strongest human in dark souls

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    Re: strongest human in dark souls

    Post by CakeThiefPro on Thu Sep 26, 2013 11:39 am

    NathanC wrote:
    Darkfallen wrote:If I could, I say Solaire of Astora. He is thought to be Lord Gwyn's Firstborn though he dropped his Deity status he would still hold some of the great power that he use to have when he was a Deity Making him practically the strongest besides the chosen undead, He assists the Chosen Undead in defeating Gwyn and other outworldly creatures along the Chosen Undeads quest. Thats if your going into the lore of the characters, cause Havel may be able to remove a dragons tooth and hold it up but he can barely swing the thing let alone move in his massive gear. Havel may be strong strength wise but other than that he has to many flaws that would get him killed quickly. My Opinion on this.


    ~Darkfallen~
    The problem I have with this is that not only does Solaire get destroyed from the Gaping Dragon onwards (he's still a useful distraction) but also Havel may have been tricked rather than defeated. I feel in game we and Solaire never fight anything on the everlasting dragons level except maybe Kalameet but Solaire, as far as we know, never even fights Kalameet so in terms of strength I think Havel would just beat Solaire down.


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    Re: strongest human in dark souls

    Post by homelessguy on Thu Sep 26, 2013 12:35 pm

    WARNING WARNING NEW CHALLENGER APPROACH
     
    the legends is by far the strongest human I mean the legend never dies no one can beat him
    he curbs Havel like a normal undead hollow. 
    he took 4 dumps and they became lord souls.   
    make all boss fight look casual.
    and the special bass cannon will make dark magic look under power.
    he also got to new game +9001.
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    Re: strongest human in dark souls

    Post by NathanC on Thu Sep 26, 2013 12:51 pm

    homelessguy wrote:WARNING WARNING NEW CHALLENGER APPROACH
     
    the legends is by far the strongest human I mean the legend never dies no one can beat him
    he curbs Havel like a normal undead hollow. 
    he took 4 dumps and they became lord souls.   
    make all boss fight look casual.
    and the special bass cannon will make dark magic look under power.
    he also got to new game +9001.
    I didn't see my name up on the poll?


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    Re: strongest human in dark souls

    Post by homelessguy on Thu Sep 26, 2013 1:21 pm

    can I add another name to poll and if so how ??
    thank you in advance =)
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    Re: strongest human in dark souls

    Post by Soul of Stray Demon on Thu Sep 26, 2013 5:20 pm

    homelessguy wrote:can I add another name to poll and if so how ??
    thank you in advance =)
    No, but you can ask a forum moderator to change it for you. But I think it will erase all prior votes.

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    Re: strongest human in dark souls

    Post by SpecterOranges on Thu Sep 26, 2013 6:32 pm

    Wait, it's so simple. The winner is obviously the furtive pygmy, so easily forgotten. He split the dark soul which resulted in every undead human effectively being a scattered army. If any individual soldier in that army wins against someone in that list that someone has in effect lost to the furtive pygmy's tactical battle.

    Ergo, the furtive pygmy is the strongest human.

    ALL HAIL MANUS!
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    Re: strongest human in dark souls

    Post by Soul of Stray Demon on Thu Sep 26, 2013 6:36 pm

    SpecterOranges wrote:Wait, it's so simple. The winner is obviously the furtive pygmy, so easily forgotten. He split the dark soul which resulted in every undead human effectively being a scattered army. If any individual soldier in that army wins against someone in that list that someone has in effect lost to the furtive pygmy's tactical battle.

    Ergo, the furtive pygmy is the strongest human.

    ALL HAIL MANUS!
    Chester is furtive pygmy then..... He's working with Elizabeth to get rid of his competition so they say that the real furtive pygmy is Manus (because they suspect you will kill him because you are working with the gods) . hehehehhehehe Crazy theory for the win.

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    Re: strongest human in dark souls

    Post by SpecterOranges on Thu Sep 26, 2013 6:38 pm

    I like to think Havel was Gwyn's son.

