Difficulty in the souls series

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    Difficulty

    [ 17 ]
    57% [57%] 
    [ 11 ]
    37% [37%] 
    [ 1 ]
    3% [3%] 
    [ 1 ]
    3% [3%] 

    Total Votes: 30
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    ARSP
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    Difficulty in the souls series

    Post by ARSP on Tue Mar 20, 2012 1:49 am

    I would guys and girls to really think about this question before you answer. If from Software made another souls game would you rather it be easier to attract more players for more PvP and PvE? Would you want it to stay the same? or, would you rather it be harder so that you can have more bragging rights if and when you win? PS the fourth option is a joke


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    Re: Difficulty in the souls series

    Post by Reaperfan on Tue Mar 20, 2012 2:20 am

    I voted for increasing the difficulty, though I will admit it should only be increased by a bit. These games use their difficulty as a way to convey the experience of loneliness in the atmosphere and triumph that comes from conquering said difficulty in a way that not many other games can do. I feel though, that the game as it was before 1.05 (less souls per enemy, no humanity/homeward bones after boss fights/not as easy access to Twinkling titanite) did a better job at conveying this. I will admit that this is probably because I played the game from release, and didn't start after the improvements, but PvE feels a bit "hand-holdy" now to me. Things like the Dino room in Lost Izalith and the Tomb of the Giants were much more rewarding to conquer back then, though I will say they definitely needed some amount of tweaking.


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    Re: Difficulty in the souls series

    Post by Grey-Ronin on Tue Mar 20, 2012 2:50 am

    I voted for it's fine as is.

    Lost Izalith was hell before the current update! I think I died around a hundred times going through there the first time. Those dame Zombie legs could spot you from miles away.

    I agree as well that the game feels really easy now after the update, but think that's more a result of hundreds of hours of experience rather than the changes making it really easy. Most of the changes in 1.05 are very reasonable and make a lot of sense. The one change that I think went over board is the nerfing of the Balder Knights. They are a cake walk now.
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    Re: Difficulty in the souls series

    Post by Rynoa on Tue Mar 20, 2012 4:48 am

    I voted fine as it is.
    The game feels easier now because we know it, if they were to increase the difficulty further I don't know I would make it through silly
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    Re: Difficulty in the souls series

    Post by aceluby on Tue Mar 20, 2012 10:21 am

    I liked the difficulty pre and post patch and think it's about on par w/ DeS difficulty. If they keep it right around there I will be a happy camper.


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    Re: Difficulty in the souls series

    Post by Forum Pirate on Tue Mar 20, 2012 10:28 am

    You know how long the flame lurk took me 1st time? 2 weeks, 3 tries a day. I miss that.

    Bring on the BP bosses!

    Kidding about the BP bosses, Imaging BP super O scares the crap out of me.


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    Re: Difficulty in the souls series

    Post by Yukon on Tue Mar 20, 2012 11:39 am

    I felt like there was a difficulty drop in dark souls after playing demons, I'd like to see it either stay as it is or get harder. I think there are plenty of people to PVP and PVE with and I don't need another brown hand holding game. the souls series have been the only games to keep my attention for a few years now, i think they would suffer from a difficulty drop.


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    Re: Difficulty in the souls series

    Post by BLA1NE on Tue Mar 20, 2012 1:18 pm

    I don't think 1.05 really nerfed the game, just improved it by cutting out most of the grind. With experience, anyone can beat the game at any level. But on my first playthrough, I did have to grind for more levels in places before I was able to progress. With the amount of souls mobs and bosses drop now, it hasn't really made the game easier, just cut out most of the grind for new players.

    I voted to make the series harder!

    I don't really see how they could do that, though. Making mobs and bosses hit harder would, in my opinion, just make the game more frustrating. Getting OHK'ed by anything is not fun, and not really hard, it's just annoying.

    I think From should nerf the shields. No 100% phys block, less stability, more unblockable attacks. But that's probably not fair for me to ask, since I haven't really used shields for a long time now! I pulled out my heater against Firesage a few days ago to see what it used to be like using a shield, and was a bit disappointed that I could completely block his huge downward hits unscathed, and block most of the damage from his heat wave attacks. Made me realize just how easy the game can be using shields.

    But for those who already don't use shields, I don't see how From could make the game harder. Improved AI, I guess. More acrobatic mobs with more varied move-sets. Also, the level design could make the game harder--more areas like the Capra boss fight. I'm not sure I'd like that, but it would make the game harder! Mix up mobs more, I guess. Most of the time you're fighting one type of mob at a time, so it's easy to deal with it. But if nimble mobs were mixed-in with hard-hitting mobs more often, if would become more complicated and challenging to deal with them.

    I guess there's a few things From could do to make the games harder still!


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    Re: Difficulty in the souls series

    Post by Serious_Much on Tue Mar 20, 2012 1:22 pm

    I vote harder.

    I mean, while it's getting publicised as a game for the "Elite" it's completely false, the game is manageable. For any kind of gamer to be honest.

    The issue is that experienced souls players could most likely breeze a new version if it had similar mechanics. I experienced this when I played through demon's. Yeah it was hard, so i had to concentrate, but beyond that because i was used to the gameplay (except you have a godlike roll but no poise) i managed easily, I probably had more trouble with the levels themselves than the bosses.


