Greataxe help

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    IzalithFM
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    Greataxe help

    Post by IzalithFM on Tue Oct 08, 2013 7:41 am

    Hey i have been using a low poise Greataxe build in PvP lately and have been having a good amount of success, however i am having a major problem with DWGR users and Roll Backstabbers. I am reasonably new to strength weapons and wondering if there is any way to fight these people without having to switch weapons.

    if you're curious about the build then here's a link: http://mmdks.com/48bi
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    xenon_nobelium
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    Re: Greataxe help

    Post by xenon_nobelium on Tue Oct 08, 2013 7:59 am

    without switching weapons or equipping a quick sidearm your best bet is kicking them as they approach.


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    Re: Greataxe help

    Post by Maplepop on Tue Oct 08, 2013 8:13 am

    I'm a huge fan of the Greataxe myself... although i've generally used it whilst having 40 + poise (i admire your 12-poise bravery!)

    Being such a slow weapon, I too had the same problem with DWGR flippers whilst using the weapon.

    I found that throwing in an unlocked R2 whilst also pivoting towards the general direction of your opponent during the long wind-up animation would often throw them off-guard.





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    Re: Greataxe help

    Post by IzalithFM on Tue Oct 08, 2013 8:42 am

    Maplepop wrote:
    I found that throwing in an unlocked R2 whilst also pivoting towards the general direction of your opponent during the long wind-up animation would often throw them off-guard.
    Yeah i've been doing something similar with the rolling R1 and also trying to catch them offguard with surprise running attacks. I use the R2 trick on people with slower rolls since the invincibility frames on the DWGR seems to be able to avoid almost anything.
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    Re: Greataxe help

    Post by IzalithFM on Tue Oct 08, 2013 8:43 am

    xenon_nobelium wrote:without switching weapons or equipping a quick sidearm your best bet is kicking them as they approach.
    I would but whats my follow up? the greataxe is too slow to get a hit off when they are staggered.
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    Re: Greataxe help

    Post by Maplepop on Tue Oct 08, 2013 9:08 am

    IzalithFM wrote:
    xenon_nobelium wrote:without switching weapons or equipping a quick sidearm your best bet is kicking them as they approach.
    I would but whats my follow up? the greataxe is too slow to get a hit off when they are staggered.
    Kick them and try a jumping attack with the greataxe... chances are they'll roll backwards once they've recovered from the kick, and the jumping attack has decent phantom range for a chance to pancake them happy


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    Re: Greataxe help

    Post by Dibsville on Tue Oct 08, 2013 9:28 am

    Greataxe is probably way up there in terms of my favourite weapons. While it may seem bad at first, it's actually quite an amazingly tricky weapon.

    On to your problem... Greataxe is actually pretty fast if you 1h it. If you're facing someone who is roll BSing, switch to 1h, and UNLOCK, then use the R2 and turn around. Assuming they tried rolling behind you, which they obviously will, they'll just get bashed for a ton of damage. You can also quickly follow up with an R1 (this combo being one of my favourite baits in the game) to either hit them in case you missed, or possibly get another hit.

    Now, DWGR users are a different problem altogether. I'd recommend simply putting on a secondary weapon as stated above. With your current stats, I'd recommend the Hand Axe. It's more or less the vanilla of the strength weapons, (with the same base damage as the Scimitar for Dexterity weapons, and Longsword for quality, just with different scaling). It's light, fast, and the R2 deals a considerable amount of poise damage. With your current stats, it does 347 base AR (which may not seem like a lot, but when you consider its weight and speed compared to the damage, especially considering that the damage is pure physical, it is actually quite staggering). Just try to find a work-around to add it. If you really don't want to, you can try using a DWGR of your own when fighting against people that use it, and just spam the rolling R1, which is a nasty 360 degree turn.

    Finally... as stated by Maple, use the jumping attack. It's fast, has a strangely large range, and can pancake. Just make sure you aim first...


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    Re: Greataxe help

    Post by xenon_nobelium on Tue Oct 08, 2013 10:02 am

    i dunno if you're talking about the greataxe as a weapon or as a category but the 2h R1 of the black knight greataxe is actually hard to dodge after a kick stagger, almost unblockable like. (ok i just realized you posted yr build but i leave this comment anyways)
    another cheap trick after the kick 'd be to go straight for the bs yrself. not really a tight setup like stagger->bs but you might want to go for it depending on your situation. other than that like already suggested unlocked swings to yr back, whiff a R1 from a safe distance and snuff their punish attempt by hitting behind you.


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    Re: Greataxe help

    Post by IzalithFM on Tue Oct 08, 2013 10:13 am

    Dibsville wrote:Greataxe is probably way up there in terms of my favourite weapons. While it may seem bad at first, it's actually quite an amazingly tricky weapon.

    On to your problem... Greataxe is actually pretty fast if you 1h it. If you're facing someone who is roll BSing, switch to 1h, and UNLOCK, then use the R2 and turn around. Assuming they tried rolling behind you, which they obviously will, they'll just get bashed for a ton of damage. You can also quickly follow up with an R1 (this combo being one of my favourite baits in the game) to either hit them in case you missed, or possibly get another hit.