    Also, don't you mean crazy theory for the GWYN? Huh? HUH!? (Puns aren't funny...)
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    Re: strongest human in dark souls

    Post by Soul of Stray Demon on Thu Sep 26, 2013 6:46 pm

    SpecterOranges wrote:I like to think Havel was Gwyn's son.

    Also, don't you mean crazy theory for the GWYN? Huh? HUH!? (Puns aren't funny...)
    Puns are Punny.... I say.

    Chester is king, he's fast, he has range, he has bleed, high health, and he can stunlock any enemy with less then however much poise three shots from a sniper crossbow breaks.... (info which I can't find ANYWHERE) Someone test this, how much does a crossbow break of poise damage, and (from what I can find on it, does a light crossbow wooden bolt break less poise then a heavy crossbow with heavy bolts?)

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    Re: strongest human in dark souls

    Post by Demon Slayer on Thu Sep 26, 2013 6:52 pm

    Havel. nothing more


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    Re: strongest human in dark souls

    Post by SpecterOranges on Thu Sep 26, 2013 7:33 pm

    Soul of Stray Demon wrote:
    SpecterOranges wrote:I like to think Havel was Gwyn's son.

    Also, don't you mean crazy theory for the GWYN? Huh? HUH!? (Puns aren't funny...)
    Puns are Punny.... I say.

    Chester is king, he's fast, he has range, he has bleed, high health, and he can stunlock any enemy with less then however much poise three shots from a sniper crossbow breaks.... (info which I can't find ANYWHERE) Someone test this, how much does a crossbow break of poise damage, and (from what I can find on it, does a light crossbow wooden bolt break less poise then a heavy crossbow with heavy bolts?)
    *stabs chester until he stops being*

    Well. Guess the furtive pygmy's plan won.
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    Re: strongest human in dark souls

    Post by Darkfallen on Thu Sep 26, 2013 10:38 pm

    CakeThiefPro wrote:
    NathanC wrote:
    Darkfallen wrote:If I could, I say Solaire of Astora. He is thought to be Lord Gwyn's Firstborn though he dropped his Deity status he would still hold some of the great power that he use to have when he was a Deity Making him practically the strongest besides the chosen undead, He assists the Chosen Undead in defeating Gwyn and other outworldly creatures along the Chosen Undeads quest. Thats if your going into the lore of the characters, cause Havel may be able to remove a dragons tooth and hold it up but he can barely swing the thing let alone move in his massive gear. Havel may be strong strength wise but other than that he has to many flaws that would get him killed quickly. My Opinion on this.


    ~Darkfallen~
    The problem I have with this is that not only does Solaire get destroyed from the Gaping Dragon onwards (he's still a useful distraction) but also Havel may have been tricked rather than defeated. I feel in game we and Solaire never fight anything on the everlasting dragons level except maybe Kalameet but Solaire, as far as we know, never even fights Kalameet so in terms of strength I think Havel would just beat Solaire down.
    Game Mechanics vs Actual Lore / realistic fight, Solaire would never be as stupid as he acts in the game when he fights due to his game mechanics, I never saw Havel fight alongside the Chosen undead and aid in the defeat of Ornstein and Smough, Centipede demon, Lord Gwyn himself. No Havel would die as soon as step up to A man like Gwyn and Why? He can hit like a train but when he goes up against someone who can move to fast he won't be able to win with all his armor and his massive and heavy dragon's tooth ((Which a human, Even Havel, Wouldn't be able to move around fast in, let alone swing)) . Solaire wins hands down against havel in a actual realistic battle. ((NathanC this isn't a comment on what you said, In game I agree Havel can move and dodge quite fast, though its simply game mechanics, Your right none the less on that))


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    Re: strongest human in dark souls

