again Four Kings this time at SL1....

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    again Four Kings this time at SL1....

    Post by Micha369 on Mon Sep 30, 2013 6:48 am

    Hello folks,

    after getting little bored and pausing Dark Souls and after 4 month of playing DeS I'm back at Dark Souls again and having a lot of fun again.
    Atm I'm trying to do a SL1 run. Just want to see how far I manage this.
    And the first really challenge has just arrived: Four Kings!

    At SL1 I don't need to describe my toon much since it only can be a Pyro-toon with the given stats. Until now I didn't do a lot of bosses:

    I skipped Taurus (pvp area)

    Capra with help
    Gorgoyles with help
    Butterfly solo
    Sif solo
    Quelaag solo
    Sen's boss with Tarus (was it the npc's name?)

    Four Kings always can be tough, I once had my problems with them in ng+!

    But here I'm in ng. I tried them at least 15 times but don't see any progress.

    I do too little dmg and/or I have to heal myself too often which results into having more than only one king fighting me.

    My biggest problem is that I cannot dodge their hits nor can I get behind them. Some times I can roll to the left and don't get hit. But the biggest problem is the time. I don't have a lot of time to find a good opportunity to land a hit myself because the next king is already waiting.
    The problem might also be that the stamina bar often is too low and maybe I try to dodge but with too little stamina.

    I don't recognize the grab attack early enough. I cannot distinguish between the indicator of the grab attack and the magical AoE exprosion. He swivels around somehow in both attacks, doesn't he?

    You see, I really have massive problem.

    I have watched a few videos and in those videos they don't use a shield at all or they have the Grass Crest Shield on their back. Using the weapon 2H does make sense, of course, because of more dmg and better stamina recovery.
    But since I cannot dodge, I need a shield. And because of the magical AoE attack the Crest Shield seems to be a better choice.
    But as an agile, light fighter I don't see any hope.

    So I could do a very heavy armored fighter. But this is also bad because dodging isn't possible at all. So all hits will hurt me or, if blocked by my crest or grass crest shield, will reduce my stamina.

    Can you give me some advice to this really difficult boss?

    Which strategy (light and dodging or heavy and 2h r1 spamming) is more appropriate against 4K at sl1?

    What about the shield? Does it make sense to upgrade it to +14 only for this fight?

    My Weapon is the Lightning Axe+14 or should I use a different weapon, for example my Reinforced Club? But I would have to upgrade it at first to lightning +15. If I only had a few slabs!

    I really do want to learn how to dodge correctly but it seems too difficult with this stamina thing and with all the dark.
    There is also left only one slot for a ring! Which ring would you use in each strategy?

    Many thanks for your suggestions!


    Best wishes


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    Re: again Four Kings this time at SL1....

    Post by AnCapaillMor on Mon Sep 30, 2013 7:24 am

    I used a mix of pyromancy\great combustion and the lightning reinforced club+5(dark wraith slab drop). With the bellowing ring and dusk crown you should be doing decent damage and have enough to take out the first 2 quickyl enough. I used the wolf ring so i could heal myself without being knocked out of it.

    1 trick i did use was to summon beatrice and make a dash for the fog door before she arrived. doing this gets you the NPC but the boss gets no extra health for the summon becasue you entered the fog\iniatiated the fight before she arrived.


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    Re: again Four Kings this time at SL1....

    Post by Micha369 on Mon Sep 30, 2013 8:39 am

    AnCapaillMor wrote:I used a mix of pyromancy\great combustion and the lightning reinforced club+5(dark wraith slab drop). With the bellowing ring and dusk crown you should be doing decent damage and have enough to take out the first 2 quickyl enough. I used the wolf ring so i could heal myself without being knocked out of it.

    1 trick i did use was to summon beatrice and make a dash for the fog door before she arrived. doing this gets you the NPC but the boss gets no extra health for the summon becasue you entered the fog\iniatiated the fight before she arrived.
    Using this Wolf ring gives you 40 poise. Did you wear light armor that was less that 25% and without any poise?  I think to be able to dodge properly one need less than 25% of the max. equipment weigth, doesn't one?

    You suggest a Pyro strategy for me. Therefor I should use the bellowing ring and dusk crown. But as you said, to being able to heal without getting knocked out, I also would need some poise. This results in a heavy armored toon that is not able to dodge at all, right? No need for the wolf ring then leaving space for the bellowing ring.

    Thanks for the tip with Beatrice. I do have to fight the ghosts at first otherwise Beatrice could enter in a fight with them and won't follow me.

