About the Spam

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    Re: About the Spam

    Post by Hatsune Miku on Wed Sep 04, 2013 10:26 am

    This post I made supposably broke the forum rules. So just ignore this post.


    Last edited by Vinyl Scratch on Wed Sep 04, 2013 11:52 am; edited 1 time in total


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    Re: About the Spam

    Post by twigsterxd on Wed Sep 04, 2013 10:33 am

    Vinyl Scratch wrote:It's proof enough that it could work.
    No it's proof that you want to continue spamming and you want a section to do it. I'm going to comment on YOUR choose avatar thread. In your rules you asked people not to derail/spam your thread. Yet, you went to 3 or 4 other threads and spam/derailed there. As the saying goes, you can't have your cake and eat it too.

    What people don't understand, (that we are trying to get you to understand), is spam deters OTHERS from posting or wanting to post because it's a meaningless conversation that can just be held in the chat room since it's ALWAYS the same people doing it.

    Also, post counts is what quite a few people want to raise. Why make a section so people can start making a ton a useless posts just to get their numbers up. It's not a race to see who can post the most in a day.
    I can remember a certain someone who was banned from chat for a month or so. His post count was always around 80 per day. Having no chat to go into his count was well over 100 and most of those threads he created and topics he responded too were useless spam and/or derailment of those threads.

    Also, I still don't see where there's proof it will work. Showing Emergence someone else's spam site is proof that they don't care about the spam.

    I suggest that you delete that link as you broke 1 of the rules about posting links to other forums.
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    Re: About the Spam

    Post by Tolvo on Wed Sep 04, 2013 10:52 am

    Fine enough to disagree with the idea of a section for spam or another forum being posted, but try not to make this personally against Vinyl Twig.  Please calm down.
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    Re: About the Spam

    Post by lonewolf on Wed Sep 04, 2013 11:10 am

    are my pics seen on as spam?
    examplle:


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    Re: About the Spam

    Post by twigsterxd on Wed Sep 04, 2013 11:16 am

    it depends on if you are posting them in threads they don't belong. Like as of right now, that would be classed as spam because you could have just asked without posting the pic.

    I just looked at your posts. I would say they are more annoying than spam but I'd let the mods decide. We really don't need to see the big pic with every post you make. The smaller one in your sig would suffice.
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    Re: About the Spam

    Post by lonewolf on Wed Sep 04, 2013 11:29 am

    first thing is that posting those pictures is what i do and they often have messages hidden in them.
    plus that it is explained in my signature.
    taking it away would rob me of my forum identity an examlpe would be if tolvo was forced to just use one avatar.
    to stress the matter some more, my sign says ask and you shall know for a reasson.
    sorry for the small rant but its my identity on the forum were talking about.
    and i will head your wanrning and make them as small as i can.


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    Re: About the Spam

    Post by Tolvo on Wed Sep 04, 2013 11:37 am

    I'd say it wouldn't be spam if you just said the meaning with each post.  Otherwise it would be like posting in Russian to other people on an English site, then saying "If you want to know what it means ask and I'll translate."  You should post with the translation.
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    Re: About the Spam

    Post by Soris Ice Goldwing on Wed Sep 04, 2013 11:38 am

    Only thing I will ever say here is that this is up to the mods/admins to decide what is best about this issue that has surfaced. That is it because this is really annoying me to no ends though I am not nor will ever blame anyone here.


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    Re: About the Spam

    Post by Hatsune Miku on Wed Sep 04, 2013 12:04 pm

    twigsterxd wrote:
    Vinyl Scratch wrote:It's proof enough that it could work.
    No it's proof that you want to continue spamming and you want a section to do it. I'm going to comment on YOUR choose avatar thread. In your rules you asked people not to derail/spam your thread. Yet, you went to 3 or 4 other threads and spam/derailed there. As the saying goes, you can't have your cake and eat it too.

    What people don't understand, (that we are trying to get you to understand), is spam deters OTHERS from posting or wanting to post because it's a meaningless conversation that can just be held in the chat room since it's ALWAYS the same people doing it.

    Also, post counts is what quite a few people want to raise. Why make a section so people can start making a ton a useless posts just to get their numbers up. It's not a race to see who can post the most in a day.
    I can remember a certain someone who was banned from chat for a month or so. His post count was always around 80 per day. Having no chat to go into his count was well over 100 and most of those threads he created and topics he responded too were useless spam and/or derailment of those threads.

    Also, I still don't see where there's proof it will work. Showing Emergence someone else's spam site is proof that they don't care about the spam.