    Post by CakeThiefPro on Fri Sep 27, 2013 6:11 am

    Darkfallen wrote:Game Mechanics vs Actual Lore / realistic fight, Solaire would never be as stupid as he acts in the game when he fights due to his game mechanics, I never saw Havel fight alongside the Chosen undead and aid in the defeat of Ornstein and Smough, Centipede demon, Lord Gwyn himself. No Havel would die as soon as step up to A man like Gwyn and Why? He can hit like a train but when he goes up against someone who can move to fast he won't be able to win with all his armor and his massive and heavy dragon's tooth ((Which a human, Even Havel, Wouldn't be able to move around fast in, let alone swing)) . Solaire wins hands down against havel in a actual realistic battle. ((NathanC this isn't a comment on what you said, In game I agree Havel can move and dodge quite fast, though its simply game mechanics, Your right none the less on that))
    Ok, lore: Havel has slain Ever Lasting Dragons and actually felt he may be strong enough to lead a rebellion against the gods, Solaire has beaten an extremely weakened Gwyn. I actually don't remember seeing anything directly saying Havel is a human so he might be the same race as Ciran/Artorias. But I'm certain Solaire is not nearly strong enough to slay an ELD as even the player character cannot do so. Havel would probably one shot Solaire.

    Realistic Fight: Havel has great magic barrier so lightning bolts barely hurt him. He has his shields buff so that Solaires sword would probably bounce off him or brake in half. Solaire would eventually get tired of rolling around in heavy metal armour simply to try and attack Havel at a point he wont be insta killed from. Havel just has to wait for him to tire and swing once to one shot Solaire. 

    Game Mechanics: Havel is surprisingly fast and Solaire is painfully stupid. Havel wins easily.


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    Re: strongest human in dark souls

    Post by Acarnatia on Fri Sep 27, 2013 8:59 am

    Great Magic Barrier doesn't affect lightning damage. Also, the chosen undead actually does kill Seath and CAN kill Kalameet without Gough's help-and Kalameet was so mighty that 'even Anor Londo dared not provoke his ire.' That means he was so strong in combat that the gods and Havel just said 'Nope.' and walked away, whereas the Chosen Undead actually kills him-meaning the Chosen Undead takes on a stronger dragon than Anor Londo and Havel ever did.


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    Re: strongest human in dark souls

    Post by CakeThiefPro on Fri Sep 27, 2013 9:27 am

    Acarnatia wrote:Great Magic Barrier doesn't affect lightning damage. Also, the chosen undead actually does kill Seath and CAN kill Kalameet without Gough's help-and Kalameet was so mighty that 'even Anor Londo dared not provoke his ire.' That means he was so strong in combat that the gods and Havel just said 'Nope.' and walked away, whereas the Chosen Undead actually kills him-meaning the Chosen Undead takes on a stronger dragon than Anor Londo and Havel ever did.
    Great magic barrier doesn't affect lightning damage? Never really used it but oh well Havels shield could tank the bolts.

    Also we weren't arguing over the chosen undead, we were arguing over Solaire who at no point takes on Kalameet as far as we know. Seath is insane and I'm pretty sure his intellect is what made him so useful during the war. I mean why even have a way to get to the crystal other than from the top so that only flying creatures could get to it and why does he stop flying when he fights us rather than just crystallising the whole area in front of the crystal while we can't even touch him without a bow... 

    Also I'm still not convinced Anor Londo feared Kalameet. I mean Gough brought him down with one shot, another to the head could kill him, certainly a group of Anor Londo silver knight archers with Ornstein would probably take him. I think Anor Londo had already been weakened by this point due to the Chaos War or the Occult rebellion or maybe they were helping Astora with its Abyss problem at the same time. Basically I think it would cost too much to defeat Kalameet but that doesn't mean they weren't able to.


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    Re: strongest human in dark souls

    Post by homelessguy on Fri Sep 27, 2013 10:40 am

    I would just like to say it never said Havel killed any dragons
    it states he in war but I could I have cleaned Ornstein's spear and still be counted as in the war. for all we know he may have been a master tactician that led his troops to beat an dragon (and then took it's tooth) for all we know his troops could have been 1000 trained men and silver knights.


    am I saying Havel is weak ??  no I just saying it very unlikely he killed a dragon that was in perfect health and average power as far as dragon go on his own (I wonder if his armour was made before or after the Dragon wars ) as far as his power I always felt he got a little lord soul buff (like 4 kings ) from lord Gwyn but before this buff he was still tarkus level of strength (lore wise)

    it does not even say he took the tooth for a dragon only that it was created from a dragons tooth
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    Re: strongest human in dark souls

    Post by CakeThiefPro on Fri Sep 27, 2013 11:27 am

    It is unlikely that Havel killed a fully health dragon on his own but not impossible. But he did have his own unit of men and became a Bishop which means he was either incredibly strong or smart. Either way he survived the Dragon wars whilst most likely fighting on the front line and leading one of the toughest units going. It's not like he could respawn at a bonfire if he *** up, he had to win every fight the first time or die which requires strength and intellect Solaire simply doesn't have. Now how many people killed Kalameet their first try? Yeh...