    Thanks for your help.


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    Re: again Four Kings this time at SL1....

    Post by AnCapaillMor on Mon Sep 30, 2013 8:46 am

    Usually just quick menu swapped mid fight between the rings. Only used the bellowing ring to use up the 8 great combustions then swapped to wolf.


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    Re: again Four Kings this time at SL1....

    Post by Micha369 on Mon Sep 30, 2013 8:59 am

    Thanks!

    I just found a video of a Pyro strategy that seems to work efficiently:

    for all having trouble with 4K: start watching at 5:34

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4pfY76dMLs&feature=youtu.be


    I'll try this the next time! But I still need havels armor and the dusk crown!
    I do already have the stone armor from the forest, will it do as well?

    EDIT: Stone set is almost as good as Havels Set (all values w/o the helmets):

              stone set/ havels set:
    poise:         85 /      103
    Phy. prot.: 199/      200
    weight:     38,5/       42,5

     

    Best wishes.


    Last edited by Micha369 on Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:26 am; edited 1 time in total


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    Re: again Four Kings this time at SL1....

    Post by Green__Eagle on Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:21 am

    Here's my SL1 fight against the Four Kings. In this challenge, pyro was not allowed. Stamina regeneration really wasn't needed either. May this give you some insight for your fight.




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    Re: again Four Kings this time at SL1....

    Post by Micha369 on Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:46 am

    Hello Green__Eagle,

    I actually found your video on the weekend already, but thanks anyway!
    It all looks so easy watching these videos!!

    You did it with a weight load of below 50%. With only 9 poise and 242 phys. protect. and 187 magical protect and the ring of steel protection. And with two shields! Really amazing!
    But how do you know that the King is about to perform his magical attack so you swapped to crest shield? Or will he always do it while far away from him?

    Your dodging works perfectly, I have to admire!

    I really would like to beat 4 kings without pyro myself!

    EDIT:

    Oh dear, I just saw that most of your equipment was upgraded to the max, which requires quite a few ores. So I have to start to farm all the darkwraiths for hours for the slabs.

    EDIT2:
    when you enter the fog you "pop humanity" why did you do this? You already had 49 in the slot at that point. And what does one gain by doing this anyway?
    EDIT3:
    I didn't know that the king's grab attack takes away humanity!
    But if I don't have any humanity in my stock, he cannot steal any.
    EDIT4:
    sorry, but I have so many questions:
    since I'm a non native english speaker, I didn't understand the thing you mentioned about using the home bone or going back to the fog gate depending on the amount of estus flasks one has. I don't understand the strategy behind this, I'm afraid.
    EDIT5:
    where does all those whiffs come from? I do already noticed such misses in my earlier fights with 4K! Is it the wrong distance to the king?


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    Re: again Four Kings this time at SL1....

    Post by Green__Eagle on Tue Oct 01, 2013 6:10 am

    Let's start with the premise that you are fighting the Four Kings solo because if you have help, you cannot quit during the middle of a fight.

    If a King grabs you and you have less than half health in your bar: quit the game. When you reload your game you will be standing outside the fog gate to the boss. If you have a lot of Estus Flasks left in your inventory, you can enter the fog gate and fight the Kings again. If you are almost out of Estus Flasks you may decide to use the Home Bone to return to the last bonfire you rested at to refill your flasks and repair your equipment.

    At 3:46 in the video, the King backs away from you. They will always shoot magic when they do that.

    At 3:57, 4:08, 4:19, and 4:59 in the video, the King "wraps up" and he will always do a magic blast.

    At 4:42 and 4:49, the King "rears back" as if they were going to throw a ball and they throw magic.

    When a King grabs you, you will lose almost half health AND a soft humanity from your counter. If you don't have a humanity in your counter, I believe they kill you. Soft humanity in your counter increases your defenses, too. The reason I have so much humanity in my counter is because the Kings kept killing me and I was able to reclaim my blood spoor.

    I popped a humanity after I switched from the Child's Mask to the Mother's Mask to fill my health bar. I have a theory that maybe the Kings are stronger if you walk through the boss gate with more health. Increasing my health bar on the inside of the fog gate may have given me a slight advantage. Notice at 3:29 in video I have just a sliver of health left. Perhaps wearing the Mask of the Mother gave me just that little bit extra health that I needed to survive.

    I wasn't that great on dodging; I got hit quite a few times. The Balder Shield allowed me to get hit before I got close to a King.

