Forest Farming

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    daveautomatica

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    Forest Farming

    Post by daveautomatica on Mon Mar 26, 2012 11:50 am

    does anyone else do it respectfully?
    the people im playing with are usually the same way. im not sure where all the resent comes from.
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    Re: Forest Farming

    Post by Serious_Much on Mon Mar 26, 2012 12:01 pm

    Forest Ganking = bad

    Do you just wait for invasions on your own though? Id say thats a positive for you big grin


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    Re: Forest Farming

    Post by reim0027 on Mon Mar 26, 2012 1:33 pm

    I tried, but the mentality there just pissed me off. It was hard to do any honorable duels, with 99% of the people ganking you.


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    Re: Forest Farming

    Post by aceluby on Mon Mar 26, 2012 1:43 pm

    I will occasionally drop a sign down to farm in the forest. If I do I make sure to follow 'some' rules. No chain BS, no spawn ganking, bow if appropriate, don't taunt after winning. I'll do this and invade in-between when I want to do some free-for-all PvP.


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    Re: Forest Farming

    Post by Forum Pirate on Mon Mar 26, 2012 1:50 pm

    You can farm all you want but don't pretend there's any honor in it.

    Either stop farming or stop trying to soothe you conscience and accept you actions and what they say about who you are.

    Again play how ever youd like, its your right and i respect it, but try to stop lying to yourself, its not healthy.


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    Re: Forest Farming

    Post by aceluby on Mon Mar 26, 2012 1:53 pm

    Forum Pirate wrote:You can farm all you want but don't pretend there's any honor in it.

    Either stop farming or stop trying to soothe you conscience and accept you actions and what they say about who you are.

    Again play how ever youd like, its your right and i respect it, but try to stop lying to yourself, its not healthy.

    Was this directed at me?


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    Re: Forest Farming

    Post by Forum Pirate on Mon Mar 26, 2012 2:11 pm

    All farmers. I'm not insulting you, in case it came off that way.

    But its in no way fair or honorable to farm in a pvp environment. You are using numbers to boost your strength and intentionally picking on players who are weaker than your group.

    Thats called bullying. It would be better to admit that part of yourself and stop feeling guilty about it than to say you're "honorably dishonourable" so it doesn't sound so bad.


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    Re: Forest Farming

    Post by callipygias on Mon Mar 26, 2012 2:25 pm

    Forum Pirate wrote:You can farm all you want but don't pretend there's any honor in it.

    Either stop farming or stop trying to soothe you conscience and accept you actions and what they say about who you are.

    Again play how ever youd like, its your right and i respect it, but try to stop lying to yourself, its not healthy.

    I'll +1 this post if you'll change "farm" to "invade."

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    Re: Forest Farming

    Post by aprilmanha on Mon Mar 26, 2012 2:36 pm

    I dunno I like invading, but always wait for the player I invaded to clear their area and heal up first. Its only fair after all.

    It like what's the point in playing if you go for the cheap win? You get nothing for it and people will just think less of you.
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    Re: Forest Farming

    Post by skarekrow13 on Mon Mar 26, 2012 4:24 pm

    I'd say that if you want to forest farm then just be aware of the culture there. If you're waiting alone a lot of hunters will duel you. Others will wait for help or use cheap tactics and aren't much better than group farmers. If you're obviously by yourself though I don't think there's an issue.

    When you're with someone else in the forest as host (or white/gold phantom) any hunter who's invaded for longer than five minutes assumes you're asking for a guerrilla mentality. I have a good anecdote for how the forest works.

    I invaded a guy and a white phantom. As there were two of them I was worried about them ganging up as I was alone at the time (if I see another person coming in via message I always run in as 2v2 is fair). They both approached at a run so I went guerrilla and had my friendly neighborhood trees murder them. I invaded again but they must have learned their lesson and did a deforestation mission. During my initial recon I discovered the trees were all killed and they knew where to look for me from invasion one. Rather than run to another guerrilla spot I stood and fought. To my surprise the phantom approached me alone and we had a duel. As I am not used to seeing rapiers in the forest and was watching my back I was pretty well destroyed. I invade the group a third time and decide to see if they really are honorable. We meet in the same arena and I trust that there's a duel this time. I know the move set for the rapier so I take a risk that he'll be aggressive and wham.....I hit one of two parry/ripostes I've ever gotten. Dead phantom. I recover just in time to roll away from the mura swipe of the host trying to blindside me. Lucky for me I had been paying attention to the screen as i knew there was another hunter who just came in. Perfect movie moment, I am facing the blue guy and he has his back turned. It turns out Mr. Blue was hiding in the trees watching the fight and approached as the host tried to cheap shot me. I start slowly backing so the host focuses on me. The host gets backstabbed and both of us hunters go full out as soon as he stands. The lessons are that: 1. It is always assumed you aren't on the up and up. 2. When it looks like you might be you are still at the discretion of the rest of the participants to play along. 3. If you give a hint that you aren't honorable everything goes out the window.

