That's No Moon (Star Wars Thread)

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    Re: That's No Moon (Star Wars Thread)

    Post by Tolvo on Sun Mar 11, 2012 11:46 am

    Yeah Serious, he has extremely sold out. He lets his family members write episodes for that children's cartoon he has, and then states about how it is in fact Star Wars lore...Which is why the Force now has gods sadly.
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    Re: That's No Moon (Star Wars Thread)

    Post by Serious_Much on Sun Mar 11, 2012 11:48 am

    Really? God's in the force? that's kinda retarded considering the concept of it..

    Anyway I'm gonna get outta the way of you guys, I'm no expert in star wars by any means


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    Re: That's No Moon (Star Wars Thread)

    Post by Tolvo on Sun Mar 11, 2012 11:50 am

    Why, I've studied at eight years and got my masters in Star Wars. You obviously have not experienced and been taught enough, I imagine you've gone to some silly community Star Wars college, studying the Ewok adventures, bah!

    It's cool if you stick around Serious, you don't need to know about the Ruusan Reformation or Infinite empire, I'm cool with talking about movies and games as well.

    Yeah, it's a holy trinity as well. Gee Lucas, I wonder what you were implying with that.
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    Re: That's No Moon (Star Wars Thread)

    Post by PlasticandRage on Sun Mar 11, 2012 1:28 pm

    Forum Pirate wrote:Wars books > wars movies.

    I highly doubt that. Or at least, I highly doubt that will be my perspective of it. The original 3 films, this sounds a little funny to say but, really kind of mean a lot in my life. My earliest memory of going to see a movie in the theater was Return of the Jedi with my dad. I agree that Episode 1 and 2 are sub par, at least in the shadow of 4-6, but I thought 3 was deserving of praise. It tied everything together, and I thought did it pretty well. Anakin becomes Vader, Padme? dies in child birth, Luke goes to Tatooine, Leia to Alderan, Yoda to exile. The last hour of the film is just intensly good in my opinion. From order 66 on. There's also the light saber duel between Obi Wan and Anakin/Yoda and the Emperor. Those are pretty great battles, I don't care who ya are, you liked watching those battles. If you say you didn't your lying.
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    Re: That's No Moon (Star Wars Thread)

    Post by Tolvo on Sun Mar 11, 2012 1:46 pm

    I wouldn't say that's all too odd. I work with directors and actors who love to talk about films, and while my all time favourite film is Sunrise: A Song of Two Humans, my favourite shot in all of film history is Luke looking out at the twin suns of Tat. I do enjoy the books more, now. But I do have to say watching the original trilogy still sends a chill down my spine.

    I actually really didn't care for the fights in those films, for me they were just so inhuman. Everything was set up absolutely perfect, and really absurd in my opinion at times. Fighting inches above lava while swinging on wires to cut at each other as they are swinging towards one another? I wonder what would happen if someone aimed for the wire not the other person haha. For me I enjoy the duels in Hope, Empire, and Return a lot more. My favourite duel of all time would probably have to be the one from Empire even though my favourite Star Wars film is Hope.

    EDIT: Also maybe I should lean the topic in a direction away from Old vs. New, since that can get pretty heated.

    What is your favourite duel and why?

    For me it is Vader and Luke in Empire, the struggle with such a dominating opponent who tears you apart physically and mentally. The failing to come in time to rescue your friends only to be brought into a trap, everything was on the lines. And in the end there is the great reveal, and Luke's temptation which he resists. Overall I just find that duel to be great on so many levels, mostly because it isn't just a lightsaber fight.
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    Re: That's No Moon (Star Wars Thread)

    Post by berkut on Sun Mar 11, 2012 2:36 pm

    Wow! So much Star Wars since I last checked! Favorite duel, that is hard, perhaps an interesting one was not a physical duel per se, but the duel across all of the movies between Vader and Palpatine emotionally. The manipulation of Vader's thoughts and feelings vs. Vader's feelings towards Luke, which ultimately led into the final act of Palpatine electrocuting Luke on the second death star, and Vader finally winning the mental struggle, breaking free of Palpatine's manipulations to save Luke


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    Re: That's No Moon (Star Wars Thread)

