BOSS BATTLE TOURNEY. Currently Round 25 Kalameet vs Manus.

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    Who will win?

    [ 10 ]
    67% [67%] 
    [ 5 ]
    33% [33%] 

    Total Votes: 15
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    Re: BOSS BATTLE TOURNEY. Currently Round 25 Kalameet vs Manus.

    Post by GrinTwist on Thu Sep 12, 2013 12:53 am

    I think the Stray demon might have a chance if it sticks with magic and it's staff attacks. Chances are Gwyndolin will be able to warp a few times but at some point get stunlocked and that could be the end of him.


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    Re: BOSS BATTLE TOURNEY. Currently Round 25 Kalameet vs Manus.

    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? on Thu Sep 12, 2013 1:09 am

    Doesn't matter. Gwyndolin has the power to create illusions so he could do a Pinwheel fight tactic but to much greater effect than Pinwheel himself, and his teleporting will prove difficult for fatty.

    Not to mention that if things really get hairy he's got an entire covenant (with its legions of followers) at his beck and call.

    +1 to Gwyndolin.

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    Re: BOSS BATTLE TOURNEY. Currently Round 25 Kalameet vs Manus.

    Post by Seignar on Thu Sep 12, 2013 1:35 am

    I would say Gwyndolin wins. The entirety of this post will be discussed gameplay-wise, as we cannot really discuss the fight lore-wise since Gwyndolin wins that kind of fight without so much as breaking a sweat. So he has already won half the battle.

    If we consider the room to be about the same size as Nito's, then this fight, while not completely one-sided, is highly in favor of Gwyndolin. There is just enough distance in between one side and the other for Gwyndolin to make distance, so the Stray Demon will find itself 70% of the time running around.

    Gwyndolin on the other hand, will be using his distance and the Stray Demon's size to his advantage. His attacks were designed so they could be avoided with simple movements, but they pack a heavy punch. The Stray Demon is too big to be able to dodge them. So the 70% of the time the Stray Demon is running towards Gwyndolin, it'll be taking big damage.

    You could argue that the Stray Demon could tank his way and stun Gwyndolin, which is true, but it won't change anything. Gwyndolin will get stunned, then will attempt teleportation (where he gains infinite poise). In this time, Stray Demon could get at most 2 hits before having to turn around and run to the other corner while having to tank more hits.

    However, this fight is also conditional, if Gwyndolin spams his large magic ball, Stray Demon will win simply because its high HP will let it tank those. But, if Gwyndolin launches his bolts and homing magic, Stray Demon won't be able to take all those attacks before he knocks Gwyndolin away.

    I can't come to a solid conclusion as to who would win in terms of gameplay. Stray Demon has the bulk, but Gwyndolin has all of the tactical advantages. If I had to choose tho, I would say Stray Demon wins because I think its HP would hold out longer than Gwyndolin's miserable HP quantity, but just by a 1/4.

    So, with that said, Gwyndolin wins the lore fight and loses the gameplay fight  by a bit. So I would say Gwyndolin wins with a 70%. He's got my vote!

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    Re: BOSS BATTLE TOURNEY. Currently Round 25 Kalameet vs Manus.

    Post by Werdax on Thu Sep 12, 2013 3:04 pm

    As it has been said so many times before, it really depends on the arena of choice. If we placed the two aggressive foes on a middle size room, it also depend on their cleverness.
    Stray demon is so simpilistic, and will charge directly towards Gwyndolin, whereas Gwyndolin will teleport around the arena and shoot magic after the stray demon. Assuming Gwyndolin is clever enough to teleport away, time enough for him to dodge the stray demon's very punishing attacks, he will have a clear advantage.

    But assuming the stray demon can tank his attacks, Gwyndolin won't last long.
    I find it really hard to imagine the outcome as the two seems evenly matched. I would have to say Gwyndolin, though. Lore-wise, Gwyndolin is by far the victor. Gameplay-wise, is hard to tell.
    But brain over brawn, right? Normally not, but I figure Gwyndolin is more clever then that fat bastard.
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    Re: BOSS BATTLE TOURNEY. Currently Round 25 Kalameet vs Manus.

