Linking Internal and External Lore: Norse, Arthurian, and Etymology in Dark Souls

    Share
    avatar
    skarekrow13
    Chat Moderator

    Posts : 10236
    Reputation : 410
    Join date : 2012-01-27
    Location : Ralph Wilson Stadium

    Re: Linking Internal and External Lore: Norse, Arthurian, and Etymology in Dark Souls

    Post by skarekrow13 on Sat Jun 30, 2012 8:43 pm

    Pris could definitely be hel. I likened the witch of izalith to loki earlier but Seath is intriguing as well. Good stuff

    avatar
    DoughGuy
    Duke's Archivist
    Duke's Archivist

    Posts : 11862
    Reputation : 319
    Join date : 2012-02-29
    Age : 23
    Location : The Bakery of Souls, Sydney

    Re: Linking Internal and External Lore: Norse, Arthurian, and Etymology in Dark Souls

    Post by DoughGuy on Sat Jun 30, 2012 8:53 pm

    The problem here is everyone betrayed Gwyn, so they're all Loki silly


    _________________
    There's more to them - Want to know why your favourite NPC is in lordran? Find out here.
    Farewell to my Noble Knights, while we lived we were mighty. May we meet again in the next game.
    The post that started the legend XD
    avatar
    skarekrow13
    Chat Moderator

    Posts : 10236
    Reputation : 410
    Join date : 2012-01-27
    Location : Ralph Wilson Stadium

    Re: Linking Internal and External Lore: Norse, Arthurian, and Etymology in Dark Souls

    Post by skarekrow13 on Sat Jun 30, 2012 8:55 pm

    Lol, pretty much. Arguments amongst gods are common in lore and it looks like Dark Souls is no exception


    Spurgun
    Chosen Undead
    Chosen Undead

    Posts : 5553
    Reputation : 119
    Join date : 2012-01-29
    Age : 20
    Location : Finland!

    Re: Linking Internal and External Lore: Norse, Arthurian, and Etymology in Dark Souls

    Post by Spurgun on Sun Jul 01, 2012 5:53 am

    Odin gave Hel to Hel. He as the one who made her the ruler of the realm.

    There isn’t really much about Jörmungandr, Lokis other son. He was the "world serpent" he was so long that he stretched around the earth and started eating his own tail. And the world would end when he let go of it. His arch enemy was Thor, Odins first son.
    avatar
    DissidentCitizen
    Casual
    Casual

    Posts : 36
    Reputation : 0
    Join date : 2012-06-30
    Location : The Deep South

    Re: Linking Internal and External Lore: Norse, Arthurian, and Etymology in Dark Souls

    Post by DissidentCitizen on Sun Jul 01, 2012 5:24 pm

    Re-reading The Divine Comedy in an attempt to connect it to DS lore. You know it has to be connected, right?


    _________________
    GT: TopBoost323

    Spurgun
    Chosen Undead
    Chosen Undead

    Posts : 5553
    Reputation : 119
    Join date : 2012-01-29
    Age : 20
    Location : Finland!

    Re: Linking Internal and External Lore: Norse, Arthurian, and Etymology in Dark Souls

    Post by Spurgun on Sun Jul 01, 2012 5:57 pm

    What is the divine comedy?
    avatar
    skarekrow13
    Chat Moderator

    Posts : 10236
    Reputation : 410
    Join date : 2012-01-27
    Location : Ralph Wilson Stadium

    Re: Linking Internal and External Lore: Norse, Arthurian, and Etymology in Dark Souls

    Post by skarekrow13 on Sun Jul 01, 2012 6:01 pm

    A story about hell that popularized the idea of tiers rather than a single general populace if I recall correctly. Only read excerpts of that. Can't wait to hear results


    Spurgun
    Chosen Undead
    Chosen Undead

    Posts : 5553
    Reputation : 119
    Join date : 2012-01-29
    Age : 20
    Location : Finland!

