I need tactical help (professionals needed)

    Share

    xxrazorfistxx

    Posts : 5
    Reputation : 0
    Join date : 2013-09-11

    I need tactical help (professionals needed)

    Post by xxrazorfistxx on Wed Sep 11, 2013 4:01 pm

    I've been playing the Souls series for a long time now, since the release of Demon's Souls and I can safely say I don't have any idea how to battle against this tactic. So here's what we're up against:

    - Dark Bead
    - Pursuers (activated before contact)
    - Tranquil Walk of Peace (activated before contact) 
    - High poise

    How do I exactly battle against this tactic with a melee-only based build using a Claymore? The beads deal about 1200+ at close range, kicking isn't viable seeing as the enemy would never come within range and if so, I cannot seem to stagger the opponent with the following Claymore light or heavy. What I'm getting at is; if you do not have 'any' magic at all, what is your options? If none, what options do I have even with magic? Running away from Tranquil Walk of Peace for 10+ seconds is very difficult in certain situations and if they have a lighter build, they will sprint faster than you. So my point is, if there are no non-based anti-tactics, this will mean that magic will always be the dominant force. Please explain logically, otherwise I've lost hope in Dark Souls PvP.

    masbaconstrips
    Addicted
    Addicted

    Posts : 102
    Reputation : 6
    Join date : 2013-03-16

    Re: I need tactical help (professionals needed)

    Post by masbaconstrips on Wed Sep 11, 2013 4:18 pm

    The only tactic is to not let it happen, be active in staying close to the enemy so they cant cast any of the spells.  I haven't ran into this scheme in a long time but if you get caught by surprise the best option is to use the Crest Shield/Moonlight Shield with high magic defense.  You should be able to survive and TWoP will wear off soon after, then it's roll bs city!  So to recap -

    stay close prefight, Crest Shield, Roll BS

    xxrazorfistxx

    Posts : 5
    Reputation : 0
    Join date : 2013-09-11

    Re: I need tactical help (professionals needed)

    Post by xxrazorfistxx on Wed Sep 11, 2013 4:33 pm

    masbaconstrips wrote:The only tactic is to not let it happen, be active in staying close to the enemy so they cant cast any of the spells.  I haven't ran into this scheme in a long time but if you get caught by surprise the best option is to use the Crest Shield/Moonlight Shield with high magic defense.  You should be able to survive and TWoP will wear off soon after, then it's roll bs city!  So to recap -

    stay close prefight, Crest Shield, Roll BS
    Well the reason I added "before contact" was because you would have no way of stopping the opponent from casting both attacks until they wear off. Although both shields have high magic defence, the chip damage will only be capped by around 200-400 depending on the upgrade and stat levels. Taking into account how fast the user can cast Dark Bead once it hits, I don't think this will be a viable option; especially in a place such as Sen's Fortress. You will be taking around 20-30% chip damage per hit. If you can manage to survive the Pursuers and Tranquil Walk of Peace with the chip you may stand a chance, but I still feel the enemy would have way more of an advantage with less effort required. >.<
    avatar
    shadowzninjaz
    Insomniac
    Insomniac

    Posts : 1068
    Reputation : 10
    Join date : 2013-01-12
    Age : 17
    Location : Korea

    Re: I need tactical help (professionals needed)

    Post by shadowzninjaz on Wed Sep 11, 2013 5:00 pm

    im curious what system to u play on, Me being a ps3 player when i invade i never see this happen.

    It's hard to deal with persuers when they cast it before anyone invades cause once u invade them the persuers are invisble on your screen and u cant hear them coming but that is rare to see.
    I usually have fire tempest on my attun slot so i can use it against twop users, if u dont have any attun slots the best way is to try parry the incoming atks, even if they cast dark bead u can still parry it and take partial damage. there twop should run out after u use fire tempest or after maybe like two parrys


    _________________
    Hiya!!!
    Psn: shadowz_ninjaz
    Skype: shadowz.ninjaz
    avatar
    Aigaios
    Addicted
    Addicted

    Posts : 216
    Reputation : 10
    Join date : 2013-07-07
    Location : Drinking tea with Snuggly

    Re: I need tactical help (professionals needed)