    I suggest that you delete that link as you broke 1 of the rules about posting links to other forums.
    You're completely missing the my point. I'm trying keep the spam out this section of the forums, or any other section for that matter, but moving the spam else where in it's own section to avoid spam in the normal topic sections of the forums.

    I take it you didn't even bother to view the other sections of the forum in the link I provided, when it was up. It was mainly contained with no spam and mainly on-topic posts in all the other sections of the forum. And if there was spam, the spam post was deleted with a reason behind. Trust me. I've been on that forum since 2008. I know what works and doesn't work on there.

    /rant


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    Re: About the Spam

    Post by twigsterxd on Wed Sep 04, 2013 12:12 pm

    Well to be fair, not every forum works the same way. Also, we would need that section modded all the time and lately, we don't have the manpower to do so. Leave it up to Fex and E, and if they say NO, leave it at that.
    Personally I vote no because I know it's something they actually don't want from what I've heard them say.


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    Re: About the Spam

    Post by Serious_Much on Wed Sep 04, 2013 12:13 pm

    Evidently vinyl the fact you haven't stopped shows you missed my point, so I'll repeat it bluntly.

    Spam does not belong on this forum. We do not want to just move the spam somewhere other than off topic, we want it to stop.

    If you want to spam, please spam in a forum that doesn't care about how it looks or have standards of how people should post.


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    Re: About the Spam

    Post by Hatsune Miku on Wed Sep 04, 2013 12:32 pm

    Vinyl Scratch wrote:You're completely missing the my point. I'm trying keep the spam out this section of the forums, or any other section for that matter. But the main objective of my idea is to create a safe haven for users to have fun and play text/word forum games. Examples of fun games to be involved in are:

    Answer a question with another question.

    Predict something about the user below you.

    The Word Association Game.

    Say it in three word. [Not sure how well this one would do on this forum]

    Corrupt a Wish.


    And more!

    People would have to abide by the set of rules the entire forum has and the rules of each thread game.
    And if someone wanted to create a new game thread. Then it would have to be approved by the admins/mods of this forum.

    And if you don't want to be apart of the Games Section of the forums don't go there!
    Looks like I got so worked up, I messed up my own point on what I was trying to say about my idea.

    I edited the quote above. Please reread it, and tell me it's not spam.
    Thank you.


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    Re: About the Spam

    Post by Soris Ice Goldwing on Wed Sep 04, 2013 12:33 pm

    Serious I think you are missing something. That is you can't remove spam 100% at all anywhere. It will and has happened before. The issue here is that the spam has gotten worse than before. Removing it won't solve it. Controlling and lessening it will.


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    Re: About the Spam

    Post by Serious_Much on Wed Sep 04, 2013 12:38 pm

    Soris Ice Goldwing wrote:Serious I think you are missing something. That is you can't remove spam 100% at all anywhere. It will and has happened before. The issue here is that the spam has gotten worse than before. Removing it won't solve it. Controlling and lessening it will.
    I have presented a way to control it- use random off topic. However obviously only borderline spam like forum games should go in there, not just random rubbish.

    At the moment I'm taking an extra hard line on spam to reduce the problem swiftly. Once people have changed their perspective ad attitude to spam to an acceptable level I can stop being so tough on it.


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    Re: About the Spam

    Post by skarekrow13 on Wed Sep 04, 2013 1:13 pm

    I'm gonna have to back Serious' latest post. And add a couple thoughts I haven't seen yet.

    First, the goal is not to eliminate it entirely I don't think. Occasionally we all add something off topic, or silly, or meaningless. But certain threads have lost their entire core and value due to the excess. Random Off Topic always had those little things but it used to feel like a conversation that was free form rather than many pages of quoteception and one word responses. That's the difference that Serious keeps bringing up. No one is saying it has to stop entirely but it should be limited so that conversations can still occur around it. In essence, the spam REPLACED the conversation rather than being a minor roadbump or comical occasional distraction.

    Second, the idea to create another section for fun and games that stay on topic is this section. Serious has been more, um, serious about locking than the history has been but in all cases from what I've seen it was a thread that was a duplicate, a poststravaganza with no thought behind it, or intentionally useless. I think this section has demonstrated numerous times that games are acceptable and fit in here. However, the spam problem at it's root, has led to even the silly games devolving to the point where participants leave or just never join in the fun.



    Final thought:

    The claim is that people just want to have fun and should be allowed to and that's true. But the excess that spam has gotten to on occasion has killed games, it has turned threads sour, it has made active and thoughtful participants and members choose to leave, it has driven off potential new participants. In short, all the fun and playful conversations we want are still fair game.

    But constant spam posts ruin the fun for all but a few members as it is a conversation killer.

    There is your delineating factor, your definition, your threshold. If it's no longer a conversation among potentially everyone on the forum...it is a problem.

