Dark Souls II Covenants

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    DSGiant

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    Dark Souls II Covenants

    Post by DSGiant on Tue Sep 10, 2013 3:31 pm


    I liked the concept of covenants in Dark Souls, however I don’t feel that enough was done for covenants to actually be considered significant. Their real focus was to serve as a means for players to have more frequent online interactions, which is fine, but I feel they could’ve done a better job of implementing covenants into Dark Souls. A person could play through the game and not even know about covenants and they wouldn’t miss out on much. Perhaps this was due to time constraints or any variety of reasons, but whatever the reason(s), but I feel a few things could have been done to enhance the covenant experience. I think the main thing was that they didn’t actually feel how I think a covenant should feel. There was no reason to be loyal to the covenant after you earned the big reward that you were looking for. I want a reason to stay in a covenant and to feel loyal to that covenant, perhaps a ranking system of sorts. I know that in the covenants they had a One, Two, and Three ranks, but being at those ranks didn’t really mean anything. No one could tell what rank of a covenant you were at and the only indicators to what covenant you were a part of was the color of your phantom. For ranking they could implement something along the lines of Novice and continue up the ladder to higher ranks in which they could give you unique covenant armors, weapons, usable items, spells, and miracles. That would feel more worthwhile for the time that I invest into performing actions for my covenant.
    An aspect that I would like to see implemented is a punishment system for betraying your covenant. A three-strike system of sorts would be sufficient I think. For instance, if you were to do an action that was frowned upon within your covenant, you wouldn’t be immediately expelled, but rather given a warning to not do it again. The second time you do something against the covenant’s rules, they punish you by taking away a rank. The third time you betray your covenant they banish you from interacting with them again. You cannot join the covenant again and certain NPCs may be suspicious of you, unfriendly, or even hostile. Other covenants would also be more suspicious of the player and make it harder to join and earn ranks and rewards within the covenant. If a player should be expelled from that covenant then it will be increasingly difficult to join other covenants. The last time that the player is kicked out of the covenant, they would no longer be able to join any of the available covenants and perhaps be labeled an exile. As an exile the frequency of being invaded would be increased as covenants do not like the player, so the player would be given more PvP opportunities, but be limited to leaving summon signs for other exiles or players not currently in a covenant.
    Another thing that I would like to see is for covenants to have more interactions with other covenants. Allied covenants would have more opportunities for cooperating with friendly covenants. Likewise there would be rivalry among some covenants that would allow for increased invasions among players of rival covenants for increased PvP. I would also like to see something that may give people a better idea of what covenant someone was in, perhaps aesthetic armor that players could wear to show that they identify with a covenant rather than just having a different color for your phantom. Since covenants would be more of the player experience they could also serve as the player hub. I had no problems with Firelink Shrine or the Nexus, but it would allow players to further identify with their covenant and want to participate in their covenant for something other than some reward; also a change of scenery would be nice.
    Overall I thought that covenants were a great idea and liked having them, but I felt that something more could have been done to make them more worthwhile. Any input is welcome, so please comment.


    Last edited by DSGiant on Tue Sep 10, 2013 4:51 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    WhatDoesThePendantDo?
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    Re: Dark Souls II Covenants

    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? on Tue Sep 10, 2013 3:42 pm

    First off: Very difficult to read.

    Secondly, I don't think covenants need to be made more "apparent" to players, as you say. They are apparent enough. Maybe I'm in the minority but I think covenants were implemented pretty well in Dark Souls, of course some of the covenants definitely left much to be desired, I'm looking at you WoW, Path of the Dragon, and PG. Some of your suggestions such as certain covenants allowing secret areas already were, in a sense, in Dark Souls - the Chaos Servant shortcut to Izalith comes to mind.

    One thing you say that I agree with and would like to see implemented, is more of a punishment for betraying a covenant. Your idea, as I understand it, is that players would be allowed to betray covenants but would when they go to join another covenant their leveling up in that covenant is made more stringent; that, to me, makes a lot of sense as you would need to prove yourself as a loyal follower and for a known betrayer to prove as such it makes sense that he/she would need to go further than most initiates to prove their loyalty.