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    Re: Forest Farming

    Post by Tolvo on Mon Mar 26, 2012 5:02 pm

    Pretty much as Skare and Forum have said. There was a reason we held an entire event around killing farmers after all haha.

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    Re: Forest Farming

    Post by VIcious72 on Mon Mar 26, 2012 7:12 pm

    daveautomatica wrote:does anyone else do it respectfully?
    the people im playing with are usually the same way. im not sure where all the resent comes from.

    The resentment comes from the fact that people use the moniker 'farmer' to justify their behavior.

    Imagine you're sitting in your home, and you have a couple of friends. You're watching tv, having some snacks, and just sitting around. Suddenly, someone breaks into your house.

    What should you do?

    If you listen to the invaders, you should politely offer a snack, not use any weapon/method the invader doesn't approve of, and 'fight fair.' Because, after all, you did invite the person to break into your house.

    Didn't you?

    Ultimately, it comes down to this: if no one invaded, you wouldn't have 'farmers.' In the whole farmer/invader debate, one of the people creates and perpetuates the 'problem.' The other one doesn't exist UNLESS someone invades.

    And it isn't the farmers. In life, as well as video games, people will be very quick to tell you how you should act when they're trying to take something from you.

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    Re: Forest Farming

    Post by callipygias on Mon Mar 26, 2012 7:40 pm

    Damn. Already used my +1. ^Seconded, though.^ Well said.
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    Re: Forest Farming

    Post by Dj-B-Man-Jr on Mon Mar 26, 2012 7:52 pm

    VIcious72 wrote:
    daveautomatica wrote:does anyone else do it respectfully?
    the people im playing with are usually the same way. im not sure where all the resent comes from.

    The resentment comes from the fact that people use the moniker 'farmer' to justify their behavior.

    Imagine you're sitting in your home, and you have a couple of friends. You're watching tv, having some snacks, and just sitting around. Suddenly, someone breaks into your house.

    What should you do?

    If you listen to the invaders, you should politely offer a snack, not use any weapon/method the invader doesn't approve of, and 'fight fair.' Because, after all, you did invite the person to break into your house.

    Didn't you?

    Ultimately, it comes down to this: if no one invaded, you wouldn't have 'farmers.' In the whole farmer/invader debate, one of the people creates and perpetuates the 'problem.' The other one doesn't exist UNLESS someone invades.

    And it isn't the farmers. In life, as well as video games, people will be very quick to tell you how you should act when they're trying to take something from you.

    What you just described was not farming. You described a co-op session being invaded. In Which you should, by all means, take out the invader without mercy.

    Farming is when a host summons a phantom or phantoms in a highly populated area (like the forest) to do nothing but gang up on invaders.
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    Re: Forest Farming

    Post by skarekrow13 on Mon Mar 26, 2012 8:25 pm

    That's true when an invader comes into someone playing the game's story. And yes in that case your analogy is perfect. I wouldn't hold it against the homeowners to bring a gun to a knife fight. What the covenant event was for is the people who wait on popular corners with their friends to jump on anyone that comes by. Going with your analogy, yup, I mighta been on my way to do something dastardly but that doesn't justify the muggers who were just looking for a victim either. In reality there's no good or evil in this scenario. Just a buncha people looking for a fight. For the spirit of your message though, there's also no fair or unfair within the confines of the game either. I know as an invader that TwoP exists as well as the black knight ax, havel's set etc. So why should I expect them not to be there when I show up? The game allows the host to summon phantoms. We've always been told there's strength in numbers right? So yeah, they're picking on someone who planned on picking on someone else. Which then bred players like me who pick on the guys who were picking on the guys who planned to pick on other guys. We're all in a violent symbiotic relationship where two wrongs still don't make a right but it sure is fun as hell.

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    Re: Forest Farming

    Post by reim0027 on Mon Mar 26, 2012 9:08 pm

    Except most hosts aren't picking on those who are picking on others. They wait for someone to spawn and gank them. Sometimes where they spawn. There's no symbiosis in that. There's no honor with that. There is only being an ***.

