Why the hate on Darkmoons?

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    Re: Why the hate on Darkmoons?

    Post by Scudman_Slayer on Sun Jan 22, 2012 3:29 am

    acutually linking the fire is bad because you're prolonging humanity's slavery to the gods instead of ending it


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    Re: Why the hate on Darkmoons?

    Post by sparkly-twinkly-lizard on Sun Jan 22, 2012 3:30 am

    one of the cov items says s/he formed it to extend the age of fire and by extension his/her fathers rule, but (in my opinion) because of his/her cruddy attempts at this and the resulting failiures the gods left lordran hence why s/he had to magic up a duplicate gwynevere (i infer his/her sister complex from how s/he "dressed" his/her creation)

    on a side note: i'll look into guilty gear, fighting game right?


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    Re: Why the hate on Darkmoons?

    Post by Eliteknight on Sun Jan 22, 2012 3:43 am

    sparkly-twinkly-lizard wrote:one of the cov items says s/he formed it to extend the age of fire and by extension his/her fathers rule, but (in my opinion) because of his/her cruddy attempts at this and the resulting failiures the gods left lordran hence why s/he had to magic up a duplicate gwynevere (i infer his/her sister complex from how s/he "dressed" his/her creation)

    on a side note: i'll look into guilty gear, fighting game right?

    Yhea its one of my favorites. That and blazblue (same company) are 2 of my favorite game series's.

    I get confused when trying to piece together everybody's motivations. We know so little after all. The fact that his sister is like...30 feet tall is pretty weird.


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    Re: Why the hate on Darkmoons?

    Post by sparkly-twinkly-lizard on Sun Jan 22, 2012 3:50 am

    well s/he conjured that gwynevere maybe s/he did it to make her more "impressive", most gods or godlings in lordran seem to be blk knight sized so yeah gwynevere is out of place...


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    Re: Why the hate on Darkmoons?

    Post by Scudman_Slayer on Sun Jan 22, 2012 3:52 am

    he's one of gwyn's sons and he is male but he was created a way a girl would

    he created the ilusion you see on anor londo (sunny) and gwynevere

    gwynevere left anor londo

    and so did gwyn and took some knights with him

    few knights stayed at anor londo to protect it


    gwyn linked the fire making gods rule over humans but the fire took him and his knights and made the black knights

    gwyn was reborn (i think) or lived through linking the fire

    Gwyn somehow cracked and refused to link the fire Because gwynevere says he got corrupted,either that or he's just defending it from you

    Gwynevere doesn't appear in game only her illusion appears made by gwyndolin

    so she's there to trick you into thinking that linking the fire is good


    if you talk to kathee before giving the lordvessel to frampt he will give you a full explanation of who you really are and who is the furtive pygmy and tell you to not link the fire so humans can rule over the gods

    so Kathee (and the darkwraiths) are good and the gods and frampt are bad


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    Re: Why the hate on Darkmoons?

    Post by Eliteknight on Sun Jan 22, 2012 3:54 am

    Yhea it is wierd....I mean Gwyn himself is like 12 feet tall if that. Gwyndolin is about the same size. Gwynvere...is a giant.

    She is an illusion, that may be what Gywndolin thinks mortals believe gods look like.


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    Re: Why the hate on Darkmoons?

    Post by Scudman_Slayer on Sun Jan 22, 2012 4:00 am

    it is indeed weird

    it took some time and patience to read the entire lore page of the wiki :evil: yet it sitll didn't udnerstand the first time around and i had to read again :evil: :evil:
    so im pretty sure what i said here is true


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    Re: Why the hate on Darkmoons?

    Post by sparkly-twinkly-lizard on Sun Jan 22, 2012 4:00 am

    yeah i think gwyn has to be taken out because he's gone hollow, imortality is not a blessing as this game proves; you live long enough you go crazy or simply want to die... maybe thats why gwyn refused to link the fire again, he wanted an end.
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    Re: Why the hate on Darkmoons?