    Post by Tolvo on Sun Mar 11, 2012 2:47 pm

    That scene is always amazing, Vader finally breaking free of the control and showing just how powerful of a person he was within. Something I've always felt was that while many consider Vader weak for falling in the first place, I've got to say with Palpatines possible abilities who really could have resisted him? His breaking free I've always thought shows just how powerful of a person he really is.
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    Re: That's No Moon (Star Wars Thread)

    Post by berkut on Sun Mar 11, 2012 2:59 pm

    Indeed, the power of Palpatine was immense, his intelligence and cunning allowing him to manipulate the whole galaxy, and his powers in the force providing him the ability to influence the minds of everyone on whole planets (it started with a B, was mentioned in Empire at War). The thing that Palpatine ultimately forgot to factor in though was one of the most blatant powers to exist in mankind. The power of love, love of ones family, love of ones friends, love of ones beliefs. While I suppose it is true that Palpatine manage to corrupt some of these in Vader (friends and beliefs), by the time of the final movie in the timeline, his presumption that Vader was so completely under his influence prevented him from remembering the power that love for ones family can have in influencing ones actions, which is ultimately what resulted in him being thrown down a pit. Note that this is one of my interpretations of the movie, love for ones family can apply to all those you consider family, not just those that are family by blood.


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    Re: That's No Moon (Star Wars Thread)

    Post by Tolvo on Sun Mar 11, 2012 3:12 pm

    His arrogance was his undoing, definitely. And are you talking about Battle Meditation or a Battle Meld? Because yes indeed Palpatine could use it, actually that's something you can read about in the Thrawn Trilogy. big grin

    I always really liked the idea, but man when you say it out loud it does sound a bit cheesy doesn't it? "The Power of Love conquers all!" haha.
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    Re: That's No Moon (Star Wars Thread)

    Post by Forum Pirate on Sun Mar 11, 2012 3:22 pm

    I've never found anakin interesting, I can't understand his reasons for doing most anything. Luke is like that alot of the time too. Jolee Bindo is much easier to relate to and his duel with his wife is probably my favorite. Although its very sad.

    & yes lucas is is a gigantic sell out but i was referring specificly to authors. Most of the authors to work on the series are fairly accomplished and (imo) skilled.


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    Re: That's No Moon (Star Wars Thread)

    Post by Tolvo on Sun Mar 11, 2012 3:26 pm

    Jolee is definitely up there in my Jedi numbers, and I will say I don't care for Anakin, but I do really like Vader. I guess that is another possible flamy topic, so new vs old should probably be avoided.

    Jolee was always great for conversation, typically my other companions were a lot more useful in combat but often I'd take him along just for the company. Jolee and HK was my usual set up haha.
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    Re: That's No Moon (Star Wars Thread)

    Post by Forum Pirate on Sun Mar 11, 2012 3:40 pm

    Oh i ment both anakin & vader. i liked the context the new series provided. That context simply soured my opinion of some of the characters anakin/vader in particular. Vader was terrifying when i didn't know anything about him but knowing (not understanding because i don't) his motives made me like him less. Jolee has a book or comic series (dont remember which, been too long) about him where some of the stories he tells revan are fleshed out.

    miggt be unofficial though, again its been a while.


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    Re: That's No Moon (Star Wars Thread)

    Post by Tolvo on Sun Mar 11, 2012 3:45 pm

    Maybe that new Revan novel contained some more information on those stories? I haven't really heard of anything outside of Kotor containing information about Jolee, but I could always be wrong.

    Yeah, I actually kind of wish the new ones didn't involve a young vader at all, but now it's sadly a part of the story so it's there. Maybe there have been more Tales of the Jedi and Jolee could be in that? I wouldn't say it's impossible.
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    Re: That's No Moon (Star Wars Thread)

    Post by Emergence on Sun Mar 11, 2012 4:01 pm

    Any suggestions for where to start with the novels?


