About the Spam

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    Serious_Much
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    Re: About the Spam

    Post by Serious_Much on Tue Sep 03, 2013 8:12 pm

    You'll have to give me specifics, I don't remember everything that happens to be honest.

    Also a conversation regarding forum rules- how could that ever be considered spam?


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    Re: About the Spam

    Post by Reaperfan on Tue Sep 03, 2013 8:14 pm

    Serious_Much wrote:It's because it was a completely pointless thread. Literally aimless. I mean even the pizza thread has more room for discussion.

    Apologies that you don't like it, but honestly there's no reason it merited a whole extra thread. Just do it in random off topic if you're gonna do it anywhere

    I'm cracking down on it because off topic needs to embrace discussion more. Sure it's fun, but it doesn't stop it being spam. If you wanna do pointless stuff, do it in random off topic. That's literally what it's there for now.
    That just seems like forcing threads to be about wider categories though. That thread was about spreading a particular kind of humor along the same vein as the Meme thread. Or are you saying that it needs to be an "all-purpose joke sharing" thread to have enough "potential content" to not be considered spam?

    Random Off-topic is nice for various things, but I don't like the idea that it's being treated as a fall-back that forces other, more focused types of things being shared. It's hard to maintain any kind of focus in Random Off-topic for an extended period of time. Sure, the Spitoon thread wouldn't have likely lasted long, but for now it stayed on-topic and hadn't devolved into anything like the "rate the avatar" or "ask about me" threads did. It just seems like the decision to lock it right at this time was hasty, whether you saw enough content there for it to last or not.


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    Re: About the Spam

    Post by Serious_Much on Tue Sep 03, 2013 8:21 pm

    Well it was just spam. It doesn't really matter if the posts were on topic if the content was meaningless spam. If someone created a shouting thread, it would still be spam because it's just a spam thread by definition- it's pointless, thoughtless and redundant.

    To not be spam for me, there needs to be potential for thought, discussion, creativity or another purpose such as music sharing in the jukebox thread. Obviously that thread didn't really have any of that and it felt like something that should have just been random off topic. Previously i would have just merged it, but since spam is a hot topic recently, locking it and leaving it in the open as an example was ideal.

    Just think back to that picture you posted reaper. I don't really think that thread fitted into the intelligent side of that faux-proverb


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    Re: About the Spam

    Post by Reaperfan on Tue Sep 03, 2013 8:40 pm

    Serious_Much wrote:-snip-
    Maybe it's just a fundamental differentiation between us, but I believe the ability to make jokes falls under "creativity." Being presented a template and then finding the right choice of words to elicit a desired response takes some mental chops to do well. Just because none of us happened to be particularly good at that yet in that thread doesn't mean the potential for someone to wordsmith us into laughter wasn't there.

    Also, if "music sharing" works, then why not "joke sharing?"

    And you may be misunderstanding the quote. The quote has nothing to do with intelligence, only intent. If someone has something to say, they should say it, regardless of how correct/incorrect or insightful/ignorant it may be. It just needs to be something the person actually wants to say.


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    Re: About the Spam

    Post by Serious_Much on Tue Sep 03, 2013 8:50 pm

    I have no problem with joke sharing. But it wasn't joke sharing. It was a thread that literally just asked people to say they were tough. If thats not pointless reaper I don't know what is. It's just like when people are being funny and witty by repeated meme conversations. Yeah it's funny, but it's spam.

    The way i was referring to the pic was saying that it didn't fit into the thinking about posting. As to be honest it wasn't really.

    As I said, most times I would have just put it in random off topic, but I wanted to discourage that kind of pointless thread being made. If it has no longevity as you said, I don't really get why it would merit it's own thread rather than going in random off topic.

    My efforts really are to try and raise the bar in off topic. Spam and redundant threads isn't what the section is for. Fact is some quite interesting threads get swept under the rug by spam threads which is disappointing, and having spammy pointless threads makes the place seem a bit low brow. I'm not saying we're above all that, but I think confining it to one place rather than allowing it to overrun the off topic section is a decent cause. Don't you?


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    Re: About the Spam

    Post by Soul of Stray Demon on Tue Sep 03, 2013 8:55 pm

    Reaperfan wrote:
    Serious_Much wrote:-snip-
    Maybe it's just a fundamental differentiation between us, but I believe the ability to make jokes falls under "creativity."  Being presented a template and then finding the right choice of words to elicit a desired response takes some mental chops to do well.  Just because none of us happened to be particularly good at that yet in that thread doesn't mean the potential for someone to wordsmith us into laughter wasn't there.

    Also, if "music sharing" works, then why not "joke sharing?"

