request to remove the filter than changes "wikid0t" to "wikispaces"

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    request to remove the filter than changes "wikid0t" to "wikispaces"

    Post by retro on Sun Sep 15, 2013 10:14 am

    I don't know if this is a recent filter, or if I just failed to notice it in the past, but I'd prefer to see it go!

    I understand that it may be a means to try and promote the wikispaces wiki (makes sense, that's the forum we're on...), but it has potential to be problematic. If we wanted to discuss differences or discrepancies across wikis, and the person posting it doesn't notice the filter, that could really confuse that discussion.

    Just a recent example - I was trying to link to the wikid0t page on vagrants, because it has relevant information that the wikispaces page doesn't yet have. In this case, the filter is unhelpful because it attempts to link to a page without the needed info.

    The other problem is that it creates a bad link, because the beginning portion of the url isn't the same. Here's another example when I try linking to a wikid0t page I wrote:
    http://darksouls.wikispaces.com/invasion-spawn-locations

    And even if the first part of the url was correct, that's not a page on the wikispaces. Unless a list like that has been created for wikispaces yet, you have to go to wikid0t for that.

    Again, I know the goal was probably to promote wikispaces first and foremost, but people should still be allowed to compare and link to other wikis here. The way the filter works is that it almost tries to make it seem like the other wiki doesn't exist, which overall is worse for the community and improving wikis (either one) in general.


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    Re: request to remove the filter than changes "wikid0t" to "wikispaces"

    Post by Serious_Much on Sun Sep 15, 2013 10:24 am

    The fact is I actually think it's extremely disrespectful to the owners of this site and the wiki to link other wikis on this forum.

    If the relevant page on the wikispaces isn't good enough, surely a solution is to make it good enough?  That's what the community here is partially meant to do- improve the wiki. Maybe there are bits on the other wikis a bit better, but since this site is the sister site to the wikispaces- if you find parts lacking, I'd suggest perhaps improving the wikispaces so you don't have to use the other wikis any more instead of wanting to shun the wiki that is partnered with this site


    Last edited by Serious_Much on Sun Sep 15, 2013 10:26 am; edited 1 time in total


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    Re: request to remove the filter than changes "wikid0t" to "wikispaces"

    Post by twigsterxd on Sun Sep 15, 2013 10:25 am

    Can't delete since Fex posted so I just deleted my OP. I mis-understood what you meant retro but it's been explained to me. I have to agree with the boss and her minion Serious big grin


    Last edited by twigsterxd on Sun Sep 15, 2013 10:29 am; edited 1 time in total


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    Re: request to remove the filter than changes "wikid0t" to "wikispaces"

    Post by FexDS on Sun Sep 15, 2013 10:27 am

    This will not be changed.

    It would be the poster's responsibility to add the content to the source that FUNDS this forums that you use. If you have information that is missing on Wikispaces, add it. We are the forums of the wikispaces wiki, and it is very disrespectful to the efforts of our community to demand we act as a linking platform for anyone else.


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    Re: request to remove the filter than changes "wikid0t" to "wikispaces"

    Post by retro on Sun Sep 15, 2013 10:55 am

    I'll be blunt, I care a lot more about Dark Souls and correct info being out there than any single community.

    This is why I don't have a single home - I make a lot of edits to the wikid0t directly, but I also post about a lot of my findings on this forum with the hopes that someone can corroborate my findings and contribute them into the wikispaces (I'll elaborate on this in a moment...). I also post a lot on r/darksouls, and more recently the gamefaqs as well.

    However, this doesn't mean I intend to disrespect any community. If it's considered faux pas to link to another wiki here, then perhaps it should be made against the rules, or filtered to be blank. I think filtering it to change into wikispaces is a weird, sort of sneaky way to pretend that other information isn't out there that can be used to better knowledge across multiple communities.

    Why don't I just edit my findings directly to the wikispaces? Actually, you will find me doing just that, very soon.

    Hopefully people understand my perspective, though. When I first started making edits to wikd0t, it was an arbitrary decision simply because I was more familiar with it from the days of Demon's Souls. At no point was my intention to avoid contributions to wikispaces.

    However, here's where things become questionable. At what point would it be unacceptable to copy some pages or sections verbatim from wikid0t? I think most people would say that shouldn't be done, but what if there's a page I wrote completely on my own, or a section where I personally did all the testing? It wouldn't be copying wikid0t, it'd be copying myself, but I was still little worried it might look a bit shady.

    Which is why I've been trying to use a temporary solution - post about my research here so others who do contribute to wikispaces regularly can corroborate and contribute it themselves. I'm not trying to hoard my findings, I'm hoping to share them.

    This type of cross-community collaboration can be excellent. I had a great experience with Ublug here, where we worked together to solve the mechanics of obtaining soft humanity. In its initial state, wikispaces had preliminary info about it, wikid0t had none. I was able to get a bit further, learning a bit more and correcting some information about the mechanics--- only to get stuck again myself. This is where Ublug came up with an improved and correct point system, allowing me to get unstuck and learn even more, to the point where we solved the whole thing together. Now both wikis have a complete and accurate explanation of this, in their own words, which is exactly what I want to see.