    Post by Aigaios on Wed Sep 11, 2013 5:08 pm

    Dark Bead:
    This really depends on the lag and on how good your opponent is with them, most Dark Bead spammers can be avoided easily. If you see a your opponent use it just roll and if you feel out the patent try to punish his spamming with a roll BS.
    Pursuers:
    I would not use the pendant unless you have distance between yourself an the enemy. If there are things like trees around you use them to get rid of the Pursuers. The best thing in my opinion is to wait so that they are about to hit you then roll into them it should result in no damage if done right. This spell is really not that powerful unless there is some really bad lag.
    Tranquil Walk of Peace:
    If you cant run away from it which is really rare then the best thing do do is either parry or if your opponent is going for a BS, unlock from them then attack in their direction it will either hit them and stunlock or result in no BS damage depending on your weapon.
    High poise:
    Its not really a good thing to aim for a stunlock in the first place but if someone has high poise it just means you need to hit them multiple times. With a claymore going unlocked run attacks is pretty effective since its powerful and fast.


    _________________
    PSN: Aigaionn
    "Niente è vero, tutto è concesso."

    xxrazorfistxx

    Posts : 5
    Reputation : 0
    Join date : 2013-09-11

    Re: I need tactical help (professionals needed)

    Post by xxrazorfistxx on Wed Sep 11, 2013 5:24 pm

    Aigaios wrote:Dark Bead:
    This really depends on the lag and on how good your opponent is with them, most Dark Bead spammers can be avoided easily. If you see a your opponent use it just roll and if you feel out the patent try to punish his spamming with a roll BS.
    Pursuers:
    I would not use the pendant unless you have distance between yourself an the enemy. If there are things like trees around you use them to get rid of the Pursuers. The best thing in my opinion is to wait so that they are about to hit you then roll into them it should result in no damage if done right. This spell is really not that powerful unless there is some really bad lag.
    Tranquil Walk of Peace:
    If you cant run away from it which is really rare then the best thing do do is either parry or if your opponent is going for a BS, unlock from them then attack in their direction it will either hit them and stunlock or result in no BS damage depending on your weapon.
    High poise:
    Its not really a good thing to aim for a stunlock in the first place but if someone has high poise it just means you need to hit them multiple times. With a claymore going unlocked run attacks is pretty effective since its powerful and fast.
    Thanks, definitely the most informative post yet. I see there's ways out of it now, but what sucks is how much of an 'advantage' these guys have over the regular melee build. I hope they could balance it out properly with Dark Souls 2. Thanks again!
    avatar
    Acarnatia
    Caffeinated
    Caffeinated

    Posts : 979
    Reputation : 59
    Join date : 2012-10-02
    Age : 25
    Location : Between the Dark and Light

    Re: I need tactical help (professionals needed)

    Post by Acarnatia on Wed Sep 11, 2013 7:38 pm

    Do you mean the times when a players is using all of those at once? For example, the Tin crystallization catalyst, Crown of Dusk, havel's armor, possibly gloves and presumably the Bellowing Dragon Crest Ring and Wolf's Ring? Those encounters are so stacked in terms of odds, I honestly just don't count them. I think there really isn't any effective tactic for fighting that beyond staying away, which is frequently impossible.


    _________________
    I am him who seeks himself;
    Fallen Heaven's malice was I born to bear.
    A phantom-ghost treading upon the mists of Heaven,
    Malevolence or Heaven am I?
    I am the absolute devoted,
    The wraith.

    PSN: Enaid_Waleis (main), Try-chu
    avatar
    Seignar
    Insomniac
    Insomniac

    Posts : 1206
    Reputation : 106
    Join date : 2012-08-07

    Re: I need tactical help (professionals needed)

    Post by Seignar on Wed Sep 11, 2013 9:10 pm

    TL;WNR

    Use Havel's Greatshield and/or Strong Magic Shield (as back-up, or you can slap it on top of Havel's). There is no greater force in the game that can penetrate those, except Shotel. Anyways:

    1) Melee: Get Havel's Greatshield and a spear and cautiously poke to death.
    2) Magic: Strong Magic Shield and survive the onslaught (Read as: Wait it out. Cause you don't survive, you only live)
    3) Mixed: Strong Magic Shield, get a spear and poke them vigorously to death!

