Shield Research #1 - Stability and Stamina

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    DPSMurphy
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    Shield Research #1 - Stability and Stamina

    Post by DPSMurphy on Sat Sep 14, 2013 6:11 pm

    Praise the Sun PRAISE THE SUMS!Praise the Sun



    Been doing some research into shields and made more than a few discoveries. I'm going to start with the data that most people will be able to put to more practical use... the STABILITY BONUS for two-handing a shield!

    First off, it does give a stability boost, which in turn reduces Stamina loss. It's something I didn't really consider until I tried it. I've found this very valuable in speed running area's of the game. The improvement is pretty staggering.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9AH_IIF1BU&feature=c4-overview&list=UUkmaMkDzRzP4_AmrZVfwfcQ

    How I worked it out, if you don't want to watch it:
    My method was pretty simple, although time consuming. It goes like this;

    2-handing a shield gives you a bonus to stability, but that % is unknown. But all the shields Stability values ARE KNOWN. If you can find a shield that when 2-handed behaves like a stronger 1-handed shield and the Stamina loss/drain is almost equal, we can do some basic maths to work out a approx value of increase!

    Watch this if you want to see the preliminary results and the how, It's been improved since, and I'll post some video evidence when it's ready.

    So what % improvement do you get? Note that this is only my preliminary result which I'm refining

    It's this much! Have a guess first!:
    It's 20-23% Stability improvement.

    It might not sound like much. But that's enough to turn 55 stability to approx 68 stability. That's the difference between the default Heater Shield and the Giant's Shield. Even a SL1 can use the Heater Shield, then two-hand it and can tank hits from the Gargoyles, Taurus, Capra and pretty much every baddie in the game.

    Remember! A increase of 23ish% stability does not equal a 23% reduction in Stamina Loss for blocking, that formula is not so simple and is not known yet... but that much Stability increase provides better Stamina reduction/drain that 23%.

    Annoyingly I'm pretty close to figuring it out perfectly and think you guys might help, there are lot's of secondary factors I've yet to discuss... lots of em. Making me have my doubts but I'm 100% it's between 20 and 25%. But anywho! Let's get a little discussion going before I post the more baffling aspects of this puzzle! There will even be charts and tables!
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    Re: Shield Research #1 - Stability and Stamina

    Post by Cronotis on Sat Sep 14, 2013 8:35 pm

    Nice find.  I'd assume that this applies to blocking with a weapon that's being two-handed as well?


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    Re: Shield Research #1 - Stability and Stamina

    Post by reim0027 on Sat Sep 14, 2013 10:18 pm

    +1 to you.  Thanks for testing this out.

    EDIT: just saw that I'm the first one to uprep you! cheers 


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    Re: Shield Research #1 - Stability and Stamina

    Post by skarekrow13 on Sat Sep 14, 2013 10:38 pm

    But not the last one to uprep him Reim.

    Very cool idea and that is actually a pretty big boost.

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    Re: Shield Research #1 - Stability and Stamina

    Post by Pilgrim34 on Sun Sep 15, 2013 6:13 am

    Very interesting to know, thanks for taking the time to do this research!


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    Re: Shield Research #1 - Stability and Stamina

    Post by retro on Sun Sep 15, 2013 1:37 pm

    That's excellent. Very nicely done!

    Please post any and all updates regarding your testing. Also any questions or suggestions for help you may have.


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    Re: Shield Research #1 - Stability and Stamina

    Post by DPSMurphy on Sun Sep 15, 2013 1:52 pm

    Thanks for all the support all! I'll have a conclusive answer to the weapon Stability boost within a few hours (short answer, yes it does. Long answer, I have a feeling that unblocked damage changes the outcome slightly, eg-70% damage reduction from UltraSwords is "unblocked", so stamina loss is less for these. Done some testing and it seems not to effect it at all. But gotta be 100% sure).

    But I'll leave an interesting thought I found on the side.

    I think... the enemies might scale to your level slightly. Odd, I noticed this when I was trying to eliminate the idea that STR contributes to the stability bonus. So I found some Balder knights, one on my Lv10ish guy ad my lv50ish guy and the Stamina Loss /Drain from blocking was actually higher on the SL50.

    I was using the default heater shield on both of them, but my mostly unamoured Lv10 was receiving less Stamina Loss than the amoured SL50. This pretty much eliminates STR since the SL50 had tonnes of it. Who knows? Maybe they don't level with you and at lower levels you might even have a "base stability" which is less noticeable as you level.

    And by level with you I only mean damage, much like how bosses HP is fixed but Boss damage is variable to HP(/SL?)

    Just some thoughts. Gonna have a short info vid proving some of this further.
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    Re: Shield Research #1 - Stability and Stamina

    Post by Hue on Sun Sep 15, 2013 2:26 pm

    108 stability for 2 handed crystal tower shield +5...


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    Re: Shield Research #1 - Stability and Stamina

    Post by DPSMurphy on Tue Sep 17, 2013 12:42 am

    retro wrote:That's excellent. Very nicely done!

    Please post any and all updates regarding your testing. Also any questions or suggestions for help you may have.
    Well don't mind if I do! Hurrah  Also thanks for the post at Reddit, it's appreciated!

    Anywho, I'll quote what I said other there. Since I hit a bit of a snag and you guys could help. I feel like I'm missing something painfully obvious. Lend me your brainpower!


    MurphyDPS wrote:"
    Snip!

    Been working on a followup and had a happy surprise to see my video here! I thought I had it figured earlier but after rendering the video in full screen I could see a very very small stamina discrepancy.. sigh.. more research that means.

    But I can confirm some things atm, I'm sure the DS community can help too.

    First off, your character's STR or stats do not contribute at all. Which makes things easier. I had a SL13 and a SL53 both take hits with a default heater shield on, and the stamina loss exactly the same, even in different gear.

    Now this next bit is why I have to redo some things. There is a small chance that when you block with shields/weapons without 100% damage mitigation you will lose less stamina compared to other items with 100% damage reduction with equal stability.

    I'm guessing this is because that unblocked portion is not considered blocked, so less stamina is used to block the whole hit. Maybe.


    And a riddle for you all! Can anyone think of 2 shields/weapons with the SAME stability but DIFFERENT damage reduction %'s? eg- Ultra swords tend to reduce 75% of damage, hammers do 45% Cause this would confirm it!
    And I thought I almost had it too! But I don't like that tiny difference between the Zwei and EastWest shield. The stamina loss should really be the same!


    Last edited by DPSMurphy on Tue Sep 17, 2013 4:30 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Re: Shield Research #1 - Stability and Stamina

    Post by Back Lot Basher on Tue Sep 17, 2013 4:25 pm

    That's great info.  I could see a ton of practical uses for tanking as a mage with catalyst in the offhand.

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