Magic, Miracles, and Pyromancies.

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    Magic, Miracles, and Pyromancies.

    Post by ViralEnsign_ on Mon Mar 12, 2012 6:22 pm

    How do they work and what are they. The purpose of this thread is to discuss such lofty philosophical questions.

    What methods/ systems could be used to explain how magic in Dark Souls works. Why have charges (please don't simplt say its a game mechanic please theorise), for what purpose?

    How do Miracles work? Aren't they just scripture/songs of travellers? And how does a faithful man tap into that power.\Are all the magic types linked back to souls arts?


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    Re: Magic, Miracles, and Pyromancies.

    Post by Reaperfan on Mon Mar 12, 2012 6:27 pm

    I believe one of the early miracles (I think it's Heal) states that miracles are quite literally a piece of scripture which your character reads, and upon reading it draws power from the scripture to enact the various effects based on the meaning of the lines they read. It also hints at this on the Great Heal Excerpt, saying that it's only difference between it and Great Heal are that Great Heal Excerpt contains only a few lines of the appropriate scriptures, therefore not allowing it to be used as many times. The Faith requirement is there to reinforce the fact that you need a certain level of understanding of the "faithful ways" in Lordran to be able to interpret the effects of each scripture, so a person with inadequate Faith will not be able to interpret the effects of higher level miracles.


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    Re: Magic, Miracles, and Pyromancies.

    Post by WyrmHero on Mon Mar 12, 2012 7:47 pm

    I concur with what Reaperfan has stated, even the Lighting Spears work the same way. For the pyromancies, they work with some kind of meditation with nature. Pyromancy was invented when the Witch of Izalith created the Chaos Flame. I have read that Chaos Spells does not depend on how much Humanity you have, however, Chaos feeds on Humanity, so the most logical theory is that Chaos Spells are stronger the more Humanity you have. The power of these pyromancies depend too on how powerful is your Pyromancy Flame. For the Sorceries, even the sorcerers dont know how they do it. It seems that theres a connection with the power of the souls and the crystals.


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    Re: Magic, Miracles, and Pyromancies.

    Post by Reaperfan on Tue Mar 13, 2012 7:29 pm

    WyrmHero wrote:For the pyromancies, they work with some kind of meditation with nature. Pyromancy was invented when the Witch of Izalith created the Chaos Flame. I have read that Chaos Spells does not depend on how much Humanity you have, however, Chaos feeds on Humanity, so the most logical theory is that Chaos Spells are stronger the more Humanity you have.The power of these pyromancies depend too on how powerful is your Pyromancy Flame. For the Sorceries, even the sorcerers dont know how they do it. It seems that theres a connection with the power of the souls and the crystals.

    I will have to contest with your thoughts on the Chaos Pyromancies, because the mechanics themselves do not support it. Chaos Pyromancies do not gain power with stored humanity like the rest, the only difference between them and the regualr versions being that they leave lava behind when used. I will throw out the idea that the difference between them, lore-wise, is that normal pyromancies draw on the power of the First Flame, while Chaos pyromancies draw power from the Chaos Flame. Since the power of the First Flame permeates the entire world of Lordran (as evidenced by the embers that fall through the air), I feel this is safe to assume. Both spells are the same kind of spell and the same in power since the caster is still channelling the same amount of energy into the same form, but one has different effects because it comes from a different source.

    As for sorceries, I don't believe the crystals have anything to do with them. I'm pulling alot of "proof" from Demon's Souls for this bit, but I feel it all translates very well into Dark Souls as well, though because of this take what I say about sorceries more as specualtion. Anyway, sorceries are the polar opposite of miracles. While miracles use one's understanding of an outside source, and drawing on power from said outside source, sorceries draw upon on an individual's understanding of themselves, and drawing on inner strength for their power.The reliance on intelligence for sorceries follows the same vein as miracles. The scroll for a sorcery lays out instructions on how to channel your energy into a tangible form, and your intelligence allows you to be able to understand those instructions. This even ties in to the idea of increasing soul levels to use higher level magic, as the higher levels of magic require more individual energy to draw from. The crystals only relate to a very specific form of magic that Seath was researching, combining inner power with a source of natural energy for enhanced strength.


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    Re: Magic, Miracles, and Pyromancies.

    Post by DoughGuy on Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:05 pm

    Miracles are stories about saints and the like. By reading part of the story a personof sufficient faith can draw power from the story in the form of energy and use this to perform various tasks. Each story is nly so long and needs a certain length to be readfor the reader to gain its power. Thus their is a limit on the nmber of casting per resting.

    Pyromancy draws on the power of the first flame and the chaos flame through thepyromancers own inner flame. The person can only draw so much of each power through their own flame before the flame is exhausted. Resting at a bonfire refills the flames reserves and allows new castngs. The chaos pyromancies draw upon the chaos flame whilethe normal pyromancies draw upon the first flame. upgrading the casters own flame increases the amount of flame they can draw BUT the flames are more powerful cancelling this out.

    Sorcery is the tricky one. Sorcery seems to be the mainpulation of energy (be it inetic for the arrows or light for the Oocalile sorceries) into a form that can be utilised by the caster. owever each manipulation drains the casters own reserves. It draws this energy from the surroundings through the casters force of will. However this is mentally tiring and cannot be done indefinitely. resting at a bonfire refreshes the casters mind. A high intelligence increases the casters mental resreves.


    Last edited by DoughGuy on Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:10 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Re: Magic, Miracles, and Pyromancies.

    Post by ViralEnsign_ on Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:08 pm

    Yeah I like to think that as a player uses magic it slowly eats away at thier soul, i.e they are casting physical embodimentts of it to deal damage, and as such cannot cast indefinately lest they break thier soul down too much. Resting allows the soul time to recover the parts that were lost/ cast.


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    [11:10:08 p.m.] Kwith: ..Woah.
    [11:10:14 p.m.] Robb "the Ensign_": FATALITY!
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