I Have a Question for the PvP Community

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    I Have a Question for the PvP Community

    Post by The Letter X on Tue Oct 01, 2013 8:06 pm

    After many hours of PvP - duels, random invasions, tournies, fight clubs - what have you, something has urked me more and more as time went on. My favorite type of weapon, the katana, is frowned upon as most people know. Now I know this is the case for many good reasons,  and we don't need to go into detail with them in this thread.

    But I still love using a katana, and when I happen to pull one out, which is pretty rare nowadays, is only when I'm facing another katana user or a spear user (again, we don't need to go into detail on that subject). 

    Another thing I'd like to bring up before I deliver my question is I do not use shields. I prefer to see a bare offhand or another weapon because I do not like the way shields look. I have done this since I started to PvP, but I turned it into an excuse to use a katana more often. It however still makes me feel like I'm missing something that I will bring up shortly.

    Finally, I started to lower my poise. Starting from before the DWGR nerf, I think I had 77 poise, I then lowered to something around the 53 breakpoint, and now I alternate between 21 and 36. Again, lowering my poise made me feel a little better about using a katana, but it seems like people still do not like it.

    And now, for the question. Would you think the use of a katana in PvP be "fair" or "justified" if the user had both no shield and no poise?

    The reason I ask this is because I know some people are quicker to write someone off as a noob, cookie cutter builder, anything to make them feel better about the loss. And I know it really shouldn'tmmatter what other people think of me, but I likeknowing that others respect me in the PvP community. I reveive "GG" messages when dual-wielding the broadsword and Falchion for example much more often than when wielding the Chaos Blade. I'd really like to replicate those GG messages or at least know I receive the same amount of recognition while using a katana, no matter how much I need to gimp myself.

    Thanks to anyone who reads the whole rant. Proper Bow

    Edit: To whom it may concern, I do not use Pyromancy, magic, or the DWGR.


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    Re: I Have a Question for the PvP Community

    Post by Leet on Tue Oct 01, 2013 8:15 pm

    Katana's are obviously very good weapons. I'd say the best weapon class because they can deliver much more damage in the time it takes for example, to swing a UGS. They can cause bleed, deliver damage fast, swing fast, and go very good with fast rolling builds obviously. 

    Really what comes down to it is, do you like using a katana? Obviously you do. So who cares what other people think. Run 77 poise. Use no shield. Use a shield. Do whatever you want. People won't be happy regardless. If they lose to a whip, they're gonna make up excuses of why they lost. They're gonna call you a noob. Who cares. Use what you want and have fun.

    Dex builds are pretty cookie cutter and you do see them everywhere. But, it's for obvious reasons. But no one should hate on the fact you're using a katana. If you wanna use it and you do good and have fun using it, that's all you need. 

    Katana's are not OP. Everyone should know how to fight them because of how common they are. I used to be a dedicated katana user back in the day so i know how to stop them because i've used them so much. I know all the tactics and i know them from the inside out. So i have no problem with playing against them. If someone calls you a noob for using a katana with no shield and 77 poise, obviously they are the inexperienced player who can't counter the most common weapon in PvP.

    The main point is as i've said, use what you want. No experienced player on here, or anywhere period is gonna judge you because you're using what you feel comfortable with and you like. That's what we all do. I feel comfortable and can cause mayhem with quality weapons. If someone has a problem i could care less. They can look forward to having a Kumo in their back then. Fine with me.
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    Re: I Have a Question for the PvP Community

    Post by Sneezer on Tue Oct 01, 2013 8:38 pm

    The stigma comes from the extreme overuse of it as a weapon by anyone from R1 spammers who are new to PvP, and the hordes of people on Twitch who seldom use anything else.
    Katanas are safe, easy, effective, have bleed, and the Chaos Blade takes away one of their only disadvantages over some of the bigger weapons; the straight sword level damage. 
    They are by far one of the most boring, frustrating, and difficult weapons to fight against for a majority of the playerbase, so many positives, and few legitimate negatives.
    Adding the Darkwood Grain Ring to a katana build is just silly, because if anything IS overpowered in Dark Souls, it's that ring. Couple a Chaos Blade, the DWGR, and stamina regen buffs, and you have yourself frustration incarnate.

    Personally, I'm used to fighting this sort of thing, so the most I'll ever be is slightly annoyed. But as for your question, yes; I'd say that not exploiting every single advantage katanas offer does make them much less... obnoxious. 
    Though I wouldn't be expecting those GG messages to come back, regardless of your gimp.