    Post by belkaizer on Mon Jan 23, 2012 5:36 am

    i dont think is a matter of covenant. i think is more of individual character, how we behave. not to add more wood to the fire. i am a darkmoon, darkmoon is a faith base covenant, i want darkmoon blade, so i join the covenant to get it and be able to use it. i have 50 faith on my lv170 im gonna use wog. would i limit myself to use because people think is cheap no. this is just my opinion nothing important. i just want to express myself because im a darkmoon but im not like that stereotype you want to fit all darkmoons. can we all get along?? this is a game and we are suppose to have fun. I know im having a lot of fun big grin
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    Re: Why the hate on Darkmoons?

    Post by ViralEnsign_ on Sat Feb 25, 2012 5:28 am

    The whole darkmoons suck because they are faith users is a poor generalisation. Darkwraiths have faith users who make use of wrath of the gods,sunlight blade, twop, and god knows what else, same with the forest hunters and sunbros. Also the arguement that they are weak because they risk nothing is also ridiculous. Simply because we don't gain humanity or giving it up doesn't mean we don't try just as hard as anyone else or aren't as good as risk has little in common with skill level.

    Also this idea that they are all low level and use noobish tactics is only anecdotal evidence, consequently my simply stating that this isn't the case is also anecdotal.

    Don't hate on us simply because we get a really good buff, make use of high tier miracles, and use mobs when outnumbered everyone uses cheap tactics at some point or another.


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    Re: Why the hate on Darkmoons?

    Post by WyrmHero on Sat Feb 25, 2012 11:09 am

    I have team up with Darkwraiths to beat the hell out of campers in Dark Anor London. I consider Darkwraiths as allies. In the end we both win if we kill the host, no?


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    Re: Why the hate on Darkmoons?

    Post by Rin on Sat Feb 25, 2012 11:12 am

    ok so im a darkwraith... i never did low lv pvp against noob players in the burds and i do not lagstabb/spamm or use any other cheap tactic...i go by my own code of honor and rules and i dont realy hate any covinent in the game... so 1st a lot of weak players use the darkwraith invasion system to invade people with bad equipment this annoys me too..i dont think you can hate a covinent for some people in it as its not the covinent its just some people in it...faith users that spamm use the lock on change to take out players...that n some lag based tactics is wt makes the darkmoons not realy liked but i find thers no problem with that just dont farm in dark londo... so i say y dont like the darkmoons go to the forest


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    Re: Why the hate on Darkmoons?

    Post by strangejoy on Sat Feb 25, 2012 11:48 am

    Dj-B-Man-Jr wrote:this topic has been talked about way to much, but people basically hate the darkmoons for only 2 arguable reasons

    1)No lower level invasion cap
    2)No humanity after vanguishing

    people will eventually come here and start talking about the color of the spirits also, because that actually matters right? -_-

    I'm a darkmoon, but i also stock up on 99 cracked red orbs so i can invade as both red & blue spirits, if one orb fails, use the other one and repeat, i get pretty solid pvp that way.

    These two reasons are pretty much why I grit my teeth when I'm invaded by a spirit of vengeance. I understand for roleplaying reasons why the "guilty" wouldn't be expected to be rewarded, but it's still annoying as a matter of gameplay.

    The level cap is doubly annoying, because it creates poor incentives. If you want to invade higher SL or the same SL, you choose darkwraith. If you want to invade lower SL or the same SL, you choose darkmoon. I know darkmoons hate generalizations, as they should, but can't we agree that incentives matter? If I'm the sort of person who intentionally invades people who are lower level then me, wouldn't that increase the odds that I'm less concerned about "fair play" in other respects too?

    Notice that I've said "increase the odds," not "make it inevitable." I don't think that all darkmoons or even most darkmoons are unconcerned about "fair play," but I think it's a bit naive to ignore the incentive structures create by invasion parameters. If you want a completely even and fair match, intentionally invading people substantially lower level than you seems a bit odd.
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    Re: Why the hate on Darkmoons?