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    Re: About the Spam

    Post by Hatsune Miku on Wed Sep 04, 2013 1:26 pm

    I'm done with this wretched topic.
    I've stated my opinion, you've stated yours.
    We have both made valid statements. And we both have differing opinions.
    I agree spam isn't all that great. And it can and will ruin a good topic of discussion.
    Now let's stop there, and move the **** on! Cause I'm sick of arguing with if your going to be so hard nosed about it. It's pissing me the **** off!


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    Re: About the Spam

    Post by Soul of Stray Demon on Wed Sep 04, 2013 1:32 pm

    Vinyl Scratch wrote:I'm done with this wretched topic.
    I've stated my opinion, you've stated yours.
    We have both made valid statements. And we both have differing opinions.
    I agree spam isn't all that great. And it can and will ruin a good topic of discussion.
    Now let's stop there, and move the **** on! Cause I'm sick of arguing with if your going to be so hard nosed about it. It's pissing me the **** off!
    Hey, Vinyl, although I mostly agree with you. I don't think this is the way to go about discussing it.

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    Re: About the Spam

    Post by skarekrow13 on Wed Sep 04, 2013 1:36 pm

    This merits it's own post because I would like everyone to see the amount of leeway you actually do have in this section, provided the nonsense and spam are kept under check:

    This thread was one that most of us felt would be locked really quickly.  You'll notice I was the first reply.  Because I wanted to get something "inb4" the thread's demise. 24 pages later and....


    It's still not locked.  This sorry excuse for a thread based on the thin premise of Dark and Demon's Souls innuendo is crude, childish and in most ways pretty awful.  Don't get me wrong...I love this thread but those things are still all very true.  

    Anyway...this is allowed to continue its existence.  You have A TON of freedom in this forum.  You can have games, jokes, conversation about anything.  Honestly, the reason most of us stayed so long here is BECAUSE we've talked about such a great variety of things.  It's BECAUSE we can joke and be lighthearted with one another.  

    That thread is everything you could ask for in craziness and fun.  Spam would have killed that too.  Rapid, nonsensical posts kill conversations, not enhance them.

    Edited to respond to the latest post:

    I had to decide if I wanted to keep this post as is or delete it as the topic is obviously becoming inflammatory. I decided to keep it. Primarily as I hope more than the heated participants will see this. The reason Serious, I and others are so vehement in our request to tone spam down is because we miss threads like I just shared. They used to be the constant. All topics used to have this type of camaraderie and inclusiveness. It's why most of the "old guard" have stuck around for so long. We like the camaraderie and the feeling that everyone is here to share. So yeah, we might be a little hardnosed on the subject. But why wouldn't we be? When's the last time one of the forum games got to 24 pages? And the vast majority of it was people playing the game? Take a look through those pages as well. When's the last time you saw that variety of people taking part in a forum game? Most of those members still come here.

    Take a second and think what's causing these same people, always prevalent in shenanigans before, to hold back now. We've heard the complaints. We've made the complaints. It's the mod/admin's job to heed the writing on the wall.

    Many, many people who are valuable to the community have said "enough."

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    Re: About the Spam

    Post by Soul of Stray Demon on Wed Sep 04, 2013 1:39 pm

    skarekrow13 wrote:This merits it's own post because I would like everyone to see the amount of leeway you actually do have in this section, provided the nonsense and spam are kept under check:

    This thread was one that most of us felt would be locked really quickly.  You'll notice I was the first reply.  Because I wanted to get something "inb4" the thread's demise. 24 pages later and....


    It's still not locked.  This sorry excuse for a thread based on the thin premise of Dark and Demon's Souls innuendo is crude, childish and in most ways pretty awful.  Don't get me wrong...I love this thread but those things are still all very true.  

    Anyway...this is allowed to continue its existence.  You have A TON of freedom in this forum.  You can have games, jokes, conversation about anything.  Honestly, the reason most of us stayed so long here is BECAUSE we've talked about such a great variety of things.  It's BECAUSE we can joke and be lighthearted with one another.  

    That thread is everything you could ask for in craziness and fun.  Spam would have killed that too.  Rapid, nonsensical posts kill conversations, not enhance them.

    Edited to respond to the latest post:

    I had to decide if I wanted to keep this post as is or delete it as the topic is obviously becoming inflammatory.  I decided to keep it.  Primarily as I hope more than the heated participants will see this.  The reason Serious, I and others are so vehement in our request to tone spam down is because we miss threads like I just shared.  They used to be the constant.  All topics used to have this type of camaraderie and inclusiveness.  It's why most of the "old guard" have stuck around for so long.  We like the camaraderie and the feeling that everyone is here to share.  So yeah, we might be a little hardnosed on the subject.  But why wouldn't we be?  When's the last time one of the forum games got to 24 pages?  And the vast majority of it was people playing the game?  Take a look through those pages as well.  When's the last time you saw that variety of people taking part in a forum game?  Most of those members still come here.  