    Not talking about you, mind you. Just gankers who jump people ASAP.


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    Re: Forest Farming

    Post by callipygias on Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:00 pm

    skarekrow13 wrote: I mighta been on my way to do something dastardly but that doesn't justify the muggers who were just looking for a victim either.
    Back when I was pretty new to DkS I remember the time I finally made it past those damned archers to get to that bonfire and it wouldn't light. I can't remember why I was human except that I didn't really know better at the time, maybe. I CAN remember waiting for the invader, knowing I was going to lose and have to get past the harpoon archers again. I also remember wondering how he somehow snuck up behind me at the same time my body went rigid from his backstab. I'd assumed he'd spawn somewhere further in the castle.

    So I hate invaders. As far as I'm concerned I'm perfectly justified if I want to invite 10 friends over and wait for you to invade. I won't do it because I'm not that kind of person, but I'm as justified to do it as that invader was to sneak up and backstab me that time, which is to say completely justified. It's the way From expects the game to be played, so I don't complain.
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    Re: Forest Farming

    Post by Tolvo on Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:03 pm

    Yet there are also the lowest of the low farmers, most of them, that will summon people using RSS. RSS is for duelling, if they see it on the ground they summon the duellist, kill them, and taunt over your body. Everything else aside, how about this behaviour? These are people who are offering to duel and are killed by groups of farmers who are just killing for killing sake.

    Also, as a forest hunter if I see a person who doesn't know what they're doing in the forest, I let them live. Hell, I might drop something for them if they look like they're struggling with the NPC's. I'm there just to kill people who are there for PvP reasons, do you think I should get ganged up on because I'm nice to other people?
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    Re: Forest Farming

    Post by reim0027 on Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:06 pm

    You are in the minority here, and I applaud you.


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    Re: Forest Farming

    Post by skarekrow13 on Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:10 pm

    Agreed Calipygias. Invaders are intended to be malicious which I have to say that we all embrace even when we try to have "good" goals. We all have our reasons to play as we do. Reim, I wouldn't call that honorable either but everyone has different values. I'll explain my take on symbiosis a little more (but see your point). I shelvef this game about a month ago to play Skyrim which was collecting dust since it came out. I stuck with the forum because of the community. I saw the Forest of the Damned expanding and came out of retirement to get better at PvP. Without persons we feel are dishonorable we sometimes lose a purpose and eventually cease to exist. There is no hero without a villain first. No cause before calamity

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    Re: Forest Farming

    Post by reim0027 on Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:20 pm

    LOL, first thing I thought about was Matrix Reloaded - Merovingian's one real truth "Causality". I see your point. Without gankers, there wouldn't be as much incentive to go after them.


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    Re: Forest Farming

    Post by Tolvo on Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:22 pm

    I'd compare it to Rambo First blood, as the farmers stop existing and us Hunters have to rejoin society. Some duellist in full smough's with a lightning Zwei will call me a vagabond, then all hell will break loose! silly
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    Re: Forest Farming

    Post by Forum Pirate on Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:23 pm

    So play hollow or offline. The game isn't hard solo until ng++.

    Killing off duelists in 3v1s isn't justified. In random invasions yes but summoning with the rss or waiting in the forest/londo and killing people just looking for duels isn't cool.

    Its just as bad as the low lvl griefers, intentionally ruining someone elses innocent fun. Thats never justified.

    Again, random invasions arn't "innocent" and so both parties are justified in doing whatever it takes but no one is justified doing most of the crap that happens in the forest/dark londo.


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    Re: Forest Farming

    Post by aceluby on Tue Mar 27, 2012 2:15 pm

    If you're going to the forest as an invader and expecting duels you are setting yourself to be disappointed IMO. There are WAY better spots for duels, and even in those cases you have a very high likelihood of finding 3 farmers, RSS & spawn gankers, and TWOP/WOG abusers.

    When I invade in the forest or Anor Londo I expect 2 or 3v1. In fact, it's the reason why I go there and the reason why I play from both sides, they can both be fun (which is the point of the game, right?). An invader has to be smart, use the environment, separate the farmers, etc... A 'farmer' has to be careful of these tactics, not be overly aggressive, watch out for the 2nd and 3rd invader, protect the host... It's fun in it's own way that is different from other PvP hotspots.

    If you want fair duels join FC and leave the dastardly forest the way it was intended.


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