My warning to new players

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    Yarxov
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    My warning to new players

    Post by Yarxov on Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:08 am

    This game is hard, it really is, from the social standards of gaming, this game is hard. It does not hold your hand. It does not coddle you. But whatever you do, resist the temptation to look up videos, or level runs on the wiki, it is helpful, true enough, but it is one, massive spoiler.
    It's like watching a scary movie, and having your friend say "Oh theres a [Insert item] right around the corner, then _____happens and ___ does __ to escape, and THEN..[etc]"
    It will still be okay to see, but you saw it coming and knew it was there, thus highly diminishing the overall experience. They don't make clear wrapping paper for a reason.

    So, if you are new to Lordran, welcome, but please, for your own sake, avoid the wiki until you have beaten the game atleast once. Asking for help here on the forums is fine, usually we are nice and let you discover things on your own, videos don't care and are there to feed those too weak to take a risk.

    I ruined my experience because of this. In Demon's Souls I constantly used the wiki. I had seen maps, and tutorials, I looked up 50% of the bosses before I got to them.. The game was still fun, one of the best I have played, but those first levels where I had absolutely no idea what I was doing, were the best.

    So, recap,
    for new players:

    Wiki :evil:
    Forums for Help happy
    Videos/ tutorials :evil:
    You have been warned.

    It is true though, that some may not care about the depth. They want to play through it for it's gameplay, and master it as quickly as possible. If this is what you prefer, have at it. It is preference, and I am simply speaking from my personal experience. It won't ruin it at all, the game is great from any angle but I can assure you, the atmosphere of this game is worth the effort.


    Last edited by Yarxov on Fri Mar 16, 2012 3:38 am; edited 2 times in total


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    Re: My warning to new players

    Post by Reaperfan on Thu Mar 15, 2012 3:33 am

    +1 Reputation. This man speaks wisdom equivalent to a great sage.


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    Re: My warning to new players

    Post by Darkson on Thu Mar 15, 2012 3:59 am

    This is SO VERY VERY VERY TRUE and I think it should have its own page on the wiki sidebar just under this title "warning to new players" or something or whatever, I don't care, just put it somewhere where it is as obvious and recognizable and accessible as possible to new players!!!

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    Re: My warning to new players

    Post by Deadpool on Thu Mar 15, 2012 4:33 am

    Which is why I'm asking for tips and help on here happy


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    Re: My warning to new players

    Post by LittleLuden on Thu Mar 15, 2012 6:51 am

    i agree with you in the point that lose some of the experience when using walkthroughs on youtube or the written ones in the wiki, but on the other hand, this will be balanced by the fact that you digging deeper and deeper in this world besides actually playing the game. it can be very entertaining to search for answers and solutions on the web (even for the price of spoilers), this can even boost your fun with it. it is then of course not the unexpected that blows you away while playing, but it is the whole package of research, playing, sharing thoughts in forums, etc.. it is a big world, and to me it seems that different ways of conquering it must not necessarily mean more or less fun.


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    Re: My warning to new players

    Post by Rynoa on Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:40 am

    Mmmmh, I used the strategy guide and some wiki in my first game, looking only for advices on my present area.
    I.E. : I'm in the depths and about to go for the Gaping Dragon, I might check the guide to see if I missed something before proceeding.
    Or I used it when I found a covenant, to get some information about it and about penalties.
    Actually I didn't do it always, in fact I missed a lot of things and I'm now enjoying my NG+ big grin
    But a bit of a guide isn't always bad, check the weapons, see if it's okay to upgrade your current armor or if you're about to find one you like better... Just don't spoiler yourself about major events/bosses/maps!
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    Re: My warning to new players

    Post by aceluby on Thu Mar 15, 2012 10:45 am

    I totally agree. Go blind until you are stuck, and by stuck I mean you've tried the part you're stuck on like 5 times (arbitrary), then go look it up or ask here. The game is supposed to give you a sense of hopelessness, it's what makes it so good. If you're prepared for every battle, know what's coming around every corner, all w/out seeing it you will never feel that loneliness and hopelessness that is Lordran.


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    Re: My warning to new players

    Post by CrackSouls on Thu Mar 15, 2012 5:11 pm

    YES! I held back looking up any videos at all until Anor Londo when I couldn't figure out you had to run up a certain something... you know what I mean.

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    Re: My warning to new players

    Post by Bawheidbob on Thu Mar 15, 2012 5:12 pm

    Yeah i am with you on this - I admit i had seen videos up to the gargoyles and the bit of the game about going back to the asylum but have decided to try and avoid as much as possible from no on.

    I am trying to decide now if i should delete my character who i took on a bit of a suicide run at the start to get the shield in drakes and a couple of swords in the graveyard.

    It is a bit like wishing i could erase the Secret of Monkey Island walkthrough from my brain so i could enjoy it all over again happy
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    Re: My warning to new players

    Post by WarriorOfSunlight on Thu Mar 15, 2012 6:11 pm

    I'd also advise them to play offline till Blighttown.


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    Re: My warning to new players

    Post by Yarxov on Thu Mar 15, 2012 6:14 pm

    ^or summon help ASAP


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    Re: My warning to new players

    Post by WarriorOfSunlight on Thu Mar 15, 2012 6:17 pm

    It's not even the help that's the problem. It's what they might receive from said help. I hope From fixes this soon.


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    Re: My warning to new players

    Post by Yarxov on Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:19 pm

    I see, people who drop high equipment for them :/
    Problem with that is that people will always do it, they just want to help as much as possible.