    Option 3 is recommended as it is the best response and the minimal requirement for this tactic is:

    a) 11 STR (Which mostly everyone has)
    b) 10 DEX
    c) 10 ATT (Which costs you nearly nothing)
    d) 15 INT (Which has other benefits such as supportive magic (and buffs) that can be used even by dedicated Melee builds)

    (This amounts to as much as 10 level up points [for Bandit] and 6 points for Warrior [the optimal choice for melee builds]. In addition, this investment allows the use of the Great Magic Weapon buff, for 3 consecutive AR bonuses of 198 [that's a free buff that is 32% stronger than Gold Pine Resin])

    If you want the long, boring and almost disorganized version, read below:
    ____________________________________

    There is little in the ways of dealing with this without magic, but I will try to help:

    I will assume we are dealing with an opponent who is using all of these simultaneously and we will assume the worst case scenario that is you being unable to escape it (because you're backed against a wall or got caught in it). First, we will go through all Melee answers:

    1) Backstab. There is a 1 second delay before you can no longer move, so if worse comes to worst, proceed to unlock and try to do a precise backstab in less than a second (by running towards them [works better if you managed to provoke them to run towards you]). It is dangerous and difficult and it is a last resort.

    2) Shielding. The following shields are good for blocking out all sorts of Magic Damage: Havel's Greatshield, Stone Greatshield and Cleansing Greatshield (DLC only). The priority goes to Havel's Shield which has the 2nd highest stability, highest magic reduction and offers a variety of protection against other damage types (like pyromancy).

    The following shields are good for taking 1 barrage of magic. These shields are not as effective as the greatshields listed, but they are considerably lighter and a bit more practical for serious non-turtling fighting: Mag. Caduceus Rd. Shield +10 (Magic Caduceus Round Shield +10), Crystal Ring Shield and Crest Shield. Priority goes to the Crest Shield for having higher all-round statistics save for weight and lightning reduction.

    3) Dragon Roar. The Dragon Roar from the Dragon Torso Stone grants definite stagger and redirects magic, but it requires precise timing to perform.

    4) Silver Pendant (DLC only). Specifically made to counter Dark Magic, it works better than the Dragon Roar.

    5) Stone Greatsword. It performs a TWoP effect on its 2H strong attack. Fight fire with fire. In order to make up for initial distance, you can perform a jump attack and hope you land it.

    6) Play keep away (Melee). Greatbows and the special attacks of most weapons are good keep away because they stagger a lot and hit a good distance away. Greatbows in particular are good if you're cornered, as you can maintain them at a farther distance.


    Now, we covered all of the melee strategies, we can go into the magic category:

    1) Strong Magic Shield, this is your first and best answer! Strong Magic Shield will take any shield, increase all of its damage reductions to 100% and give to 40 stability. This means it will make you an impenetrable guard if your shield has at least 60 stability for 15 seconds (vs TWoP's 10 seconds) or 23 if you have Lingering Dragoncrest Ring. Also, the best part is that this move only has a requirement of 15 INT (meaning you don't have to have a magic build to use it; it's free!)

    2) Great Magic Barrier. Your second best option is to use this. Listen closely, it magic incoming AR by 90%, meaning you reduced the damage by 90% before it even accounted your defenses or your shield's reduction values (this means that with the right set-up, you can reduce the damage by over 99%!). Too good to be true? Yeah, it is. The drawback is that it takes a long time to cast, so if you get jumped, you're dead! Otherwise, you may proceed to LEEEEEEEERRRRROOOOOOOYYYYYYYY JEEEEENKIIIIIIIIIIIIIINSSSSS your way too them...

    3) Vow of Silence. The absolute counter next to Strong Magic Shield. It prevents casting for an extended period (so it protects against further moves after TWoP ends) which will save you from all but the Pursuers. Again, sadly, its weakspot is its cast time.

    4) Hidden Body. This is a partial counter, but nevertheless, just as easy to use as Strong Magic Shield. When using Hidden Body, Pursuers will not go off, which saves you that attack, but you still must deal with all other moves. Considering its casting time, you will have to resort to melee counters aftwerwards.

    5) Play keep away (Magic). Force, Wrath of the Gods, Fire Tempest and Gravelord Sword dances are all good keep away moves due to their range and reflection ability.

    6) WE WILL DIE TOGETHER! If all else fails, cast Karmic Justice and don't give them the pleasure of victory. There are many hits in those spells that will cause the move to set off and deal giant damage.

    avatar
    Acarnatia
    Caffeinated
    Caffeinated

    Posts : 979
    Reputation : 59
    Join date : 2012-10-02
    Age : 25
    Location : Between the Dark and Light

    Re: I need tactical help (professionals needed)

    Post by Acarnatia on Wed Sep 11, 2013 9:59 pm

    One of the biggest problems with people who use these builds is that, at least in the Township, they start spamming magic the moment the player invades, meaning they have NO opportunity to buff.