    Now, DWGR users are a different problem altogether. I'd recommend simply putting on a secondary weapon as stated above. With your current stats, I'd recommend the Hand Axe. It's more or less the vanilla of the strength weapons, (with the same base damage as the Scimitar for Dexterity weapons, and Longsword for quality, just with different scaling). It's light, fast, and the R2 deals a considerable amount of poise damage. With your current stats, it does 347 base AR (which may not seem like a lot, but when you consider its weight and speed compared to the damage, especially considering that the damage is pure physical, it is actually quite staggering). Just try to find a work-around to add it. If you really don't want to, you can try using a DWGR of your own when fighting against people that use it, and just spam the rolling R1, which is a nasty 360 degree turn.

    Finally... as stated by Maple, use the jumping attack. It's fast, has a strangely large range, and can pancake. Just make sure you aim first...
    I fight mostly unlocked anyway, but i was under the impression that the 1h moveset was the same speed as the 2h move set so i have been using it exclusively 2 handed. I'm still making this build so i can sacrifice some vitality for some more endurance to equip a backup weapon; I have some experience with the hand axe so that seems like a good choice.

    The problem with Roll BSers is that they wont roll behind me until i attack and are generally smart enough to avoid a simple unlocked R1's. As for normal DWGR users i find that the running attack works well since they're surprisingly fast and can easily hit people in-between their attacks, I've even had luck doing this against spear users.

    Also i'm thinking of using a piece of the armour of thorns to cancel some backstabs, and maybe changing emit force to just force.

    Revised build: http://mmdks.com/48c9
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    Re: Greataxe help

    Post by Dibsville on Tue Oct 08, 2013 10:20 am

    Looks good, but why not try the Wolf Ring instead of Cloranthy? A quick Blossom gives a better effect than Cloranthy anyway.
    Also, be patient against roll BSers, they'll attack eventually.
    And as I mentioned above, the 1h R2 -> R1 is my favourite bait in the game, and for a good reason. Try it.


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    Re: Greataxe help

    Post by IzalithFM on Tue Oct 08, 2013 10:27 am

    Dibsville wrote:Looks good, but why not try the Wolf Ring instead of Cloranthy? A quick Blossom gives a better effect than Cloranthy anyway.
    I'm using this build more for fun than to actually be viable and i enjoy running low poise since i get punished more for my mistakes. I use both blossom and Cloranthy since i tend to play rather aggressively and rely on stamina regen too much.
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    Re: Greataxe help

    Post by Shakie666 on Tue Oct 08, 2013 11:28 am

    I know you've already made the build by now, but taking off 16 points of str and putting them into dex gives an extra 3 ar and lets you use a much wider variety of weapons.

    I'm also partial to the greataxe, but i've never been able to effectively use it in pvp.
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    Re: Greataxe help

    Post by IzalithFM on Tue Oct 08, 2013 11:40 am

    Shakie666 wrote:I know you've already made the build by now, but taking off 16 points of str and putting them into dex gives an extra 3 ar and lets you use a much wider variety of weapons.

    I'm also partial to the greataxe, but i've never been able to effectively use it in pvp.
    My main character is a 40/40 quality build so i have weapon variety covered with that.
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    Re: Greataxe help

    Post by xenon_nobelium on Tue Oct 08, 2013 11:59 am

    cloranthy ring is a pretty poor choice tbh. i'd use havels, you could save on end. and/or equip grass crest shield for stamina and better armor. or make the build a lvl100 or raise fth to 30, or go for 50str/18dex... whats the 14dex for btw? also just for (a really weak) emit force 10 levels are a hefty investment (8fth+2att). needs much refinement if you ask me, i'd be glad to deliver some suggestions.


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    Re: Greataxe help

    Post by TheMeInTeam on Tue Oct 08, 2013 12:54 pm

    xenon_nobelium wrote:without switching weapons or equipping a quick sidearm your best bet is kicking them as they approach.
    Kicks are great and all, but IMO kind of pointless unless your follow-up attack is capable of hitting them (or you think they'll keep trying to block and can break their guard).

    With big, slow weapons you can kick stun someone, and they'll simply block or roll away before you do any damage. Meanwhile, they might hit you during the kick and do damage, which sucks. Kicks are great on things like spears and straight swords because you can smack them after a successful kick for damage...something that actually puts pressure.


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    Re: Greataxe help

    Post by IzalithFM on Tue Oct 08, 2013 7:59 pm

    xenon_nobelium wrote:cloranthy ring is a pretty poor choice tbh. i'd use havels, you could save on end. and/or equip grass crest shield for stamina and better armor. or make the build a lvl100 or raise fth to 30, or go for 50str/18dex... whats the 14dex for btw? also just for (a really weak) emit force 10 levels are a hefty investment (8fth+2att). needs much refinement if you ask me, i'd be glad to deliver some suggestions.
    this was adapted from a lvl 100 had which used a chaos whip offhand and a mace as the primary weapon, so i needed the 14 dex. good point about the rings, it should allow me to put more into other stats.

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