    As to your concern about my equipment being at maximum: The Silver Knight Gauntlet and the Painted Guardian Waistcoat were upgraded using Twinkling titanite. The Shields do not need to be at maximum, but the Lightning Reinforced Club+5 should be at maximum. You could win this fight using only one slab on your main weapon.

    Concerning the wiffs: I was too anxious to attack and I missed my target because the King moved or I was attacking at an angle.

    Good Luck on your battle; winning solo is an awesome feeling!


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    Re: again Four Kings this time at SL1....

    Post by Micha369 on Tue Oct 01, 2013 10:54 am

    Many thanks for your comprehensive explanations! This gave me a lot of new motivation! Looking forward to fighting the Kings!

    At the moment I haven't even started my way to the pin wheel yet so I only have 10 estus flasks. I hope I'll soon learn this dodging thing!

    Didn't know this game quitting technique!

    Will let you know how I progress with this boss!

    best wishes!


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    Re: again Four Kings this time at SL1....

    Post by Hue on Tue Oct 01, 2013 11:47 am

    BDCR+Crown of Dusk+pyro flame+Black Flame+Great Combustion+Seance Ring+Power Within.

    Cast Power Within, replace seance ring with abyss ring



    Goodness


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    Re: again Four Kings this time at SL1....

    Post by chantienyee on Tue Oct 01, 2013 4:22 pm

    Whenever I have trouble with Four Kings with a low SL, I remember how easy they are in full Havel's (minus helmet for Crown of Dusk)... It makes ALL the difference. Just tank them with that poise and physical defense (allows you to hold onto your Bellowing Dragoncrest Ring for pyros too) -- cake.


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    Re: again Four Kings this time at SL1....

    Post by Micha369 on Wed Oct 02, 2013 5:22 am

    Yesterday I finally managed them! I tried about 30 times to dodge them. But l always got confused with the Shields switching and one hand to two hand switching and healing between the attacks and dodging the grab or the magical attack.
    I always did s.th. wrong!
    So I was just about to give it up when the tank strategy came back into my mind.

    This worked on the third trial!
    Happy now being a Darkwraith myself!


    But the next challenges are waiting already! Hopefully I will not have to surrender against any of the next bosses like Seth, Nito, Firesage, Centipede, Bed of Chaos, and the DLC Bosses!

    Thanks to all of your help!


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    Re: again Four Kings this time at SL1....

    Post by Hue on Wed Oct 02, 2013 9:08 am

    Apart from Centipede, and Kalameet and Manus, you should be fine.
    Kalameet will rustle your jimmies to no end


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    Re: again Four Kings this time at SL1....

    Post by Micha369 on Wed Oct 02, 2013 9:39 am

    Luckily, Kalameet is optional.
    But Gwyn Lord of Cinder should be hard as well, I guess.


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    Re: again Four Kings this time at SL1....

    Post by chantienyee on Wed Oct 02, 2013 11:40 am

    Yeah, surprisingly Gwyn gave me possibly the most grief in my SL1. Balder Shield helped a TON with its stability. That may have been the biggest help for me. No tanking that one.


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    Re: again Four Kings this time at SL1....

    Post by TheMeInTeam on Mon Oct 07, 2013 10:43 am

    I've never had luck with tank strategy on 4kings except in regular NG with good gear. Otherwise they occasionally animate push their way into a full damage hit and I have no time to heal. Blocking even with havel's shield chews too much stamina.

    Dodging rules for 4kings:

    1. Roll into swings. Most of the time this means rolling left, but on his double swing you roll right. The timing for this is very forgiving.

    2. Grab + magic blast: These two are a pain. The initial tell is the same. As soon as you see it, back roll away. If it's a magic blast, they'll start the charging animation as you back roll. If it's a grab, they won't. Roll to the side just after the king starts moving at you for the grab and he'll miss.

    3. Homing attack: I don't see a way to avoid eating this. If you have a shield that can viable do so, block it. Otherwise ignore it and keep attacking the king until it hits you. Dodging it for any meaningful period of time just lets more kings spawn.

    The attack that looks like homing crystal soul mass or whatever is a joke and can be avoided with a simple roll if you're in its range.

    Damage race is important in this battle, so if you're using an elemental weapon pick up power within and if not running FaP use lingering ring if you can afford it (if not, that's fine). The damage boost is no joke. Lightning reinforced club or hand axe are both acceptable options at SL 1.


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    Re: again Four Kings this time at SL1....