    Post by PhlyingDutchman on Sat Feb 25, 2012 12:01 pm

    Hey guys,
    I for one am a Darkmoon blade who does not use WoG and has never cast TWoP. I have faith 30 for sunlight blade, though when I invade, DMB is the first buff of choice, with strong magic barrier if I have time. I then try to charge you down with a buffed either zweihander or silver knight sword (if they are crafty and fast). I suppose i take advantage of poise by using the Wolf's ring, and catch people in a stunlock, but that's just my big sword melee strategy, and I am in fact there to assassinate you! Does that make me a cheap Darkmoon?
    You don't want me crashing your party- get your sins forgiven or don't kill Gwynevere.
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    Re: Why the hate on Darkmoons?

    Post by strangejoy on Sat Feb 25, 2012 12:05 pm

    PhlyingDutchman wrote:Hey guys,
    I for one am a Darkmoon blade who does not use WoG and has never cast TWoP. I have faith 30 for sunlight blade, though when I invade, DMB is the first buff of choice, with strong magic barrier if I have time. I then try to charge you down with a buffed either zweihander or silver knight sword (if they are crafty and fast). I suppose i take advantage of poise by using the Wolf's ring, and catch people in a stunlock, but that's just my big sword melee strategy, and I am in fact there to assassinate you! Does that make me a cheap Darkmoon?
    You don't want me crashing your party- get your sins forgiven or don't kill Gwynevere.

    No, nothing you said sounds cheap.
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    Re: Why the hate on Darkmoons?

    Post by ViralEnsign_ on Sat Feb 25, 2012 7:40 pm

    I'm pretty sure that the Blue Eye orb allows Darkmoons to invade higher levels. On more than one occasion I have been fighting a person with a higher sl that I, but that is purely from my experience and not really concrete evidence. Please correct me if I am wrong.

    Also saying Darkmoons are cheap beacuse of lag based tactics doesn't make sense to me. Lag is not something we choose to have nor is it something I think people actively try to capitalise on (they might do but I wouldn't know). If I do get a BS that seems to be due to lag or anything like that I'll apologise to the host/ whomsoever I happen to be fighting.\


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    Re: Why the hate on Darkmoons?

    Post by White Mamba on Sat Feb 25, 2012 9:42 pm

    Darkmoons are easily avoidable, resolve your sins. But really, how can a covenant be so hated when all types can be dogs when it comes to battle. To me there is nothing worse than those Sunbros in the forest but that is only a minority of them and most others are really helpful

    I don't see the issue with using Wog and TWOP either, they are the only decent offensive miracles there are and why would I limit myself. It would just be a waste of all those points. They are no worse than the soul spears which always seem to hit with lag
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    Re: Why the hate on Darkmoons?

    Post by Mr.Self-Destruct on Sat Feb 25, 2012 9:54 pm

    I saw on the wiki that there was a covenant war between gravelords and WoW + Sunbros a couple of weeks back. I figure if there is that much animosity between DWs and Damoons then maybe they should organize a covenant war between these two covs as well. I'd pay for front row seats for that grudge match.....just a thought.


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    Re: Why the hate on Darkmoons?

    Post by BLA1NE on Sat Feb 25, 2012 10:26 pm

    This thread should have stayed dead...

    It's true there are all sorts of people playing in every covenant. There may or may not be more of a despicable type in one covenant or other, but until we set some bounds and collect empirical data (don't bother--I'm just making a point!) we should chalk that up to personal impressions.

    Also, for spells used by members of a covenant, see my point above. I use WoG one one of my builds, it never was a Darkmoon. And I personally have no hate toward any spells (except for TWoP, still), so I wouldn't even care if Darkmoon members had a higher propensity for using that spell. In fact I love an opponent who uses WoG--go ahead, waste your attunment slot, you're not going to hit me with it! Roll, roll, roll...