    Re: Linking Internal and External Lore: Norse, Arthurian, and Etymology in Dark Souls

    Post by Spurgun on Sun Jul 01, 2012 6:03 pm

    Where can you read it?
    avatar
    skarekrow13
    Chat Moderator

    Posts : 10236
    Reputation : 410
    Join date : 2012-01-27
    Location : Ralph Wilson Stadium

    Re: Linking Internal and External Lore: Norse, Arthurian, and Etymology in Dark Souls

    Post by skarekrow13 on Sun Jul 01, 2012 6:09 pm

    It's public on any number of sites and public domain so any method of download is legal I believe

    avatar
    skarekrow13
    Chat Moderator

    Posts : 10236
    Reputation : 410
    Join date : 2012-01-27
    Location : Ralph Wilson Stadium

    Re: Linking Internal and External Lore: Norse, Arthurian, and Etymology in Dark Souls

    Post by skarekrow13 on Sun Jul 01, 2012 6:12 pm

    I just looked on Amazon. About thirty listings, lol. Some charge for the privilege of it being translated. Many are free though. Anyone charging is a scam


    Spurgun
    Chosen Undead
    Chosen Undead

    Posts : 5553
    Reputation : 119
    Join date : 2012-01-29
    Age : 20
    Location : Finland!

    Re: Linking Internal and External Lore: Norse, Arthurian, and Etymology in Dark Souls

    Post by Spurgun on Sun Jul 01, 2012 6:16 pm

    Thanks.

    I’ll try to find more in the norse mythology, i was very interested in it before.
    avatar
    skarekrow13
    Chat Moderator

    Posts : 10236
    Reputation : 410
    Join date : 2012-01-27
    Location : Ralph Wilson Stadium

    Re: Linking Internal and External Lore: Norse, Arthurian, and Etymology in Dark Souls

    Post by skarekrow13 on Sun Jul 01, 2012 6:21 pm

    My personal favorite is the crows but that was a stretch. That's one of the pantheons I studied more when I was younger and I'm kinda empty unless something jogs my memory. It's always intrigued me though that most major religions have their main God as sun or lightning driven. Guess we know what man respects most I guess. I might have to dig into Egyptian at some point. Thought of Gwyn as Odin or zeus already but not ra. The sun connection might be just as pronounced as lightning

    avatar
    DissidentCitizen
    Casual
    Casual

    Posts : 36
    Reputation : 0
    Join date : 2012-06-30
    Location : The Deep South

    Re: Linking Internal and External Lore: Norse, Arthurian, and Etymology in Dark Souls

    Post by DissidentCitizen on Sun Jul 01, 2012 6:30 pm

    I have a translation by Mark Musa that is fantastic. Already in the first couple of Cantos I can see (maybe) connections to Gwynevere, and Oscar and there is also a character named Beatrice that plays a huge roll.


    _________________
    GT: TopBoost323
    avatar
    skarekrow13
    Chat Moderator

    Posts : 10236
    Reputation : 410
    Join date : 2012-01-27
    Location : Ralph Wilson Stadium

    Re: Linking Internal and External Lore: Norse, Arthurian, and Etymology in Dark Souls

    Post by skarekrow13 on Sun Jul 01, 2012 6:33 pm

    Damn you. Off to put it on my phone's kindle app now

    avatar
    DissidentCitizen
    Casual
    Casual

    Posts : 36
    Reputation : 0
    Join date : 2012-06-30
    Location : The Deep South

    Re: Linking Internal and External Lore: Norse, Arthurian, and Etymology in Dark Souls

    Post by DissidentCitizen on Sun Jul 01, 2012 6:36 pm

    Like everything else that's been listed here, the connection to DS is a mixture of several things but TDC is looking like an influence.


    _________________
    GT: TopBoost323
    avatar
    DissidentCitizen
    Casual
    Casual

    Posts : 36
    Reputation : 0
    Join date : 2012-06-30
    Location : The Deep South

    Re: Linking Internal and External Lore: Norse, Arthurian, and Etymology in Dark Souls

    Post by DissidentCitizen on Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:39 am

    Also noticed something else: from the intro, the VO says "... But then there was fire." or something to that effect.