    Post by Soul of Stray Demon on Thu Sep 12, 2013 4:17 pm

    Ok then, with a score of 9 to 1, Gwyndolin beats the Stray Demon. 
    http://challonge.com/w079ujf4
    The poll will be updated as soon as possible, but you can start discussing now 

    Seath vs Nito.

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    Re: BOSS BATTLE TOURNEY. Currently Round 25 Kalameet vs Manus.

    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? on Thu Sep 12, 2013 6:24 pm

    Ooh, good one.

    I vote for Seath simply because he just does more damage. Normally, for the player, his attacks are slow and easy to avoid but Nito is pretty much the furthest thing from a DWGR wannabe gymnast so he is vulnerable.

    Seath takes Nito down.

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    Re: BOSS BATTLE TOURNEY. Currently Round 25 Kalameet vs Manus.

    Post by Soul of Stray Demon on Thu Sep 12, 2013 6:26 pm

    WhatDoesThePendantDo? wrote:Ooh, good one.

    I vote for Seath simply because he just does more damage. Normally, for the player, his attacks are slow and easy to avoid but Nito is pretty much the furthest thing from a DWGR wannabe gymnast so he is vulnerable.

    Seath takes Nito down.
    Remember Nito does get his skeletons though.

    So Seath has to take on multiple foes at once.

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    Re: BOSS BATTLE TOURNEY. Currently Round 25 Kalameet vs Manus.

    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? on Thu Sep 12, 2013 6:26 pm

    But Seath has his clams.

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    Re: BOSS BATTLE TOURNEY. Currently Round 25 Kalameet vs Manus.

    Post by Soul of Stray Demon on Thu Sep 12, 2013 6:30 pm

    WhatDoesThePendantDo? wrote:But Seath has his clams.
    NOOOOOOO.

    No way would he have clams...

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    Re: BOSS BATTLE TOURNEY. Currently Round 25 Kalameet vs Manus.

    Post by SirArchmage on Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:12 pm

    I believe you said this was in NG+? If so, then yes, I think Nito would win. The Skeletons would be putting out a surprising amount of damage consistently, and Seath would have no way to kill the skellies permanently. You could argue that Seath would curse them and win, though I am not sure that the skeletons would be able to be cursed. And even more doubtful Nito could. On NG, it would be very even, I think. Seaths AOE attacks could easily take out all the skellies at once, assuming they all do the predictable AI thing and rush straight forward into the attacks, invoking the very powerful crystal attack he does if you stay very close for too long. But, they would just stand back up, and Nito and the skellies attacking all together between the attacks are going to hurt.

    I have no idea how much sense this makes. I am half-asleep and sick, so apologies for grammatical errors.


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    Re: BOSS BATTLE TOURNEY. Currently Round 25 Kalameet vs Manus.

    Post by Seignar on Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:36 pm

    This is a tricky fight. Lorewise they should be even, but gameplay wise is quite tricky.

    If we were applying the current A.I. Seath would win because of his AoE attacks rendering Nito's numerical advantage useless (that is to say if we have a frontal assault). Seath also has greater DPS than Nito (due to having to compensate for his numerical advantage).

    If they were intelligent however, it could be a different story. Seath would get surrounded and Nito would stay back and spam his plunge attack, inflicting continuous damage on Seath. Seath would probably lose as Nito might tank his only long range move (the vertical beam) while he gets chopped by the small and giant skeletons.
    It would cost Seath too much to do away with the minions. So the only other option would be to directly aim for Nito, but Nito, despite being slow, could still walk back as his minions chip away at Seath. Which means Seath's only option would be the 360 AoE followed by pursuing Nito. Since Nito has a good beef of HP, Seath would lose the fight of attrition as opposed to a straight up fight.

    Nito would win in 2 of 3 events (1. Playing tactically; 2. Straight-up fight with skeletons surronding Seaht)
    Seath only wins in 1 case, when Nito is launching a straight assault with his minions.

    Vote goes to Nito.

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    Re: BOSS BATTLE TOURNEY. Currently Round 25 Kalameet vs Manus.

    Post by Soul of Stray Demon on Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:37 pm

    Seignar wrote:This is a tricky fight. Lorewise they should be even, but gameplay wise is quite tricky.