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    Re: strongest human in dark souls

    Post by homelessguy on Fri Sep 27, 2013 11:48 am

    I did =)  (got dlc and killed him with my dragon slayer Ornstein cosplay went balls deep with no shield I thought it was pretty easy at 1st then on my next chosen undead **** got real )

    I agree have >sunbro

    I just wanted to say he was getting a bit 2 much praise (the sun)
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    Re: strongest human in dark souls

    Post by CakeThiefPro on Fri Sep 27, 2013 11:52 am

    homelessguy wrote:I did =)  (got dlc and killed him with my dragon slayer Ornstein cosplay went balls deep with no shield I thought it was pretty easy at 1st then on my next chosen undead **** got real )

    I agree have >sunbro

    I just wanted to say he was getting a bit 2 much praise (the sun)
    Waahh doesn't he have to kill you for Gough to shoot him down? I know you can shoot him yourself but I don't think you can mellee him without Goughs help or does Gough help you before you go into the area somehow? 

    I didn't play the dlc nearly as much as I did the rest of the game x)


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    Re: strongest human in dark souls

    Post by Darkfallen on Fri Sep 27, 2013 11:53 am

    I stand by my words, the sheer realism of the fact that havel would never be able to constantly attack with a massive dragon's tooth over and over again while constantly trying to block attacks with a shield that weighs more than he does multiplied by at least 10 - 20 times that. he just doesn't have the power and as stated he was in the war but it never specified if Solaire was not in the war aswell, Solaire is thought to be Gwyn's Firstborn which would mean he himself would also have been in the war killing dragons with his mighty bolts of lightning so Havel could go suck on that. Also on that fact Havel despises Magic, It never states that he has a Great magic barrier, It only states that he managed to find a way around it with Dragons like Seath who have great magic sorceries. What your missing is the sheer realism that havel would never be able to do what he does In game after he was locked away for what he did, His gear is just to heavy and the lord soul piece he may have acquired was most likely removed from his grasp after he was locked away, Going against gods would be cause of removal of his lord soul piece thus removing his power to wield the massive gear he was able to before hand and Turning him Undead.

    Please try to get out of Game mechanics world and step into the realm of Realism and see the truth behind what havel would be in a world where Weight actually matters.

    ~Darkfallen~


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    Re: strongest human in dark souls

    Post by SpecterOranges on Fri Sep 27, 2013 12:05 pm

    Darkfallen wrote:I stand by my words, the sheer realism of the fact that havel would never be able to constantly attack with a massive dragon's tooth over and over again while constantly trying to block attacks with a shield that weighs more than he does multiplied by at least 10 - 20 times that. he just doesn't have the power and as stated he was in the war but it never specified if Solaire was not in the war aswell, Solaire is thought to be Gwyn's Firstborn which would mean he himself would also have been in the war killing dragons with his mighty bolts of lightning so Havel could go suck on that. Also on that fact Havel despises Magic, It never states that he has a Great magic barrier, It only states that he managed to find a way around it with Dragons like Seath who have great magic sorceries. What your missing is the sheer realism that havel would never be able to do what he does In game after he was locked away for what he did, His gear is just to heavy and the lord soul piece he may have acquired was most likely removed from his grasp after he was locked away, Going against gods would be cause of removal of his lord soul piece thus removing his power to wield the massive gear he was able to before hand and Turning him Undead.

    Please try to get out of Game mechanics world and step into the realm of Realism and see the truth behind what havel would be in a world where Weight actually matters.

    ~Darkfallen~
    Miracle of Bishop Havel the Rock.
    Cover body in powerful def. magic coating.