    The point being, I'd hate to see this kind of encouragement of shutting out other communities. Working together would be for the benefit of everyone. Sure, if someone goes out of their way to excessively link to other wikis out of malicious intent, that is incredibly rude. In all cases? I'd argue not.

    All that being said, I'm still going to sign up and start contributing my findings directly. There's a decent amount of stuff I can correct and put in without obviously creating content similar to other pages already out there, so I'll start with that.

    edit: Request to join sent. cheers
    And this post was made while the other responses were written. I'll have to respect your decision. I made a request, request denied, I can accept that.


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    Re: request to remove the filter than changes "wikid0t" to "wikispaces"

    Post by FexDS on Sun Sep 15, 2013 12:07 pm

    I understand the issues with familiarity and everyone is free to contribute their work to whatever source they wish. The current filter is because if people find a blank page they should create it and there is no better way than making the links simply convert. 

    On the multiple communities issue: We have never told people not to frequent other forums but, given we had multiple members of other sites try and boycott this one on inception for the simple reason of daring to exist, we will not welcome discussion about other sites or promotion of said sites because it does nothing but create drama and brew resentment. People can chose where they want to hang out most and why and that's all good.

    There is a lot of backstory thats I see no need in dwelling into, however Wikispaces has a very direct indication that we do not and will not copy content without attribution. Content is of course the manner of delivery of the information not the data itself. I find it annoying to see other wikis have my text verbatim copied and pasted so that some unscrupulous person can profit from my work. Same for the work of other people who contributed to the early days of gathering information. Go have a look at IGN, Wikia, etc - it's pretty sad.

    So in short: copy yourself all you like, do not copy other people's work without proper attribution or respecting copyright notices on the pages you visit. Wikispaces is under all rights reserved, as we have also had some lunatic try to pack the wiki into an ebook to sell on Amazon.


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    Re: request to remove the filter than changes "wikid0t" to "wikispaces"

    Post by retro on Sun Sep 15, 2013 12:49 pm

    Ok wow, that last part is especially crazy. Perhaps I was a bit naive...

    I'll simply contribute more directly from now on, and respect your opinions on this matter. I'll continue to be a cross-community kind of person, but I'll keep things wikispaces-related here.

    No worries about what I add, I wouldn't copy someone else's work. I'd only contribute things I verify and write myself. Even for content I originated, I'll try my best to paraphrase or see if it's possible to re-word things more appropriate for a newer context.

    You can lock this thread if you'd like.


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    Re: request to remove the filter than changes "wikid0t" to "wikispaces"

    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? on Sun Sep 15, 2013 1:00 pm

    I really don't think this community, or any other out there in the Dark Souls world, should take the linking of "rivals" as a disrespect. I think it's better to view it as a exchange of information, which only exposes a larger swath of the community to the information.

    My $0.02

    EDIT: However, I will admit I was not aware of any boycotts. Such pettiness...

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    Re: request to remove the filter than changes "wikid0t" to "wikispaces"

    Post by retro on Sun Sep 15, 2013 1:20 pm

    WhatDoesThePendantDo? wrote:I really don't think this community, or any other out there in the Dark Souls world, should take the linking of "rivals" as a disrespect. I think it's better to view it as a exchange of information, which only exposes a larger swath of the community to the information.

    My $0.02

    EDIT: However, I will admit I was not aware of any boycotts. Such pettiness...
    Yes, that was definitely my intended approach. However I was also unaware of something like a boycott, nor do I intend to drudge up any negative past, so I understand now that I should let the mods/ admins stick to their decision while we all continue to praise the sun regardless.
    :Beer:


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    Re: request to remove the filter than changes "wikid0t" to "wikispaces"

    Post by Serious_Much on Sun Sep 15, 2013 1:28 pm

    Problem with what you said pendant is then if people start to neglect the wikispaces for the dot (not that they would as the dot is horrible compared to spaces imo), but if the filter was taken out and people used the dot mainly instead of spaces on here.. That's not an exchange of information, it just becomes neglecting and disrespectful to the wikispaces..


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    Re: request to remove the filter than changes "wikid0t" to "wikispaces"

    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? on Sun Sep 15, 2013 1:43 pm

    Why do you think people would neglect this wiki in favor of the other one, Serious? I think they both have their virtues and some pages there are better than some pages here and vice-versa.

    I know I prefer the detail and lore this wiki provides but if I need some quick information, like a new player asks what does the Red Sign Soapstone do? I do tend to favor the other wiki because it is more direct and might be easier for a new player to digest.

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    Re: request to remove the filter than changes "wikid0t" to "wikispaces"

    Post by Serious_Much on Sun Sep 15, 2013 1:53 pm

    Like I said, I don't think people would as the wiki is much better than the dot in my opinion, but it's a possibility no matter how unlikely.. I'd rather remove the possibility and filter the dot than take it out


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    Re: request to remove the filter than changes "wikid0t" to "wikispaces"

    Post by FexDS on Sun Sep 15, 2013 10:20 pm

    I'm happy we all understand each other. If anyone has further questions please contact me.
    Praise the sun indeed Praise the Sun


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