    If we were applying the current A.I. Seath would win because of his AoE attacks rendering Nito's numerical advantage useless (that is to say if we have a frontal assault). Seath also has greater DPS than Nito (due to having to compensate for his numerical advantage).

    If they were intelligent however, it could be a different story. Seath would get surrounded and Nito would stay back and spam his plunge attack, inflicting continuous damage on Seath. Seath would probably lose as Nito might tank his only long range move (the vertical beam) while he gets chopped by the small and giant skeletons.
    It would cost Seath too much to do away with the minions. So the only other option would be to directly aim for Nito, but Nito, despite being slow, could still walk back as his minions chip away at Seath. Which means Seath's only option would be the 360 AoE followed by pursuing Nito. Since Nito has a good beef of HP, Seath would lose the fight of attrition as opposed to a straight up fight.

    It is 50/50 since Seath wins by a straight up fight, yet Nito wins with a bit of tactical play. However, Nito gets the win because Seath's chances of winning will only apply if Nito and his minions do a frontal assault. Otherwise, Seath can't do much when surrounded (but he still does possess a chance of victory if Nito is in front of him).

    Nito would win in 2 of 3 events (1. Playing tactically; 2. Straight-up fight with skeletons surronding Seaht)
    Seath only wins in 1 case, when Nito is launching a straight assault with his minions.

    Vote goes to Nito.
    However... SEATH WOULD FLY, completely negating all of nito's moves. 


    So,...... do we allow him to fly at all?


    But yeah, Nito's skeletons shouldn't be doing a full out frontal attack on him anyway.

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    Re: BOSS BATTLE TOURNEY. Currently Round 25 Kalameet vs Manus.

    Post by Seignar on Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:45 pm

    If we let Seath fly (which he doesn't do in an actual fight), we must assume Nito will use his miasma (which he doesn't use) and we all know how well the everlasting dragons fared against that.

    That said we could also give Seath his immortality crystal, but that thing is so fragile Nito could simply order his skeletons to poke it. There would also be way too many skeletons for Seath to hold off consistently.

    So...if we would assume a cinematic fight (all bets are off, all abilities/possibilities accounted for) Nito would still win. Seath would have to deal with the miasma and protect his immortality crystal, but once that thing breaks it's over. Seath has way too many (immortal) skeleton minions to deal and if just one gets the crystal he is dead. Seath is blind so he can't do something smart like snipe Nito with his crystal breath from outside the miasma range.

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    Re: BOSS BATTLE TOURNEY. Currently Round 25 Kalameet vs Manus.

    Post by Serious_Much on Thu Sep 12, 2013 9:16 pm

    Poll is now up.

    Sorry for the delay, was out and busy


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    Re: BOSS BATTLE TOURNEY. Currently Round 25 Kalameet vs Manus.

    Post by Soul of Stray Demon on Thu Sep 12, 2013 9:18 pm

    IT"S FINE.(don't know why I shouted) Thank you.


    And Serious, next time, can you make it so we can cancel our vote in case we change our mind?

    Thank you though, for all your help with this thread.

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    Re: BOSS BATTLE TOURNEY. Currently Round 25 Kalameet vs Manus.

    Post by Sneezer on Thu Sep 12, 2013 10:01 pm

    Gwyn's bolts peeled the scales off of the dragons, which made them vulnerable to Nito's miasma of death and disease, killing the now scaleless dragons en masse.

    I don't think Seath would have much of a shot by default, with his receeding scale line and all.


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    Re: BOSS BATTLE TOURNEY. Currently Round 25 Kalameet vs Manus.

    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? on Fri Sep 13, 2013 12:31 am

    What about the Primordial Crystal, though? Yes, it is brittle, but, as far as I can tell it's pretty much nailed down to the Crystal Cave, and by Stray saying that Seath doesn't get clams that can only mean that the fight isn't in the Crystal Cave so how can Nito (or any of his skellies) hurt what can't be harmed?

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    Re: BOSS BATTLE TOURNEY. Currently Round 25 Kalameet vs Manus.