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    Re: My warning to new players

    Post by Deadpool on Thu Mar 15, 2012 8:15 pm

    Yeah found that out at anor londo


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    Re: My warning to new players

    Post by reim0027 on Thu Mar 15, 2012 9:37 pm

    I've gotta go against the flow here. I get too frustrated with puzzles; I get lost easily; I hate it when I don't know what to do or where to go. The game was way too complicated for me, WAY too complicated for my newb mind. The wiki was an invaluable help for me. I probably would have quit if not for that.

    Some of it depends on how you like to play. I'm opposite of mosts, I guess. Chalk it up to video gaming rookiness.


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    Re: My warning to new players

    Post by Yarxov on Fri Mar 16, 2012 12:59 am

    ^ I was like that in Demon Souls, I was such a newb I didn't even know what the letters on the weapon screen were for xD

    But the fact remains that the wonder is half the fun of this game.


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    Re: My warning to new players

    Post by Klosterheim on Fri Mar 16, 2012 2:11 am

    ***************************************
    *** Contains spoilers re: locations ***
    ***************************************


    I think the original post is great advice for a big percentage of players, but not necessarily everyone.

    First, there is the assumption that spoilers will necessarily "ruin" the game experience. If this was true, then the NG+ games would be dramatically less fun than they are. I can see how spoilers would _undermine_ fun for some people, but the success of the subsequent playthroughs leads me to believe that a lot of the allure of Dark Souls derives from something other than the Surprise value.

    Second, and related to the previous point, there is the assumption that everyone values Surprise in a game, and this is not true. We all know players (or, at least, I do), who don't give two **** about story or spoilers. They want to get into the game and master all of it as quickly as possible, period. A lot of hardcore MP types fit into this category, especially in Shooters, and I wouldn't be surprised if this applies to some in DS as well.

    Finally, I think there is a problem with your advice if a player only plays through the game once. If you play through the game once, and you don't read any spoilers, you will definitely get the full experience of Surprise, but you will also, unless you are unusually meticulous, miss out on _some_ really cool content and experiences. If, for example, you don't think to walk right up to the giant painting in Anor Londo, you will miss out on an entire level. If you don't roll through a certain wall in Blighttown, you will miss the Great Hollow and Ash Lake. Some of the secrets in the game are not exactly obvious.

    Do I therefore think your advice is bad? Not at all. As I said in the first paragraph, I think it's great advice, but I think the quality of the advice depends on the audience.

    IF you are someone who wants to enjoy all that DS offers -- and that includes Surprises -- then I think it is necessary, as you say, to experience the first run through without any advice at all. However, I also think its necessary to play through the game a couple more times in order to acquire everything it has to offer. If you do one without the other, you are missing out.

    However, if you are only going to play through once, then I suggest doing what others have suggested ... sure, don't look at Spoilers beforehand, but before leaving an area, you may want to look at the Wiki and videos to make sure you didn't miss anything important.

    And if you don't care about the Surprises at all, go nuts with the Wiki and the forums. There's a lot to comprehend and these are great resources.

    My .02, humbly given, after 1/3rd of a beer.
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    Re: My warning to new players

    Post by Yarxov on Fri Mar 16, 2012 2:23 am

    ^ Very well said, and I appreciate the alternate views, and I do mention how the warning is primarily applicable to NG only, and I understand that some people don't care about story, I am one of those people for certain games. for example, I have yet to even touch Campaign in many many games I have put all my time in Multiplayer for the alternate experience.

    I am tempted to add another paragraph to my original post to clarify this and provide more consideration.


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    Re: My warning to new players

    Post by Klosterheim on Fri Mar 16, 2012 2:52 am

    I appreciate you being gracious. I was afraid I came across as a blowhard. Sometimes, people understand all these subtleties, but they don't want to write an essay like I did, so they write shorter posts, like you did (I am guessing).

    Again, I think it comes down to audience. If all anyone read was your initial post, they would have a great time in Dark Souls, and it's hard to dispute that. I just added a lot of footnotes winking.
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    Re: My warning to new players

    Post by Yarxov on Fri Mar 16, 2012 3:21 am

    Yeah, my previous post was kept short because I primarily agree, am distracted, and no one really wants to read an essay ^.^


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    Re: My warning to new players

    Post by Darkson on Fri Mar 16, 2012 4:26 am

    I pretty much agree with everyone here I guess. I just would like to add/make more clear what I think is the most important point:

    You only have this one chance to get the "first-playthrough-experience". So the first time you play this game (or any game in general), you should always avoid spoilers (at least that's my advice), but what you definetly should do is to look up things up like... how the upgrade system works, what weapon scaling is, how you get spells to work, what is important in a fight etc.. That doesn't ruin anything at all, quite the opposite will be the chase I guess...

    And after that first playthrough, you can still enjoy the analyzing, studying, planning, finding out more about the lore etc... to infinity...


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    Re: My warning to new players

    Post by aceluby on Fri Mar 16, 2012 10:47 am

    Like I said previously, if you're lost, don't know what to do next, or feel you've completely conquered an area, but don't want to miss anything then I think using the forum and wiki is a great idea. But I still feel you're ruining your experience if you look at it before hand.

    Case in point, I walked down from quelaags to demon ruins soooooo slow the first time because I kept getting visions of world 2 in demon souls and the caves there. Funny now because there isn't a single enemy, but I was scared **** the first time.


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