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    Re: That's No Moon (Star Wars Thread)

    Post by berkut on Sun Mar 11, 2012 4:10 pm

    Depends on what section of the Star Wars Lore your interested in. If you interested in the lead up to the movies for example, I would start with the novels that detail how Palpatine came to be the sith that he was (Darth Plagueis and stuff). Old republic era, start the games if possible, but I don't really know that stuff too well (or any of it really). If your interested in what happens to the movie cast and the after effects, go chronologically after the last movie (such as with the x-wing series, which follows Wedge Antilles).


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    Re: That's No Moon (Star Wars Thread)

    Post by Forum Pirate on Sun Mar 11, 2012 4:12 pm

    Checked. the story i read was an unofficial adaptation of the background information biowares writers made when creating him. so the details are non canon but the situations & characters arn't.

    at least the wiki didn't have anything outside of biowares background information. fellow fans are pretty good about keeping it accurate so i'd guess its correct.

    my bad.
    (bioware is pretty good about creating actual characters with histories & motives instead of the clones other many companies use, though so it probably isn't too far off.)

    Still, dueling your wife. Really don't think i'd have it in me.

    oh, wait, dug deeper & the specifics of his stories (the details on the stories he tells revan) were released in an article on the old kotor 2 website to provide background on the settings for the kotor series.

    thats what i read. i think....


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    Re: That's No Moon (Star Wars Thread)

    Post by Forum Pirate on Sun Mar 11, 2012 4:16 pm

    Emergence wrote:Any suggestions for where to start with the novels?
    If its the universe in general you like, wookiepedia should have a chronological booklist somewhere. Can always start at the beginning.


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    Re: That's No Moon (Star Wars Thread)

    Post by PlasticandRage on Sun Mar 11, 2012 5:11 pm

    Forum Pirate wrote:I've never found anakin interesting, I can't understand his reasons for doing most anything. Luke is like that alot of the time too. Jolee Bindo is much easier to relate to and his duel with his wife is probably my favorite. Although its very sad.

    You've never been in love have you? And by asking that I mean really in love, not infatuation or lust, but love. I feel like that's the basis for most of what Anakin does. Love has the potential to do things that just make no sense at all in regard to things you would normally do, things that go against your morals or your values, or just your better judgement in general. The Jedi code dictates that, while love can be had, its pure emotional side is discouraged because that's the side that makes you do all these wacky things. As a Jedi Anakin had always been a tad on the emotional side, jumping head first into things that were seemingly too big for him, probably due to a degree for his care for Obi Wan, but he was also evened out by Obi Wan's cool logical side and mastery of the force. Palpatine clearly saw this in Anakin and took advantage of it. He played into the biggest weakness he had and did it flawlessly. Playing his emotions against each other, and causing a rift between he and Obi Wan (who kept him leveled), until he couldn't see any way out but to act on a chain of thoughtless emotional decisions one after another after another. I guess I can't really speak for everyone in saying this but I know I've certainly done some really stupid **** that I can't help regretting because of love. That's what makes Vader so human, and IMO so likable even when he's the face the empire.

    Edit: I'd also like to clarify that by Anakin I do NOT mean Hayden Christenson


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    Re: That's No Moon (Star Wars Thread)

    Post by Tolvo on Sun Mar 11, 2012 5:13 pm

    Before the Movies, I'd say Darth Bane: Path of Destruction. After the movies, as mentioned X-Wing is a good place to start, the Thrawn Trilogy or Outbound Flight can be as well though Outbound is more so taking place during the moives behind the scenes. As well there are books for in between films, like the young Boba Fett books, or Labyrinth of Evil. For long before the movies you can go with Tales of the Jedi, which is somewhat more a graphic novel/comic style but contains some of the earliest information within the Star Wars timeline. The Darth Maul books aren't all that bad, I got some enjoyment out of the few I read.

    Sadly I probably couldn't go through with it either, in fact if it was my wife as depressing as it sounds I would probably crack under that pressure and grief and kill myself. Jolee is a strong man I say.
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    Re: That's No Moon (Star Wars Thread)

    Post by Emergence on Sun Mar 11, 2012 6:24 pm

    Thanks for the suggestions folks. I just started making more time for sci-fi novel reading (picked up a Magic book), and it can be daunting to jump into such a well established series, especially when you are trying to separate the wheat from the chaff.


