notice how I play hopefully, and you might get closer to finishing me or you might start playing me into a corner knowing how I like to roll attack or piviot or whatever.

    If you are going to fight me head on you are gonna find a way to adapt, its not the same. If you are going for a BS you are ALWAYS going to be circling me either left or right. Not much is going to change.

    I said that the knife fight would be more fun if the figher ALSO used parries, that would mean they mixed it up between trying to find my back and punishing my attempts to keep distance between us, THAT is a fun fight, that is something I have fun with.

    Still, you can change the ways to get a backstab as well? Yes, circle right, circle left, you can also flip straight toward the target, I have seen people who have used the toxic clouds to hide their appearence,

    but enough about what you can do, I just stated that in your statement, you said the boring thing was that they tried the same thing after being punished, but then it should be no diffrence if I would do anything else and get punished for it, without realising it won't work?
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    Re: Why so much hate in pvp?

    Post by Forum Pirate on Thu Mar 29, 2012 5:07 pm

    Yes.

    imo a skilled fisher is a different story.

    The problem is that fishing is really common but fishers who do anything other than circle to my left are not.

    I have the same problem with bkga r1 spam. I don't gain anything by killing people to dumb to at least try something different.


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    Re: Why so much hate in pvp?

    Post by Yukon on Thu Mar 29, 2012 5:11 pm

    In the case where they began to flip towards me rather than just circle me, I agree with you that would make things more interesting. My problem here lies with the people that do nothing different. I would have less of a problem if they tried to find my back in another manner other than simply strafing to my side over and over again.

    I am not sure I understand your question. But I think you are saying if someone is punished for doing the same thing, then tries to do something different but is still punished for it isn't is still boring?

    My problem lies with monotony so no, if you are doing different things and I counter all of them that is one thing, Its hard for me to adjust myself and counter you every step of the way.

    But say you are running at me with a knife and I side step... so you turn around and run at me with the knife again and again I side step. SO YOU TURN AROUND and you run at me again... etc.. eventually ONE of us is going to get bored. Its like throwing a dog a ball. If you throw the ball predominantly to the left the dog will start going to the left instictively, he won't even watch what you are doing, the dog is still having fun but my left arm is getting tired.

    I have a lot more fun throwing the ball when I mix it up.

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