    Do you suppose there is a Prometheus-style character somewhere in the DS lore? Who actually gave fire to the world?


    _________________
    GT: TopBoost323
    avatar
    DoughGuy
    Duke's Archivist
    Duke's Archivist

    Posts : 11862
    Reputation : 319
    Join date : 2012-02-29
    Age : 23
    Location : The Bakery of Souls, Sydney

    Re: Linking Internal and External Lore: Norse, Arthurian, and Etymology in Dark Souls

    Post by DoughGuy on Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:47 am

    Haha Shkar and i had a big debate about that. We couldnt figure it out.


    _________________
    There's more to them - Want to know why your favourite NPC is in lordran? Find out here.
    Farewell to my Noble Knights, while we lived we were mighty. May we meet again in the next game.
    The post that started the legend XD
    avatar
    DissidentCitizen
    Casual
    Casual

    Posts : 36
    Reputation : 0
    Join date : 2012-06-30
    Location : The Deep South

    Re: Linking Internal and External Lore: Norse, Arthurian, and Etymology in Dark Souls

    Post by DissidentCitizen on Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:39 am

    I mean, you'd have to think so, right? In that case he/she would be trapped on a rock somewhere where the giant Crow comes and pecks out its liver every day only to have it regenerate again in the morning.

    So, the dude's liver is also afflicted with the Dark Sign.


    _________________
    GT: TopBoost323
    avatar
    DissidentCitizen
    Casual
    Casual

    Posts : 36
    Reputation : 0
    Join date : 2012-06-30
    Location : The Deep South

    Re: Linking Internal and External Lore: Norse, Arthurian, and Etymology in Dark Souls

    Post by DissidentCitizen on Mon Jul 02, 2012 4:04 pm

    Divine Comedy connection:

    Dante the Poet refers to himself as the "Chosen Vessel" one who, granted sufficient grace for his journey through hell, will strengthen the faith of Man.

    In Canto II, I can maybe see a parallel to Gwynevere. Dante the Pilgrim is lost and wandering in a "Dark Wood." The Virgin Mary (Gwynevere?) looks down from heaven and takes pity on the Pilgrim. She sets in motion a series of events that culminate with Beatrice journeying to Limbo to see the poet Virgil (Oscar?) and seek his assistance in locating Dante the Pilgrim. Virgil then locates Dante and acts as his guide through hell.

    I'm maybe readin too much into this but Oscar of Astora definitely guides you through various places in Lordran and once you reach Anor Londo Gwynevere/ Gwyndolin definitely seems to indicate that they'd set events in motion that brought you to them.

    I'll keep reading...
    avatar
    skarekrow13
    Chat Moderator

    Posts : 10236
    Reputation : 410
    Join date : 2012-01-27
    Location : Ralph Wilson Stadium

    Re: Linking Internal and External Lore: Norse, Arthurian, and Etymology in Dark Souls

    Post by skarekrow13 on Mon Jul 02, 2012 4:28 pm

    Beatrice to Limbo? Beatrice is the only one besides Artorias who is confirmed to have been in the Abyss. I just finished the first Canto last night and no obvious connections from what I could tell but the story really hasn't begun at that point.

    avatar
    DissidentCitizen
    Casual
    Casual

    Posts : 36
    Reputation : 0
    Join date : 2012-06-30
    Location : The Deep South

    Re: Linking Internal and External Lore: Norse, Arthurian, and Etymology in Dark Souls

    Post by DissidentCitizen on Mon Jul 02, 2012 5:04 pm

    Right. Canto I is like an over view of the entirety of the Divine Comedy. Canto II actually begins the first portion of Inferno.

    But Beatrice, right? That's pretty neat.

    Also just read this in the third canto describing Charon the ferryman:

    "...whose eyes were set in glowing rings of fire."

