There's more to them

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    Shabbalaba
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    Re: There's more to them

    Post by Shabbalaba on Wed Jul 11, 2012 6:40 pm

    Maybe The Pendant pushed him

    Mystery solved.

    :pendant:


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    Re: There's more to them

    Post by About8547Souls on Wed Jul 11, 2012 9:16 pm

    I'd imagine he might have broken a leg after the fall or something. He didn't bother to move much. And I have a hard time thinking that the Asylum Demon beat him up, considering all of the places he has gone in game. He was leaving help signs in places with monsters several times more fierce than that sorry excuse for a demon lol.

    As for handing flasks through a bar, he could have just told you all of that from the roof. It's not like you were going anywhere without his key.


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    Re: There's more to them

    Post by DoughGuy on Wed Jul 11, 2012 9:23 pm

    You know what is odd? You find him hollowed exactly where he commited suicide. Did he revive there or did he wander there from the unlit bonfire?


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    Re: There's more to them

    Post by Scirvir on Wed Jul 11, 2012 10:04 pm

    That IS odd. Maybe he was trying to get to his bloodstain. Someone should try dropping a ring of sacrifice for that fool.
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    Re: There's more to them

    Post by skarekrow13 on Tue Jul 17, 2012 12:16 pm

    Reah Reah Reah. Interesting psychology and theology facts I just thought of. I've noted several times now that WoW characters seem to represent religious archetypes to cover the spectrum of organized churches. Her story appears to be the religious fanatic, so dedicated to her beliefs that she finds hierarchy in them (she doesn't like you since you don't look religious enough for her tastes, how dare you address someone so sanctified). After saving her bacon and seeing that faith is great but won't save you from towers of animated skeletons after being kicked in a hole, suddenly she finds the time of day for you. A couple of interesting thoughts about her based on fighting her. I haven't killed her anywhere but the Parish so I'm going off of the reports of others, but it's my understanding she pretty much just punches you at any point that you attack her.

    First off, some fun facts. You can't learn anything from her until she reaches the Parish. It's safe to say that she knows some miracles prior to this point but she doesn't like you enough until then. Penn and Teller, the warriors, are killed in the ToG. She is not. So putting this together, we can't know for sure which miracles she is privy to at any point except at the Parish. So at some point prior to then, she learned (or figured out, Wrath of the Gods). So why doesn't she blast you to kingdom come if you attack her?

    Perhaps her faith or will is only strong enough to use this miracle for a very brief amount of her time in Lordran. Here's my theory.....

    Wrath of Gods is a "primal" form of force, the "modern miracle." Reah, at almost all points in time will not use it, yet knows it when we find her in the parish. Prior to leaving for the Catacombs, Reah may not even know this miracle yet. As a result, attacking her means she can't use it. Heading through the catacombs, most of the protection is from Penn and Teller. Once tricked by Patches, they group is hanging out in the hole. My theory would be that Penn and Teller attempt to find a way out and instead aggro the bone towers, an enemy that, in the darkness and funneling the duo, is too much to handle. Seeing her friends getting slaughtered pushes Reah into hysteria and this combination of anger/faith/willpower turns the "tale" of the Wrath of the Gods into an actual miracle. As miracles are stories given life through faith it stands to reason she has the story memorized but until then it was just a fairy tale. Her primal nature in desperation is the key here. This drives back the towers and could be why she lives while the others die/go hollow. Following this, her ability to harness the power is lost. When we reach her, she has clearly been shaken in her faith. She no longer is worried about our place in her perceived hierarchy and is despondent. Not emotions typically and feelings typically tied to that level of willpower/faith. So when she finally decides to be our teacher our role is similar to her's as a student. She can teach us the tale of the Wrath of the Gods but it's up to us to find the faith to use it. Since our character is assumed to never have their faith or will shaken as badly as her's, we get to retain our use of the miracle.

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    Re: There's more to them

    Post by Shkar on Tue Jul 17, 2012 5:25 pm

    Have we exluded the possibility that the being pulling all the strings in Lordran is in fact Orcus?


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    Possible change in Havel lore section

    Post by Glogomog on Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:00 pm

    Quoting Havel Lore Section "Odd that the spell of a man who slew dragons is found closest to the only known dragon outside of Seath. A place where the clams are also found that inhabit Seath's domain. Is it to be hidden away so that none could challenge him as Havel did?"