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    Re: I Have a Question for the PvP Community

    Post by The Letter X on Tue Oct 01, 2013 8:50 pm

    Reinforcing a point I made in the OP,  I know all of the reasons for the katana hate/salt. And I do believe most of it is justified. Addressing those points aren't necessary in your posts, unless you feel you need to bring them up tobetter explain your answer.

    And thank you for the responses. I'm interested in seeing more views on the subject.


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    Re: I Have a Question for the PvP Community

    Post by Qyntius on Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:09 pm

    There is a trend in most multi-player video games in which players tends to shun the noob-friendlier builds and tactics. It is actually pretty comparable to hipsters who do not enjoy mainstream interests and deem their own tastes so much more superior that they start considering themselves superior as a human being. This behavior is then amplified by the amount of circle jerking in different forums and communities where people can discuss how bad these katana R1 spammers are whilst masturbating over screenshots of their +5 Raw Notched Whip/ lightening Cestus Solaire Cosplay.

    Personally I enjoy a large variety of weapons including the katana, but would never complain about the strength of weapon because in Dark Souls there is always parry, block, roll and other techniques that allow you to trivialize most weapons.


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    Re: I Have a Question for the PvP Community

    Post by Icegodzilla on Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:12 pm

    In my opinion every weapon in the game is fair game, it just gets annoying when people just spam r1 over and over again, and unfortunately alot of katanna users do this


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    Re: I Have a Question for the PvP Community

    Post by Leet on Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:34 pm

    And the Katana R1 spammers can get poise parried. Fair enough, no?

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    Re: I Have a Question for the PvP Community

    Post by Hingle McCringleberry on Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:41 pm

    I say pull out the mm and if they buck, pop em in the mouth. Just kidding.
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    Re: I Have a Question for the PvP Community

    Post by reim0027 on Tue Oct 01, 2013 11:08 pm

    Use whatever weapon you want. Don't let other people's hate affect you. People just don't like to get beat.

    Personally, I hate fighting kats. But, that is because good kat users destroy me.

    Also, IMO, the only thing that is OP is the player (and not weapons, shields, armor, or rings).


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    Re: I Have a Question for the PvP Community

    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? on Tue Oct 01, 2013 11:15 pm

    Use them at "At Risk" status or weakly/not upgraded.

    That might stop people from crying OP and try-hard. Then again, it might not.

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    Re: I Have a Question for the PvP Community

    Post by reim0027 on Tue Oct 01, 2013 11:24 pm

    LOL, it probably won't. I see more insults from ignorant people than those who have enough experience recognize a handicapped kat.

    And, who cares if people call you try-hard or OP? That is, unless they have a valid point, which many people do not.


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    Re: I Have a Question for the PvP Community

    Post by Juutas on Wed Oct 02, 2013 12:47 am

    Haha, when I use a katana I nerf myself too for some reason (I strip naked and replace my other ring with Orange Charred ring...FLAME KICKS!).

    My main problem with the katanas is just that they have become reeeeally boring weapons. Almost every single person I run to who has a katana use them in totally same way, with the same boring tactics and boring builds (Dex/pyro with katana anyone?).
    At this very moment I can only name one katana user from the top of my head I don't find boring to fight against, since he has developed his unique fighting style.

    It's not "what" it's "how"...kinda applies to all of the weapons I guess ~


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    Re: I Have a Question for the PvP Community

    Post by AnCapaillMor on Wed Oct 02, 2013 4:27 am

    Use what you want, it's the same in every game, i've been playing multiplayer a long time and remember being called a noob Kar98 user in DOD back in the day, i even vaguely remember someone giving out to me as wee lad about spamming hadokens too much in SF2. Said it before and i'll say it again, it's a known fact that 80% of people online do not lose games fairly, it's either lag, hacks or glitched weapons that beat him. You're going to get heat\salt regardless of what you use sp screw what they think.

    Agree with juutas though, fighting the average katana user is like fighting a great scythe user, the fights will mainly consist of running L1's with the odd R2 added into it.