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    Re: Difficulty in the souls series

    Post by ARSP on Tue Mar 20, 2012 1:56 pm

    BLA1NE wrote:I don't think 1.05 really nerfed the game, just improved it by cutting out most of the grind. With experience, anyone can beat the game at any level. But on my first playthrough, I did have to grind for more levels in places before I was able to progress. With the amount of souls mobs and bosses drop now, it hasn't really made the game easier, just cut out most of the grind for new players.

    I voted to make the series harder!

    I don't really see how they could do that, though. Making mobs and bosses hit harder would, in my opinion, just make the game more frustrating. Getting OHK'ed by anything is not fun, and not really hard, it's just annoying.

    I think From should nerf the shields. No 100% phys block, less stability, more unblockable attacks. But that's probably not fair for me to ask, since I haven't really used shields for a long time now! I pulled out my heater against Firesage a few days ago to see what it used to be like using a shield, and was a bit disappointed that I could completely block his huge downward hits unscathed, and block most of the damage from his heat wave attacks. Made me realize just how easy the game can be using shields.

    But for those who already don't use shields, I don't see how From could make the game harder. Improved AI, I guess. More acrobatic mobs with more varied move-sets. Also, the level design could make the game harder--more areas like the Capra boss fight. I'm not sure I'd like that, but it would make the game harder! Mix up mobs more, I guess. Most of the time you're fighting one type of mob at a time, so it's easy to deal with it. But if nimble mobs were mixed-in with hard-hitting mobs more often, if would become more complicated and challenging to deal with them.

    I guess there's a few things From could do to make the games harder still!

    They actually do mix the mobs sometimes. In the catacombs you are attacked by ranged enemies as well as the little ankle biters. When you are in anor Londo before the O&S boss fight you have to deal with two hard hitting Giants and risk getting shot by the Black Night archer I admit that I have faced the same time of enemy a lot.

    If using a shield is a big problem for you then I would reccomend the cracked wooden shield it only blocks 65% of damage and it has poor stability and Blaine you have to remember this not everyone is as skilled with dodging as you are it takes a lot of time to get used to it. And A shield helps out a lot. In order to get a shield with really good stability you have to upgrade them out to the max or you have to equip a black Iron shield (which I do) the only small shields (i am going by if the equip load is 3.0 or less) that block 100% damage are the tower kite and the heater shields and they don't have too good stability. But you cant rely on a shield the entire game because if your stamina is low or if the boss or enemy is powerful like Havel they can go right through you shield and you still take a lot of damage. If your shield gets hit it costs stamina so if your shield gets hit then you may not be able to regenerate enough stamina to recover.

    In my case I can't block the Giants in Anor Londo because they swing their weapons twice and I can never have the stamina to stop from getting knocked on my back. I am not trying to be mean with this little argument I just want you to think about it. Although I am all for harder Darksouls. And I will also admit that a powerful shield make some bosses a joke like Sif or Gwyn

    Maybe Darksouls should come with a Xtra Hardmode for enthusiasts like you and Serious_Much big grin


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    Re: Difficulty in the souls series

    Post by BLA1NE on Tue Mar 20, 2012 2:16 pm

    I know all that, that's why I was saying shields need to be nerfed! I was talking about ways of making the game harder, after all, and all your arguments are reinforcing my point!

    As it is now, I'm pretty sure if you just drop your shield in between those huge hits and bring it back up just in time to block, you won't run out of stamina. That's how I used to do it before I ditched them altogether, don't remember an enemy that gave me problems with that...


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    Re: Difficulty in the souls series

    Post by Serious_Much on Tue Mar 20, 2012 2:20 pm

    ARSP, with a base eagle shield you can block 2 attacks from the giants in anor without even putting your shield down.

    but xtra hard mode? thing is with that is that it makes the difficulty cheap. It's the same as when you make things harder in other games by setting them to it and having an instant difficulty increase by just taking less damage before death and enemies taking longer to kill.

    However in Dark Souls, difficulty is earned. It is attained and develops in natural progression through subsequent NG pluses, not just an on/off switch, which is why dark soul's difficulty is amazing beyond it's naturally high level to begin with


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    Re: Difficulty in the souls series

    Post by ARSP on Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:01 pm

    Serious_Much wrote:ARSP, with a base eagle shield you can block 2 attacks from the giants in anor without even putting your shield down.

    but xtra hard mode? thing is with that is that it makes the difficulty cheap. It's the same as when you make things harder in other games by setting them to it and having an instant difficulty increase by just taking less damage before death and enemies taking longer to kill.

    However in Dark Souls, difficulty is earned. It is attained and develops in natural progression through subsequent NG pluses, not just an on/off switch, which is why dark soul's difficulty is amazing beyond it's naturally high level to begin with

    Fair enough I was wrong just don't rub it in.


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    Re: Difficulty in the souls series

    Post by befowler on Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:04 pm

    I'd randomize the mobs more. Part of what makes online play harder than just straight PvE is the unpredictability and inventiveness of human enemies. PvE is basically just an elaborate obstacle course, hard at times sure but ultimately predictable and therefore controllable. If there were a mechanism that randomized monster locations within a level or even sometimes moved them around between levels to the extent consistent with the storyline the game would be harder and also have even more replayability. Pinwheel might not be such a joke if a few skeleton hounds sometimes wandered in from the tomb. I think the gravelord covenant in particular best mimics this effect, but having it built right into PvE would be fun.

    Also, the multiple bonfire waypoints make the game generally easier or at least less punishing than DeS. Particularly the case in NG+ and beyond when OHKOs start to pile up. You also don't have to worry about losing hp in hollow form, or multiple deaths messing around with your world tendency.


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