    Seath wouldn't have left the spell in the care of the Everlasting Dragon. Seath betrayed his own kind and killed plenty of dragons himself, so the Everlasting Dragon would have been his enemy as well. If anything, the spell may have been put there to keep it safe from Seath by Havel or a follower once Havel began to hollow.
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    Re: There's more to them

    Post by PaPaSmVrf on Sun Aug 19, 2012 5:15 pm

    maybe... goin on a leg here, and if it has already been mentioned then sorry, but maybe the reason oscar was not able to complete his mission, or anyone else, is because of the time distortion. YOU, the chosen undead, are somehow either not affected by the time distortion, or you are affected in such a way that you can help others, recieve help, yet not fully contort time, and somehow oscar knew this. Does this make sense? sorry rookie here when it comes to lore, but this idea just hit me and clicked a few things in my head on why oscar was unable to complete his mission.


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    Re: There's more to them

    Post by Federally on Sun Aug 19, 2012 6:36 pm

    PaPaSmVrf wrote:maybe... goin on a leg here, and if it has already been mentioned then sorry, but maybe the reason oscar was not able to complete his mission, or anyone else, is because of the time distortion. YOU, the chosen undead, are somehow either not affected by the time distortion, or you are affected in such a way that you can help others, recieve help, yet not fully contort time, and somehow oscar knew this. Does this make sense? sorry rookie here when it comes to lore, but this idea just hit me and clicked a few things in my head on why oscar was unable to complete his mission.

    Okay i'll try and clear a few things up for you. For one, the time distortion plays a key role in everything. It's the reason why we can attribute many things to Oscar and know he has gone many places and killed many people we interact with. You also need to remember, there is more then 1 chosen undead. The multiplayer aspects and singleplayer aspects are tied in together closely and the time distortion allows player characters to interact even though they are both chosen undead.

    More evidence to support this is Solaire. If you figure out how to help him survive Lost Izalith you can bring him to fight Gwyn, and if you use him to kill Gwyn he links the fire in his own world.

    So in summary, Oscar failed because he was simply incapable of completing the task. So he then returned to the asylum to find someone he believed could complete the pilgrimage and free them.


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    Re: There's more to them

    Post by Eolan on Mon Aug 20, 2012 6:05 pm

    Federally wrote:



    More evidence to support this is Solaire. If you figure out how to help him survive Lost Izalith you can bring him to fight Gwyn, and if you use him to kill Gwyn he links the fire in his own world.

    .


    Out of interest how is that communicated to the player in game?
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    Re: There's more to them

    Post by Shkar on Mon Aug 20, 2012 6:12 pm

    Eolan wrote:
    Federally wrote:



    More evidence to support this is Solaire. If you figure out how to help him survive Lost Izalith you can bring him to fight Gwyn, and if you use him to kill Gwyn he links the fire in his own world.

    .


    Out of interest how is that communicated to the player in game?



    Via a Miyazaki to the face. He personally said it in an interview, IIRC.


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    Re: There's more to them

    Post by Eolan on Mon Aug 20, 2012 6:16 pm

    Oh right id heard that before i was just wondering whether that was in any way demonstrable in game? might have to remind everyone miyazaki said that in the extinguish bonfire thingy.... happy
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    Re: There's more to them

    Post by Cyan-Hawk on Mon Aug 20, 2012 10:48 pm

    Holy crap, things changed around here. This site is so much better looking now. I also love this thread here. All these theories and information, it's just tremendous. happy


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    Re: There's more to them

    Post by Federally on Mon Aug 20, 2012 10:52 pm

    Yeah Doughy has done a great job putting this together


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    Re: There's more to them

    Post by Federally on Mon Aug 20, 2012 10:56 pm

    Eolan wrote:Oh right id heard that before i was just wondering whether that was in any way demonstrable in game? might have to remind everyone miyazaki said that in the extinguish bonfire thingy.... happy

    It is demonstrated in game, well not the Solaire bit but the time warp. Dark Souls isn't like other games where the multiplayer elements are separate from single player. As far as the game world and lore is concerned its all inter connected. So the simple fact that player characters can co exist while all being 'chosen undead' proves the time distortion allows each of us to chose our own end and this applies to the other undead npcs as well.


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    Re: There's more to them

    Post by Cyan-Hawk on Mon Aug 20, 2012 11:00 pm

    Federally wrote:Yeah Doughy has done a great job putting this together
    It's amazing. I used to be part of this site awhile back but after I
    1000G the game I felt it was time to move onto other games. I was gone
    so long they got rid of my old account lol. But with the DLC coming out
    soon I'm feeling that need to light some bonfires and endure a thousand
    more deaths. I really love the compilation of all of Glyph's secrets
    into a new thread. I tried my hand at helping him and others out but I
    feel I wasn't much help.

    Anyway, speaking of DLC maybe you or
    someone else can tell me some of the new theories based on what has been
    seen on the trailers. I'm very interested in it. Apparently Artorias'
    ring will play a bigger part in the game.