    And you may be misunderstanding the quote.  The quote has nothing to do with intelligence, only intent.  If someone has something to say, they should say it, regardless of how correct/incorrect or insightful/ignorant it may be.  It just needs to be something the person actually wants to say.
    No need Reaper, I've got you covered. http://soulswiki.forumsrpg.com/t24208-joke-sharing-thread#511087

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    Re: About the Spam

    Post by skarekrow13 on Tue Sep 03, 2013 8:58 pm

    If I could chime in it's also a duplicate thread. Tolvo already had a thread to regale people with exaggerated exploits. I won it. Obviously

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    Re: About the Spam

    Post by Zeta Prime on Tue Sep 03, 2013 9:14 pm

    Personally, I see off-Topic as a place to have this kind of "spam" like fun. Some of the threads that are being locked just seem like fun little forum activities not spam exactly. Maybe I just have a different definition of spam than most.. but people in off-Topic are just having fun.. It's off-topic because the threads don't have to correlate with anything relevant to the souls series. I understand if the thread has 0 purpose at all but little fun threads in which people are having fun and replying with witty banter isn't exactly spam in my humble opinion.

    my 2 cents.


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    Re: About the Spam

    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? on Tue Sep 03, 2013 9:17 pm

    Let me ally with Stray and Reaper here for a sec, but how about instead of outright locking a thread why not PM either the OP or the people in the thread you think are spamming. Seeing 3 locked threads a day because of spam is almost as big a problem as the spam is.

    Like Reaper said, the Salty Spittoon thread probably would have only lasted for another 2 days - max.

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    Re: About the Spam

    Post by skarekrow13 on Tue Sep 03, 2013 9:22 pm

    The biggest problem I've seen isn't the tone or atmosphere it's the lack of effort and rapid posting making it hard for others. Primarily, the issue is when someone wants to join a conversation and by the time they can formulate a reply there's five replies that water down what you wanted to say.

    I can understand that for a text wall like I'm famous for but it's been bad enough where even casual games are affected. For instance, I wanted to point out in the old avatar thread something about someone's latest picture. Literally two sentences is all I had and the person just posted. I had to come back later because by the time I hit "send" there were several posts with no thought that made my idea irrelevant to the current tone. That's the kinda thing that's increasing. Or was.

    I don't wanna single people out either because it's just a habit that crept in. All the people doing it are fun and thoughtful and I enjoy company here. I'd just rather see more care and meaning and less commotion. Essentially, how can 50 people contribute to a thread when three or four are posting so rapidly that all other content is drowned out?

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    Re: About the Spam

    Post by Rifter7 on Tue Sep 03, 2013 9:25 pm

    Prostration


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    Re: About the Spam

    Post by bunnywink on Tue Sep 03, 2013 9:27 pm

    Well said, Skare.


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    Re: About the Spam

    Post by Serious_Much on Tue Sep 03, 2013 9:30 pm

    Poli and pendant- valid points both.

    Poli- I like banter, but it needs to be in a reasonable thread. What id rather have is jokes and mick taking in threads that are more than pointless or redundant threads. I think really the OP should think first if a thread is redundant or if it merits it's own thread first.

    Pendant- very true that option should have been considered. The problem is though if the entire basis of a thread is the issue then I don't think a PM would help, though the "random things" thread that would I admit have been an ideal actions. Despite this I could say that the ridiculousness is more in the fact that there have been 3 threads in the past day that have needed locking. The forum attitude towards spam is the reason for this. It's only been exposed now because the spam has got to the point where I've actually had to start enforcing the rule against it.

    Skare that's a very good point. The avatar thread was horrendous for that, amongst others


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    Re: About the Spam

    Post by Rifter7 on Tue Sep 03, 2013 9:35 pm

    what can we do..? i'm not sure the people guilty of it are aware of it, and it seems like such a drastic change for them now..

    can it be fixed? realistically?


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    Re: About the Spam

    Post by Serious_Much on Tue Sep 03, 2013 9:40 pm

    To be honest I just want to try to reduce it. Thing is there are threads that are borderline, but are accepted for one reason or another and some which fall foul of the line and get shut. Thing is its become just too prevalent, both in spam threads and in spamming of individual threads.

    Rather than singling people out, I've tried to give guidance through the examples of locked threads and I've explained what can be considered spam quite a bit. I admit that it may not be as effective as singling people out, but I'm not gonna go on a witch hunt just for spamming, it's just a bad posting habit more than anything else


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    Re: About the Spam

    Post by Soul of Stray Demon on Tue Sep 03, 2013 9:42 pm

    Serious_Much wrote:To be honest I just want to try to reduce it. Thing is there are threads that are borderline, but are accepted for one reason or another and some which fall foul of the line and get shut. Thing is its become just too prevalent, both in spam threads and in spamming of individual threads.