    Sounds like the Dark Sign to me. And the eyes of the Hollows throughout Lordran.

    Also, the first group of sinners that Virgil and Dante meet inside hell are those who lived neither a good nor bad life; those who refused to act when they were alive. They're not actually in the city of hell itself but outside it.

    To me that description sounds very much like the Crestfallen Warrior who, plagued with fear and indecision, refuses to act and simply sits at Firelink Shrine.
    avatar
    skarekrow13
    Chat Moderator

    Posts : 10236
    Reputation : 410
    Join date : 2012-01-27
    Location : Ralph Wilson Stadium

    Re: Linking Internal and External Lore: Norse, Arthurian, and Etymology in Dark Souls

    Post by skarekrow13 on Mon Jul 02, 2012 6:27 pm

    Or even the burg. They're just warriors hanging out. No exceptional allegiance defined one way or the other. New Londo might be even better for persons. They didn't join a military and they didn't or couldn't act to save the city.

    avatar
    Tolvo
    Town Crier
    Town Crier

    Posts : 13287
    Reputation : 542
    Join date : 2012-02-01
    Age : 24
    Location : The Forest, Illinois

    Re: Linking Internal and External Lore: Norse, Arthurian, and Etymology in Dark Souls

    Post by Tolvo on Mon Jul 02, 2012 8:26 pm

    So I was talking with Dan in the Skype Chat about Gwyn's relation to the Serpents, his chest plate featuring one similar to Ornstein's armor representing a lion. And I remembered something.

    Arabian, and Islamic beliefs. See, in their older views they believed in a giant serpent that was massive and seemingly endless in length. It fears only one being and that is the creator, Allah. Now, this Serpent would swallow everything, all of existence if not for Allah. So it is associated with gluttony. The place it lives in is considered a void, a limitless abyss where it reigns supreme and no being can traverse. This serpent is named Falak, and exists below the world in a realm below the great fish Bahomet that holds the world on top of it. So, it is below a lake. The realm it is under, is the Realm of fire. So it exists below a place where fire reigns supreme.

    Anyone else already notice this?
    avatar
    DissidentCitizen
    Casual
    Casual

    Posts : 36
    Reputation : 0
    Join date : 2012-06-30
    Location : The Deep South

    Re: Linking Internal and External Lore: Norse, Arthurian, and Etymology in Dark Souls

    Post by DissidentCitizen on Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:39 pm

    No, I never noticed but that's legitimate. Seems the guys at FROM are well versed in pretty much all forms of mythology from around the globe.

    Good find.
    avatar
    Tolvo
    Town Crier
    Town Crier

    Posts : 13287
    Reputation : 542
    Join date : 2012-02-01
    Age : 24
    Location : The Forest, Illinois

    Re: Linking Internal and External Lore: Norse, Arthurian, and Etymology in Dark Souls

    Post by Tolvo on Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:51 pm

    English Translation by Muhammad Shameem, Mohammad Wali Raazi and Muhammad Taqi Usmani:
    Say, “I seek refuge with the Lord of the daybreak from the evil of everything He has created, and from the evil of the dark night when it penetrates, and from the evil of the women who blow on the knots, and from the evil of an envier when he envies. “
    English Translation by Mohammed Marmaduke Pickthall:
    Say: I seek refuge in the Lord of Daybreak From the evil of that which He created; From the evil of the darkness when it is intense, And from the evil of malignant witchcraft, And from the evil of the envier when he envieth.
    English Translation by Yusuf Ali: .
    Say: I seek refuge with the Lord of the Dawn From the mischief of created things; From the mischief of Darkness as it overspreads; From the mischief of those who practise secret arts; And from the mischief of the envious one as he practises envy.

    Different translations also of Al-Falaq from the Qu'ran, named after Falak the serpent.

    Sponsored content

    Re: Linking Internal and External Lore: Norse, Arthurian, and Etymology in Dark Souls

    Post by Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Mon Jun 26, 2017 9:17 pm