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    Re: I Have a Question for the PvP Community

    Post by Leet on Wed Oct 02, 2013 8:22 am

    AnCapaillMor wrote:Agree with juutas though, fighting the average katana user is like fighting a great scythe user, the fights will mainly consist of running L1's with the odd R2 added into it.
    Running L1s? silly 

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    Re: I Have a Question for the PvP Community

    Post by Aigaios on Wed Oct 02, 2013 8:56 am

    A question to the OP, what katana do you use most of the time and which one is your favorite?


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    Re: I Have a Question for the PvP Community

    Post by Leet on Wed Oct 02, 2013 8:58 am

    Iaito>

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    Re: I Have a Question for the PvP Community

    Post by AnCapaillMor on Wed Oct 02, 2013 9:25 am

    TooLeet wrote:
    AnCapaillMor wrote:Agree with juutas though, fighting the average katana user is like fighting a great scythe user, the fights will mainly consist of running L1's with the odd R2 added into it.
    Running L1s? silly 
    Umm i dropped my Ps3 controller and put the buttons back in wrong.


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    Re: I Have a Question for the PvP Community

    Post by Leet on Wed Oct 02, 2013 9:32 am

    AnCapaillMor wrote:
    TooLeet wrote:
    AnCapaillMor wrote:Agree with juutas though, fighting the average katana user is like fighting a great scythe user, the fights will mainly consist of running L1's with the odd R2 added into it.
    Running L1s? silly 
    Umm i dropped my Ps3 controller and put the buttons back in wrong.
    Impossibru. 

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    Re: I Have a Question for the PvP Community

    Post by The Letter X on Wed Oct 02, 2013 9:39 am

    TooLeet wrote:Iaito>
    Currently, yes.


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    Re: I Have a Question for the PvP Community

    Post by Aigaios on Wed Oct 02, 2013 9:54 am

    The Letter X wrote:
    TooLeet wrote:Iaito>
    Currently, yes.
    Personally, I have no problem with katanas, unless the user is buffing them with SLB or DMB so that they take half of my HP each hit, thats kinda annoying.

    The only katana that I do not like is the Chaos Blade because in my opinion the way it is designed makes only its R1 attacks effective . Its R2 attacks are so slow, hard to use effectively and easy to punish that apart from R1 attacks I see very little use for it.


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    Re: I Have a Question for the PvP Community

    Post by Leet on Wed Oct 02, 2013 10:04 am

    The Chaos blade looks the best out of all the katanas. It also does the most damage paired with 10 humanity. It also causes bleed the fastest. The R2's are do able. Not against experienced players unless they slip up. They're mostly the best used during wake ups but that's a free roll backstab.

    That's why i love the Iaito. The R2s are the best out of the katana's. I don't like the Uchi's pokes. You can do crazy combos with the Iaito and if you're not predictable with it you can end a match fairly fast.

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    Re: I Have a Question for the PvP Community

    Post by CrackSouls on Wed Oct 02, 2013 10:14 am

    Every weapon is legitimate. Every playstyle is legitimate.

    I have issues with poise backstabs, but I still consider those legitimate.

    Only issue I have is hacking. Do you hack? No? Than you are completely fine.
    To the OP: people who call you a noob or whatever just can't deal with losing. 
    They are the noobs.


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    Re: I Have a Question for the PvP Community

    Post by The Letter X on Wed Oct 02, 2013 10:57 am

    To clarify, I couldn't care less about being called a noob or anything else. I'm glad to hear that most of you don't care about seeing a katana anyway, but I want to know if someone who still hates seeing a katana would at least acknowledge everything I restrict myself from while using a katana.


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    Re: I Have a Question for the PvP Community

    Post by Lacedaemon on Wed Oct 02, 2013 11:44 am

    I don't understand all the hate on katana R1 spam. Actually let me rephrase that, I understand it, I just don't agree. If you can get beat by something as simple as soneone spamming the R1 button, you more than likely have no reason to complain other than because you're losing. For anyone here who knows me, you know that I love me some R1 regardless of what weapon im using (unless I'm spamming R2's on an Mlgs of course.) that being said back to more relevant post.
    Like has been said multiple times in the thread, do what you like, if its fun for you then who cares about what everyone else thinks? That might not be very good way to think about life XD but hey this is a video game meant for your enjoyment, use it that way!
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    Re: I Have a Question for the PvP Community

    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? on Wed Oct 02, 2013 11:53 am

    Why would I hate seeing katanas? I see them all the time, a katana, to me, just says, "Get ready for some Dark Souls PvP" nothing more, nothing less.


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