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    Re: There's more to them

    Post by Eolan on Tue Aug 21, 2012 6:05 am

    Federally wrote:
    Eolan wrote:Oh right id heard that before i was just wondering whether that was in any way demonstrable in game? might have to remind everyone miyazaki said that in the extinguish bonfire thingy.... happy

    It is demonstrated in game, well not the Solaire bit but the time warp. Dark Souls isn't like other games where the multiplayer elements are separate from single player. As far as the game world and lore is concerned its all inter connected. So the simple fact that player characters can co exist while all being 'chosen undead' proves the time distortion allows each of us to chose our own end and this applies to the other undead npcs as well.

    Im asking if solaire linking his bonfire is tangibly demonstrated in game. I understand the time flow idea, im asking does solaire change in ng+ if you took him all the way to gwyn?
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    Re: There's more to them

    Post by DoughGuy on Tue Aug 21, 2012 6:25 am

    There is no in game proof. But there doesnt need to be. If the director wants us to find the story he gains nothing by lying.


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    Re: There's more to them

    Post by Eolan on Tue Aug 21, 2012 7:14 am

    Im really not accusing him of lying, im trying to work out whether rynns "unstable bonfire" message has any merit. One of the theories is overloading the flame. Could require solaire that's all.
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    Re: There's more to them

    Post by Orango19 on Tue Aug 21, 2012 1:22 pm

    Eolan wrote:

    Im asking if solaire linking his bonfire is tangibly demonstrated in game. I understand the time flow idea, im asking does solaire change in ng+ if you took him all the way to gwyn?

    Nah, there isn't any. The director said the Solaire's ending linking the fire is what HE likes to think; since Solaire is one of his favorite characters, so he tried to imagine the best ending for him. (Solaire becoming a huge "sun" by linking the fire).
    However, if you hate his homo armor and voice, you can just think he died in the explosion after you linked the fire; or that he was your first victim after you became the Dark Lord as he tried to prevent you from going outside the Kiln.
    Solaire linking the fire is not cameo; it's just the director's opinion.
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    Re: There's more to them

    Post by PaPaSmVrf on Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:32 pm

    Federally wrote:
    PaPaSmVrf wrote:maybe... goin on a leg here, and if it has already been mentioned then sorry, but maybe the reason oscar was not able to complete his mission, or anyone else, is because of the time distortion. YOU, the chosen undead, are somehow either not affected by the time distortion, or you are affected in such a way that you can help others, recieve help, yet not fully contort time, and somehow oscar knew this. Does this make sense? sorry rookie here when it comes to lore, but this idea just hit me and clicked a few things in my head on why oscar was unable to complete his mission.

    Okay i'll try and clear a few things up for you. For one, the time distortion plays a key role in everything. It's the reason why we can attribute many things to Oscar and know he has gone many places and killed many people we interact with. You also need to remember, there is more then 1 chosen undead. The multiplayer aspects and singleplayer aspects are tied in together closely and the time distortion allows player characters to interact even though they are both chosen undead.

    More evidence to support this is Solaire. If you figure out how to help him survive Lost Izalith you can bring him to fight Gwyn, and if you use him to kill Gwyn he links the fire in his own world.

    So in summary, Oscar failed because he was simply incapable of completing the task. So he then returned to the asylum to find someone he believed could complete the pilgrimage and free them.

    Thanks for the clearup!


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    Re: There's more to them

    Post by bendtosquares on Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:38 am

    Just curious really, been reading the recent posts about Solaire and I have been well aware of being able to summon him before but haven't really thought of its significance and was wondering if anyone could clear this up for me.

    Because Solaire's summon sign is present in the Kiln, do we therefore assume that he had been able to collect his own lord vessel and the lord souls at some point in his own world? Or how does his summoning work exactly?
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    Re: There's more to them

    Post by DoughGuy on Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:40 am

    he has the lv yes. he exists in his own world.


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    Re: There's more to them

    Post by Federally on Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:44 am

    bendtosquares wrote:Just curious really, been reading the recent posts about Solaire and I have been well aware of being able to summon him before but haven't really thought of its significance and was wondering if anyone could clear this up for me.

    Because Solaire's summon sign is present in the Kiln, do we therefore assume that he had been able to collect his own lord vessel and the lord souls at some point in his own world? Or how does his summoning work exactly?

    Summoning a player requires them to be where they place their sign in their own world. So its safe to assume the same would be required of Solaire. Also Solaire dies in Izalith if you don't save him, this also requires the Lord Vessel.


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    Re: There's more to them

    Post by ViralEnsign_ on Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:50 am

    Dough tell me about Ciaran!


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