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    Re: Dark Souls II Covenants

    Post by DSGiant on Tue Sep 10, 2013 3:51 pm

    Thank you for the input and I'm sorry that it's difficult to read. I have some problems being concise. silly
    I will work on that and edit it to be more clear.
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    Re: Dark Souls II Covenants

    Post by Sneezer on Tue Sep 10, 2013 6:10 pm

    They could have done a lot more with covenants, which I hope they do in Dark Souls 2, but many of them should stay relative secrets for players to discover on their own, adding a sense of depth, mystery, and discovery to the game.


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    Re: Dark Souls II Covenants

    Post by Green__Eagle on Tue Sep 10, 2013 6:36 pm

    A player sponsorship token (think Sunlight Medal) could be given to another player as an invitation to their covenant. The person who received the token could then submit it to the Covenant NPC Representative asking for admission. That would be cool. Perhaps the actions of the recipient player would reflect back on their sponsor.

    Kind of complicated, but it would give players greater immersion into their covenants.

    Hmmm.... if this were to work, the Sponsor would have to see some type of report on the Recipient. Such as: Successful missions finished, invaders defeated, or victims slaughtered. Perhaps the relevant stat would only be available based on which covenant the Sponsor belongs to.


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    Re: Dark Souls II Covenants

    Post by alchemydesign on Wed Sep 11, 2013 1:23 am

    I believe it was stated that there weren't going to be any covenants in DkS II? I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure Tanimura-san said that in an interview, maybe at E3?
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    Re: Dark Souls II Covenants

    Post by Odinbear on Wed Sep 11, 2013 9:14 am

    What?..   No gangs?


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    Re: Dark Souls II Covenants

    Post by Serious_Much on Wed Sep 11, 2013 11:40 am

    This section is not in the correct section. As it is about Dark Souls 2 it should go in the appropriate section.

    Thread moved.


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    Re: Dark Souls II Covenants

    Post by DSGiant on Wed Sep 11, 2013 2:59 pm

    Is it really not in the right section? It said covenants...

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    Re: Dark Souls II Covenants

    Post by Thxodore on Thu Sep 19, 2013 12:46 pm

    Dat wall of text tho

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    Re: Dark Souls II Covenants

    Post by Thxodore on Thu Sep 19, 2013 12:48 pm

    But yes, more penalties for betraying a covenant would be awesome. They should have a better indicator to other players of what level in a covenant you are, also.
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    Re: Dark Souls II Covenants

    Post by phastings on Thu Sep 19, 2013 2:38 pm

    DSGiant wrote:Thank you for the input and I'm sorry that it's difficult to read. I have some problems being concise. silly
    I will work on that and edit it to be more clear.
    I think they are saying its difficult to read due to the layout, not your composition. Just leave a space every few sentences to separate each point. It makes it easier for others to read and reply to your points when segmented.

    but anyways, I agree 100%. A lot was lost on covenants in DkS1. Not much incentive to stay in one other than to get a few trinkets then abandon to move on to the next. Plus no real consequence for betrayal, nor any felt outcome on the story or world. 

    If they can manage to take the actions taken by the player, maybe killing an NPC results in the denial of one covenant, but later opens the doors to another, and perhaps then joining that latter cov effects the outcome of the story in some way, that would be epic. I love how they did things in the witcher; you could replay that game and get a completely different experience. since dark souls is all about NG+, then why not?

    I know some ppl are against this, but on the subject of consequence and leaving a covenant or betraying one, there should be more sinister repercussions like a secret location/weapon is rendered inaccessible til next playthru. or maybe blessings in disguise become apparent later on.

    - I realize forest hunters did punish, and you could of course kill npc's in others, thus eliminating the option to join them, but it was rather skin deep.

    I want to discover secret underlying dimensions between covenants, and am praying that they are focusing on depth in this department.


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