    Post by Seignar on Fri Sep 13, 2013 12:52 am

    Pff...Just because he's immortal doesn't mean he can't be beat. Just look what happened to Hidan!

    Anyways, just because there are no clams does not mean the fight is not staged in the Crystal Cave (or that we can't, for all intents and purposes, put the Primordial Crystal elsewhere). Nito simply gets his skeletons because they a part of him: They participate in the fight, are immortal and bound to Nito's health bar.

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    Re: BOSS BATTLE TOURNEY. Currently Round 25 Kalameet vs Manus.

    Post by SirArchmage on Fri Sep 13, 2013 1:28 am

    Seignar wrote:Pff...Just because he's immortal doesn't mean he can't be beat. Just look what happened to Hidan!
    My reaction to that
    Spoiler:
    Also, seeing as this is a boss battle AI fight and not a lore fight, think our votes should be centralized on that. Even though the lore-fight between the two would be kind of fun to watch.


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    Re: BOSS BATTLE TOURNEY. Currently Round 25 Kalameet vs Manus.

    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? on Fri Sep 13, 2013 1:29 am

    Seignar wrote:(or that we can't, for all intents and purposes, put the Primordial Crystal elsewhere)
    Why can we? There is no evidence to suggest that the Primordial Crystal can be picked up and moved about.

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    Re: BOSS BATTLE TOURNEY. Currently Round 25 Kalameet vs Manus.

    Post by Seignar on Fri Sep 13, 2013 1:44 am

    Then, we assume this battle is being done on Seath's turf. We will assume Seath is guarding his precious crystal and Nito has decided to kill Seath. We must also assume the A.I will be slightly competent for the first 10 seconds as they all aim for Seath's crystal. The battle will still be in Nito's hands. Seath will only win if Nito and his minions try a one-directional assault. If Seath gets surrounded, Nito will win.

    In this case, Nito's minions are faster than him, so by the time they destroy the crystal, Seath will have Nito up front and the skeletons behind. It is a pincer attack and Seath will lose.

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    Re: BOSS BATTLE TOURNEY. Currently Round 25 Kalameet vs Manus.

    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? on Fri Sep 13, 2013 2:10 am

    But on Seath's turf, he has minions of his own.

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    Re: BOSS BATTLE TOURNEY. Currently Round 25 Kalameet vs Manus.

    Post by Seignar on Fri Sep 13, 2013 2:24 am

    No he doesn't. Notice how the clams are outside of his fog gate. We must assume that the only possible minions for the bosses are those that are intentionally meant to be within the fog gate. Unlike Seath, Nito has all of his skeletons within his boss area.

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    Re: BOSS BATTLE TOURNEY. Currently Round 25 Kalameet vs Manus.

    Post by Werdax on Fri Sep 13, 2013 4:17 am

    With Seaths very powerful charging crystal attack, and his tentacle spasm, I personally see him as the winner of this fight. The skeletons will barely reach Seath before he obliterate them (Sure, they stand back up in a couple of seconds, but they are vulnerable as they do so).
    Nito is even more slow then Seath, and Seath's tentacles will merely push him at a distance, forcing Nito to spent hours reaching Seath again, only for Seath to repeat the process.

    It really depends on how the two would take advantage of their own attacks. If Seath rely more on reaching out for Nito, with his bare hand, then the fight is in Nito favor. If Seath however use his tentacles and his powerful crystal attack (Due to the aggressive skeletons who have probably surrounded him), then I can't see Nito walking out of that fight alive (Well... More dead then before).
    Nito does have his sword dance attack, which he does like to spam a lot, but it deals pathetically low damage, and the time it takes Nito to launch more then one sword dance, Seath will already be close by, launching a punishing attack.

    I vote for Seath.
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    Re: BOSS BATTLE TOURNEY. Currently Round 25 Kalameet vs Manus.

    Post by Wilkinson3424 on Fri Sep 13, 2013 9:16 am

    Lore-wise Nito would completely obliterate Seath.

    Nito has a complete lord soul, and has an army of immortal skeletons, his Gravelord sword dance would pierce his scale-less body.

    Seath is blind and since Nito does not make sound when moving Seath would have MAJOR disadvantages.

    I think Nito would be the clear and obvious winner.


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