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    Re: That's No Moon (Star Wars Thread)

    Post by Forum Pirate on Sun Mar 11, 2012 6:24 pm

    @ Rage My bottom line is that, for all his prowess, Vader is stupid. He fell because he was to busy feeling sorry for him self to accomplish anything. I am not a jedi and have little to lose by permitting self pity and i don't alow it, how could someone with so much to lose by doing so, go so far as to fall in to such deep despair that he attacks his loved ones? If you actually love someone, you do what is best for them. Breaking padme's heart, attacking her, and leaving her in a world where her only love is voluntarily serving an evil tyrant was clearly not in her best interest. If she inspired such weakness it would have been better to leave her and be miserable than allow such weakness to excist in someone with so much power.


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    Re: That's No Moon (Star Wars Thread)

    Post by Tolvo on Sun Mar 11, 2012 6:31 pm

    Yeah it can be like that, I remember I ran into the same issue when I tried to get into Star Trek, still haven't even managed to find one book anyone could ever agree upon.

    A bit of advice on what to avoid, avoid Legacy of the Force, that series is such a cluster of random characters changing 180% and being completely different people, sudden world changes and over all it just gets beyond loony if you ask me.
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    Re: That's No Moon (Star Wars Thread)

    Post by Emergence on Sun Mar 11, 2012 8:11 pm

    I see that Drew Karpyshyn wrote the Darth Bane books which is encouraging. I really liked what he did with the Mass Effect books, those three were serious page turners for me.


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    Re: That's No Moon (Star Wars Thread)

    Post by PlasticandRage on Sun Mar 11, 2012 8:21 pm

    See I don't think he saw it that way though. Maybe if Palpatine had never gotten involved. But love does make you vulnerable. Period. And that coupled with someone, not just anyone but literally a master of influence, was in his ear all the time saying "this is good, this is what you need to do, this is what's best for everyone." If feel like the fact that he had so much power and yet was still fallible and vulnerable to falling so far, makes it all that much more profound. He couldn't have made the decision to just leave her. Her lose is what he was so afraid of to begin with. As objective observers it's easy to say "ya I wouldn't have done that." Hence my question: You've never been in love have you? I don't disagree that his decision making was illogical, but in a pretty big way love is the binary opposite of logic. You also have to take into consideration the draw of the force. According to starwars lore, or at least my understanding of it, the dark side is like a drug, like an addiction, like it seeps into your psyche and you have to actively battle it. Which is why Jedi are trained from such a young age to separate themselves from their emotions so that they can combat the temptations of negative emotion, and thus combat the negative influences of the dark side of the force. And if you remember, in episode 1, the Jedi council, mainly Yoda and Mace Windu, saw that Anakin, even as a young boy, was incapable of this kind of detachment. He missed his mom, which may seem like an innocent and even natural thing, but for a Jedi it's vulnerability. While the Jedi masters saw it in him at that young age, so did Palpatine, who was already to a degree in his ear, feeding him that logic continually from childhood.

    IMO what makes him such a powerful character, isn't his fall, but his redemption. For all the mistakes he made, and all the negativity, and all the killing, essentially all the taint to his psyche, he still had the ability to see the right in things when it really counted. It took him a lifetime to learn the true nature of love and act on it, when he saw his son in danger and had his epiphany. But in the end he was able to make the right decisions for the first time in his life. For me this sums up what I love about the wars in a pretty big way. Isn't that what being human is? Making mistakes and trying to redeem ourselves? Learning and %$@!ing up and fixing our %#@^ ups. I mean you don't have to like him, but I feel like to not be able to acknowledge the message there is a bit of a shallow reading of it.
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    Re: That's No Moon (Star Wars Thread)

    Post by Tolvo on Sun Mar 11, 2012 9:50 pm

    He also wrote the story for the Revan book, as well as Kotor 1, not sure about Kotor 2. I really enjoy him, though I have yet to read Revan or the Mass Effect books. Timothy Zahn is another one, writer of the Thrawn Trilogy. Those books can really suck you in with the intricacy of some of the plans and the ideas presented by certain characters. Let's just say this much, if you like military tacticians you will love the Grand Admiral.

    I do wish Kyle Katarn would be in more books, I have an obvious nerd love for him haha.

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