    Post by Micha369 on Mon Oct 07, 2013 11:21 am

    TheMeInTeam wrote:I've never had luck with tank strategy on 4kings except in regular NG with good gear.  Otherwise they occasionally animate push their way into a full damage hit and I have no time to heal.  Blocking even with havel's shield chews too much stamina.

    This is the reason why I will not enter ng+ with my sl1 toon. I cannot dodge 4K, unfortunately.


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    Re: again Four Kings this time at SL1....

    Post by TheMeInTeam on Mon Oct 07, 2013 12:34 pm

    If you can make tanking work, however, you can probably do something like this:

    http://mmdks.com/480f

    Still, IMO dodging is ultimately the easier way through the fight once you know the tells + ways to roll. Tanking stops to heal and blocking pushes you back + eats more stamina than rolling + running in.


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    Re: again Four Kings this time at SL1....

    Post by Micha369 on Tue Oct 22, 2013 9:12 am

    yes, you are right!

    in my next playthrough (the one after my sl1 run) I gained some success of dodging them fairly well.

    Need to quicky do another playthrough to stay trained!

    Now I've started a sl 3 Sorcerer playthrough, which is even harder than a sl1 pyromancer. Because my sorcerer only can use a dagger. I'm really lookin gforward in doing this 4K fight!


    I just had to learn that a Sorcerer also can use a short sword. So the question is,
    which weapon does more dmg/sec?

    lightning shortswort+5 does 195+195 and weighs 2 kg
    lightning dagger+5 does 140+140 and weighs 0,5 kg


    Do you guys know the answer?

    Should I go and run to Vamos with a dagger or with a Shortsword to make it a Fire weapon +5?



    thx


    best wishes


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    Re: again Four Kings this time at SL1....

    Post by TheMeInTeam on Tue Oct 22, 2013 12:03 pm

    Any lightning +5 will work.  Here's an example:

    http://mmdks.com/4dfe

    Lingering to keep power within going longer and 2h your weapon except if kings fire a homing attack.  Not only does PW boost your damage, it boosts your stamina regen greatly which is a big help with 8 stamina.  Best of all, you can get it + glove without farming easily.

    Armor is your choice, I just threw on sorcerer set because it's default and light enough.

    This setup should absolutely murder 4kings as long as you dodge most of their attacks.  You'll probably wait around for the last king.


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    Re: again Four Kings this time at SL1....

    Post by Micha369 on Wed Oct 23, 2013 11:57 am

    You have chosen a Lightning Hand Axe +5, there are two more options:
    Lightning Shortswort +5
    Lightning Dagger +5.

    You mean all of them will do enough dps?






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    Re: again Four Kings this time at SL1....

    Post by TheMeInTeam on Wed Oct 23, 2013 3:38 pm

    I haven't tested or seen the dagger/shortsword testing. They do less damage/hit IIRC, but the dagger might attack faster by enough to compensate...not sure on that.

    If you use PW, any of them would work I'm pretty sure.


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    Re: again Four Kings this time at SL1....

    Post by reim0027 on Wed Oct 23, 2013 9:53 pm

    I've done the twice at a low SL. I tank it up and use pyro or a fast swinging fire weapon.


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    Re: again Four Kings this time at SL1....

    Post by DrMechano on Wed Oct 30, 2013 2:36 am

    Tried to do four kings as early as possible in my Soul Level 1 run, just to experiment how early I could get it done.

    Beat the following bosses before doing 4 kings:
    1) Sif: First true boss I fought, had my reinforced club upgraded to +5 Fire club. Bonus of buying the seal is access to the Stone Set.
    2) Capra Demon: Gain access to Depths and thus the Pyromancy trainer at firelink and from that the Pyromancy trainer in Blighttown, allowing me to farm to get my Pyroglove maxed and access to both Combustion and Great Combustion.
    3) Gaping Dragon: Easy souls.
    4) Pinwheel: Rite of Kindling for the 20 Estus flasks.

    Equipment used: Crest Shield (to block the magic AoE damage and the magic homing attack which it did wonderfully, cost all my endurance to block the AoE but nullfied a huge portion of their damage nicely), Stone Set (so I can just keep spamming/swinging), +5 Fire Club, fully upgraded Pyromancy glove, Great Combustion and Combustion (due to the spamability of both those).

    If I wanted to be a bit more patient I could have beaten Quelaag and Ceaseless and grabbed the Large Flame Ember and gotten the club to +8 but eh wanted to see if I could do it as early as possible.

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    Re: again Four Kings this time at SL1....

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      Current date/time is Fri Apr 28, 2017 3:01 pm