    Also, how the heck can someone use Havel's greatshield at that str? It requires 50.


    Last edited by Acarnatia on Wed Sep 11, 2013 10:06 pm; edited 1 time in total


    _________________
    I am him who seeks himself;
    Fallen Heaven's malice was I born to bear.
    A phantom-ghost treading upon the mists of Heaven,
    Malevolence or Heaven am I?
    I am the absolute devoted,
    The wraith.

    PSN: Enaid_Waleis (main), Try-chu
    avatar
    reim0027
    Moderator
    Moderator

    Posts : 6715
    Reputation : 381
    Join date : 2012-01-28

    Re: I need tactical help (professionals needed)

    Post by reim0027 on Wed Sep 11, 2013 10:02 pm

    Run away like your arse is on fire.


    _________________


    PSN usernames: reim0027_2,   reim0027_3,  and reim0027_5.  Skype ID: reim0027  
    Tour of Lordran Soul Levels  //  Official Wiki Fight Club // Forest Invasion Soul Levels // Low Level Invasion Rules
    avatar
    Acarnatia
    Caffeinated
    Caffeinated

    Posts : 979
    Reputation : 59
    Join date : 2012-10-02
    Age : 25
    Location : Between the Dark and Light

    Re: I need tactical help (professionals needed)

    Post by Acarnatia on Wed Sep 11, 2013 10:07 pm

    No, Reim, that's Black Flame spammers.


    _________________
    I am him who seeks himself;
    Fallen Heaven's malice was I born to bear.
    A phantom-ghost treading upon the mists of Heaven,
    Malevolence or Heaven am I?
    I am the absolute devoted,
    The wraith.

    PSN: Enaid_Waleis (main), Try-chu
    avatar
    Seignar
    Insomniac
    Insomniac

    Posts : 1206
    Reputation : 106
    Join date : 2012-08-07

    Re: I need tactical help (professionals needed)

    Post by Seignar on Wed Sep 11, 2013 10:23 pm

    Acarnatia wrote:One of the biggest problems with people who use these builds is that, at least in the Township, they start spamming magic the moment the player invades, meaning they have NO opportunity to buff.

    Also, how the heck can someone use Havel's greatshield at that str? It requires 50.
    Which is why I recommend you use Strong Magic Shield because it is quick and beyond reliable. You invade already prepared to cast it and you put your shield up ASAP as soon as you do. (It is also recommended to walk backwards as you do so you get a bit more distance)

    Also, option 3 did not specify Havel's, it simply said use Strong Magic Shield. I gave 11 STR because it is the minimal requirement to wield a spear (although you should go the extra meter and put it to 12 so you can apply the Demon's Spear instead). You can use the Heater Shield which will have the same parameters.

    However, if you feel the need to be really safe, you can invest in those 50 STR. The problem with Havel's is that it isn't reliable, you can take maybe 3-7 volleys before your guard breaks, depending on your Stamina Regeneration, Stamina and skillfullness in applying Block Switching.

    Also, you should be running as if you're the victim in the chase sequence of a horror film.


    xxrazorfistxx

    Posts : 5
    Reputation : 0
    Join date : 2013-09-11

    Re: I need tactical help (professionals needed)

    Post by xxrazorfistxx on Thu Sep 12, 2013 1:50 am

    Seignar wrote:
    Acarnatia wrote:One of the biggest problems with people who use these builds is that, at least in the Township, they start spamming magic the moment the player invades, meaning they have NO opportunity to buff.

    Also, how the heck can someone use Havel's greatshield at that str? It requires 50.
    Which is why I recommend you use Strong Magic Shield because it is quick and beyond reliable. You invade already prepared to cast it and you put your shield up ASAP as soon as you do. (It is also recommended to walk backwards as you do so you get a bit more distance)

    Also, option 3 did not specify Havel's, it simply said use Strong Magic Shield. I gave 11 STR because it is the minimal requirement to wield a spear (although you should go the extra meter and put it to 12 so you can apply the Demon's Spear instead). You can use the Heater Shield which will have the same parameters.

    However, if you feel the need to be really safe, you can invest in those 50 STR. The problem with Havel's is that it isn't reliable, you can take maybe 3-7 volleys before your guard breaks, depending on your Stamina Regeneration, Stamina and skillfullness in applying Block Switching.