    Havel the Rock, an old battlefield compatriot
    of Lord Gwyn, was the sworn enemy of Seath
    the Scaleless. He despised magic, and made
    certain to devise means of counteraction.



    He invented it. He just happens to not have a talisman in the game mechanics.

    Now who can't step out of game mechanics world?
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    Re: strongest human in dark souls

    Post by Darkfallen on Fri Sep 27, 2013 12:09 pm

    He invented it but never uses it. You just happened to be the person who went to look at an ingame Items description to put it up and claim me for speaking of Game Mechanics instead of lore though I never said anything about in game stuff in my post there besides the fact that havel never uses it and Despises magic for it states it clearly in the lore of the man.

    one flaw about what I said against the thousands of stuff you couldnt argue against I like to think this is over and that Havel would fall


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    Re: strongest human in dark souls

    Post by NathanC on Fri Sep 27, 2013 12:13 pm

    Darkfallen wrote:I stand by my words, the sheer realism of the fact that havel would never be able to constantly attack with a massive dragon's tooth over and over again while constantly trying to block attacks with a shield that weighs more than he does multiplied by at least 10 - 20 times that. he just doesn't have the power and as stated he was in the war but it never specified if Solaire was not in the war aswell, Solaire is thought to be Gwyn's Firstborn which would mean he himself would also have been in the war killing dragons with his mighty bolts of lightning so Havel could go suck on that. Also on that fact Havel despises Magic, It never states that he has a Great magic barrier, It only states that he managed to find a way around it with Dragons like Seath who have great magic sorceries. What your missing is the sheer realism that havel would never be able to do what he does In game after he was locked away for what he did, His gear is just to heavy and the lord soul piece he may have acquired was most likely removed from his grasp after he was locked away, Going against gods would be cause of removal of his lord soul piece thus removing his power to wield the massive gear he was able to before hand and Turning him Undead.

    Please try to get out of Game mechanics world and step into the realm of Realism and see the truth behind what havel would be in a world where Weight actually matters.

    ~Darkfallen~
    I think if realism was the determining factor here this debate would have ended 3 pages ago.

    Just my two cents.


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    Re: strongest human in dark souls

    Post by Darkfallen on Fri Sep 27, 2013 12:16 pm

    NathanC wrote:
    Darkfallen wrote:I stand by my words, the sheer realism of the fact that havel would never be able to constantly attack with a massive dragon's tooth over and over again while constantly trying to block attacks with a shield that weighs more than he does multiplied by at least 10 - 20 times that. he just doesn't have the power and as stated he was in the war but it never specified if Solaire was not in the war aswell, Solaire is thought to be Gwyn's Firstborn which would mean he himself would also have been in the war killing dragons with his mighty bolts of lightning so Havel could go suck on that. Also on that fact Havel despises Magic, It never states that he has a Great magic barrier, It only states that he managed to find a way around it with Dragons like Seath who have great magic sorceries. What your missing is the sheer realism that havel would never be able to do what he does In game after he was locked away for what he did, His gear is just to heavy and the lord soul piece he may have acquired was most likely removed from his grasp after he was locked away, Going against gods would be cause of removal of his lord soul piece thus removing his power to wield the massive gear he was able to before hand and Turning him Undead.

    Please try to get out of Game mechanics world and step into the realm of Realism and see the truth behind what havel would be in a world where Weight actually matters.

    ~Darkfallen~
    I think if realism was the determining factor here this debate would have ended 3 pages ago.

    Just my two cents.
    Indeed, which is why I am done on the matter, I feel that I have said enough on this one debate and its time it dies slowly.


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    Re: strongest human in dark souls

    Post by CakeThiefPro on Fri Sep 27, 2013 12:29 pm

    Pretty sure if this was based on realism Havel would be a giant paper weight and pieces of cloth wouldn't shoot lightning bolts if you'd heard the right story... 

    Tbh assuming Havel had enough strength to swing the Tooth once or twice then he'd still kill Solaire. Knights can't casually jog in a circle around their enemy as far as I know and if they try rolling on the ground I suspect they stay on the ground with that armour. I doubt Solaire is getting through Havels shield and armour before Havel gets through his in a straight up fight.

    I'll let this die now...


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