    The only reason I prefer to fight a Darkwraith rather than a Darkmoon, is simply because of the rewards. I want the humanity. If I get invaded by a Darkwraith, my humanity can either go +1 or -1. If I get invaded by a Darkmoon, my humanity can only go -1 or stay the same. Like I said, I want the humanities, so I much prefer to get invaded by the one that gives me a chance to increase my count, rather than the one that doesn't.


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    Re: Why the hate on Darkmoons?

    Post by ErrJon6661 on Sat Feb 25, 2012 10:37 pm

    As far as the game is concerned it's not supposed to be fun or rewarding to fight a darkmoon, just like in real life its not fun or rewarding to get pulled over or cited by the cops. Thats just how it is. They serve a purpose within the community whether its "fun" for everyone or not. As a darkmoon on a few characters I enjoy the fact that I'm an assassin of the guilty. I don't care if the person I'm invading is having fun or not.


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    Re: Why the hate on Darkmoons?

    Post by Yukon on Sun Feb 26, 2012 1:54 am

    I also thought that darkmoons could invade either up or down, I know when I first joined them to get the miracles offered by the covenent that I invaded someone who dropped like 800k in souls, and others dropping around 60-70k in souls when I was only around level 45. This was pre-patch, so unless they changed something, I think based on the number of souls I got that the people were higher level than I was.

    From my personal experience darkwraiths were a lot more aggresive than darkmoons, almost every darkmoon fight I have had the invader bow'd and let me set up, where darkwraiths backstabbed me while I was bowing, or cast magic at me. I even remember seeing a video on youtube where a darkwraith using smough armour on someone in the depths bow'd then when the host bow'd he ran up and sucked out her humanity.

    It's pretty silly to generalize a covenant based on bad encounters.. I personally feel more stressed when a darkwraith invades me because I am expecting an unfair fight, as opposed to when a darkmoon invades me. Does that make me hate them? No, like my brother likes to say it "When the invader is blue, don't be a fool. When you see red, **** the bed."

    Forest covenant, darkmoons and darkwraiths are all just doing what they are meant to do, be additional monsters in an area and stop your progress. I just wish they hadn't removed the ability to hit monsters in the area as an invader, I used to love messing with new players by getting them to the fog gate of the area then starting a fight hahaha.


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    Re: Why the hate on Darkmoons?

    Post by ErrJon6661 on Sun Feb 26, 2012 5:06 am

    That saying is awesome. "When the invader is blue, don't be a fool. WHen you see red, **** the bed." I'm totally stealing that.


    The point is and what this thread should end on is that it doesn't matter what covenant someone is in its the individual player. I have characters in many different covenants and it doesn't change how I play. There are douchebag darkmoons and douchebag darkwraiths. Doesn't mean they're all douchebags. People need to get over this.


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    Re: Why the hate on Darkmoons?

    Post by Rin on Sun Feb 26, 2012 10:50 am

    the invasion system for darkwraith n darkmoons is like ths it goes something like 10-20% up n down for the blue but for the red orb it goes 10% down but thers no% cap on it going up...so on my lv 200 toon i a lot of the time i invaded sl 500, 300 and some times 700...that why a lot of people will say darkwraith are better...also darkmoons gives you the best weapon buff un the game...


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    Re: Why the hate on Darkmoons?

    Post by lextune on Sun Feb 26, 2012 12:48 pm

    Darkmoons are easy to hate because you can have one 50 or 60 (or more) levels above you invading you.

    It is zero fun when you are like level 25, in barely upgraded starting gear, and a level 80 Darkmoon invades you and rapes you with Wrath of Gods and/or a Darkmoon Blade weapon.


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    Re: Why the hate on Darkmoons?

    Post by Yarxov on Sun Feb 26, 2012 12:49 pm

    So you are hating on players because they have more opportunity after being generally hated by the community?

    The whole "Darkmoon hate" thing is ridiculous, DW is to DM as cops are to robbers, there is a reason they come so you should just stop complaining and accept it. Everyone hating a large percentage of players will not change anything and simply demonstrate your intolerance.


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