    Also, you should be running as if you're the victim in the chase sequence of a horror film.
    Thanks, I appreciate the time you put into replying but I must say; although I can definitely see ways of approaching this kind of build now, just to counter it I literally have to create a brand new melee build and focus directly on this situation just to be viable against it which sucks considering other builds are usually 40/60% capable in comparison to each other. This build (to my knowledge) takes near to no skill and will dominate all other builds with ease, forcing them to block, retreat and play 'their' game rather than yours. I think they really need to address magic in Dark Souls 2, especially against PvE seeing as it is piss easy to win and was in Demon's Souls as well. Thanks again though, I can see other magic based classes stand a lot more of a chance, I just wish a melee-only build is just as capable.
    avatar
    Rifter7
    Hollowed
    Hollowed

    Posts : 1523
    Reputation : 69
    Join date : 2012-05-05
    Location : Tama

    Re: I need tactical help (professionals needed)

    Post by Rifter7 on Fri Sep 13, 2013 11:47 pm

    silver pendant
    strong shields
    kicks and parry for their melee attacks
    you can try partial parrying their spells if you're crazy
    you could cast that anti magic spell as they cast twop
    great magic barrier
    putting your modem on standby and laughing at their twitching character?


    _________________
    avatar
    Leet
    Insomniac
    Insomniac

    Posts : 1375
    Reputation : 70
    Join date : 2013-06-10
    Age : 25

    Re: I need tactical help (professionals needed)

    Post by Leet on Sat Sep 14, 2013 1:42 am

    Rifter7 wrote:putting your modem on standby and laughing at their twitching character?

    avatar
    reim0027
    Moderator
    Moderator

    Posts : 6715
    Reputation : 381
    Join date : 2012-01-28

    Re: I need tactical help (professionals needed)

    Post by reim0027 on Sat Sep 14, 2013 10:15 pm

    Why the downvote? I don't get it.


    _________________


    PSN usernames: reim0027_2,   reim0027_3,  and reim0027_5.  Skype ID: reim0027  
    Tour of Lordran Soul Levels  //  Official Wiki Fight Club // Forest Invasion Soul Levels // Low Level Invasion Rules
    avatar
    Leet
    Insomniac
    Insomniac

    Posts : 1375
    Reputation : 70
    Join date : 2013-06-10
    Age : 25

    Re: I need tactical help (professionals needed)

    Post by Leet on Sat Sep 14, 2013 10:43 pm

    reim0027 wrote:Why the downvote?  I don't get it.
    Someone has been downvoting all my posts lately. Look in the Exiled thread. It's not an Exiled doing it but that's where it started.

    avatar
    LordTransvalence
    Casual
    Casual

    Posts : 49
    Reputation : 2
    Join date : 2013-03-02
    Age : 22
    Location : Behind..You..

    Re: I need tactical help (professionals needed)

    Post by LordTransvalence on Sun Sep 15, 2013 1:36 am

    The only 100% proven tactic against this , Step 1: Take your finger. Step 2: Turn of your 360/PS3.


    _________________
    PSN:LordTransvalence
    avatar
    Latitoast
    Chosen Undead
    Chosen Undead

    Posts : 4520
    Reputation : 40
    Join date : 2013-04-03
    Age : 20
    Location : Rolling in circles while reading manga

    Re: I need tactical help (professionals needed)

    Post by Latitoast on Sun Sep 15, 2013 4:02 am

    The only real counter to this is spotting the signs of it before he gets close, and running until he's out of castings if all you have is a Claymore.


    _________________
    Gamertag:Leon Kennedy85   LoL Summoner ID, Skype Username, Steam ID:Latitoast
    Current Covenants:Messengers of Velka, The Exiled of Ariamis, The Darkstalkers


    xxrazorfistxx

    Posts : 5
    Reputation : 0
    Join date : 2013-09-11

    Re: I need tactical help (professionals needed)

    Post by xxrazorfistxx on Mon Sep 16, 2013 1:19 pm

    I think we could all agree, this build is very OP and needs to be patched and removed completely. I think the main issue is the Tranquil Walk of Peace, but I'm pretty sure this won't make a reappearance in the next Souls game.

    Sponsored content

    Re: I need tactical help (professionals needed)

    Post by Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Mon Oct 23, 2017 5:59 pm