    Take a second and think what's causing these same people, always prevalent in shenanigans before, to hold back now.  We've heard the complaints.  We've made the complaints.  It's the mod/admin's job to heed the writing on the wall.  

    Many, many people who are valuable to the community have said "enough."  
    Argubly, the reason forum games haven't gotten that long, is because they keep getting locked. ..... Just gonna say that. 

    Although spam is a problem here, I do think the problem is being somewhat exaggerated. I don't think it's happening as much as ya'll are saying it is.


    Oh and a forum game that got to 24 pages is this one http://soulswiki.forumsrpg.com/t23853-random-things.


    But then locked by Serious because the thread had evolved into something different then the original post. When I changed the original post to fit how the thread was working then, it was misinterpreted and locked.

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    Re: About the Spam

    Post by twigsterxd on Wed Sep 04, 2013 1:42 pm

    Demon you haven't been here as long as some of us. I've only been here since April and have seen quite a bit of it.

    I'm suggesting a lock since this is getting us no where.


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    Re: About the Spam

    Post by Tolvo on Wed Sep 04, 2013 1:42 pm

    Soul there have been periods recently where I just don't read any threads in off topic because I know that the majority of the time I check them there's just a wall of pointless responses without any thought put into them.

    I also often don't respond in said threads because by the time I'm done with my post I'd have been preparing, the thread is onto a new page and my post is suddenly useless.  

    The spam is an issue and frankly it has been driving me away from Off-Topic.
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    Re: About the Spam

    Post by Soul of Stray Demon on Wed Sep 04, 2013 1:44 pm

    twigsterxd wrote:Demon you haven't been here as long as some of us. I've only been here since April and have seen quite a bit of it.

    I'm suggesting a lock since this is getting us no where.
       Like I said though. I know it's happening, but I don't believe it is as big as an issue as people are making it out to be.
       I can see how things have changed, and truthfully, I see it more as people trying to have fun, and interact, then pointless spam... Sure some of it could be cut down, but I still believe my point holds.

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    Re: About the Spam

    Post by Soul of Stray Demon on Wed Sep 04, 2013 1:46 pm

    Tolvo wrote:Soul there have been periods recently where I just don't read any threads in off topic because I know that the majority of the time I check them there's just a wall of pointless responses without any thought put into them.

    I also often don't respond in said threads because by the time I'm done with my post I'd have been preparing, the thread is onto a new page and my post is suddenly useless.  

    The spam is an issue and frankly it has been driving me away from Off-Topic.
    Do what lots of people do, respond a page later. Just because a thread is really active doesn't mean it's spam. In fact, one could argue it's not, just because obviously there a few members who really like it then. 

    For the most part it's not spam, it's just an active thread.


    Sorry for the double post, I was typing the one above and when I went to submit it, someone had already posted after me.

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    Re: About the Spam

    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? on Wed Sep 04, 2013 1:53 pm

    Vinyl, please calm down.

    You said you PM'ed Emergence, if so, then it's best to just wait and see what he has to say to. Lashing out indiscriminately here is weakening your position even if you don't realize it.

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    Re: About the Spam

    Post by Serious_Much on Wed Sep 04, 2013 1:55 pm

    Stray I locked random things because you changed your OP to say "Feel free to spam this thread", or words to that effect. Quite literally breaking the no spam rule. DId you really think a thread that asks people to spam would stay open?

    I am locking this. People are getting too angsty about what should be a thread that appeals to people to obey the rules so that everyone can enjoy the off topic section and those it is aimed at should have said "okay", even if you disagreed.

    The fact is, reducing the spamming allows everyone to get involved once more. I'm sure you love off topic being a devoted playground for certain groups of people, but this forum is for everyone, not just you guys and I'm doing my best to accommodate everyone.

    I'm sad that you guys cannot understand why we are asking you to stop or even accept it. However you must understand your objections and difference in opinion does not mean you are exempt. This forum's rules are not open to interpretation by members, they are to be represented by the moderation team. I try to accept other's opinions the best I can, but if your ideas or opinions break the rules I cannot condone them.

    I'm ending the spamming discussion now. This has gone on long enough. If you keep choosing to ignore the definition of spam the forum has and break the rules, I will unfortunately be forced to take action. I don't want to do it for something so stupid, but as talking it out has not made you respond positively, I've no choice but to enforce the rule in other ways.


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