    Rather than singling people out, I've tried to give guidance through the examples of locked threads and I've explained what can be considered spam quite a bit. I admit that it may not be as effective as singling people out, but I'm not gonna go on a witch hunt just for spamming, it's just a bad posting habit more than anything else
    And spam isn't really a thing that can argued whether it is or not. 
    Obviously my idea of spam is much different then Serious's.

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    Re: About the Spam

    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? on Tue Sep 03, 2013 9:50 pm

    Can't people just take the spam to the Chatbox?

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    Re: About the Spam

    Post by Soul of Stray Demon on Tue Sep 03, 2013 9:51 pm

    WhatDoesThePendantDo? wrote:Can't people just take the spam to the Chatbox?
    Once again, the idea of what spam is differs. So what's spam to you may not be to me.

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    Re: About the Spam

    Post by skarekrow13 on Tue Sep 03, 2013 9:54 pm

    Spam is just as bad in chat. Look back at what I said. When the rapid, less thoughtful posts get to be a detriment to others joining in, it's a problem

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    Re: About the Spam

    Post by Serious_Much on Tue Sep 03, 2013 9:55 pm

    WhatDoesThePendantDo? wrote:Can't people just take the spam to the Chatbox?
    A while ago though we actually had a problem with the amount of spam in the chat box.. Though its not an issue now, too much spam just as in threads can deter posters and others getting involved.

    I agree though some topics like the tough thread would actually suit the chatbox more so than a thread.. Though it still can cause issues if the spam dominates the chatbox


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    Re: About the Spam

    Post by Zeta Prime on Tue Sep 03, 2013 10:38 pm

    I do have to agree with many people here. I left somewhere in late june and early july and returned late august to find that there were many threads that seemed less engaging in the quality of conversation that they used to see. But check it; I'm not trying to offend anyone or whatever I'm just trying to say that there were more people making topics back then. topics that are being labelled as Spam were always around, iv prolly made a few of em myself.

    Maybe we have to face that while there is less and less to talk about the souls games, off-topic will become the leading place to post. The lack of Souls related discussion means that many people will be taking temporary leave. until this leave is over we may be seeing an increase in posts that have little to do with relevant topics, but more to do with fun and quick flowing ideas.


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    Re: About the Spam

    Post by twigsterxd on Tue Sep 03, 2013 10:52 pm

    I agree with what you're saying Poli but here's the problem. A lot of these, (spam type), threads are getting ridiculous and redundant. I can remember Fex one day telling people to take certain conversations to a pm and leave them out of the chat and threads.
    Here's what is happening. At least 80% of the latest threads are being posted by the same people and being answered by all those same people. Conversations are being held in that section and from what Fex had said, it's against the rules. Most of these people also frequent the chat. So instead of chatting there, they create a thread. That thread gets locked due to spam, so another one gets created with a different title and almost the same topic talked about.
    And, the part I find funny is, it's NOT the new members doing it, it's the members who have been here for awhile who should KNOW what the rules are.


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    Re: About the Spam

    Post by Hatsune Miku on Tue Sep 03, 2013 10:58 pm

    Spam was most abundant when Renny / RenegadeCop was here, even more than now. From what he tells me. He's looked back at the things he's done here. And he wishes he had done differently.


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    Re: About the Spam

    Post by Reaperfan on Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:05 pm

    Serious_Much wrote:My efforts really are to try and raise the bar in off topic. Spam and redundant threads isn't what the section is for. Fact is some quite interesting threads get swept under the rug by spam threads which is disappointing, and having spammy pointless threads makes the place seem a bit low brow. I'm not saying we're above all that, but I think confining it to one place rather than allowing it to overrun the off topic section is a decent cause. Don't you?
    Sorry for not replying, had some family stuff come up I had to take care of straight face

    I can respect this outlook, I just think we have different ideas on where the line should be drawn as to what is okay and what isn't. With you being a mod now, I can also understand why your viewpoint might be stricter than mine.

    Honestly though, to the best of my knowledge, I haven't seen many relevant off-topic threads lost to any kind of swarm of "spam threads." While we've always had some "spam threads" floating around, there's rarely more than 3 or 4 active at any given time, which is hardly enough to push a more involving thread out of the top page. If you think about it, when was the last time one of the bigger threads like the Random Off-Topic, Brony, or Let it Out threads weren't on the first page?

    I guess if I had to be asking something from all this, it goes back to the timing. We've had some good threads start off with silly or "spam-worthy" topics, just as we've had some good topics devolve into spam. Give so-called "spam threads" a day or two to run its course, and if nothing more relevant has come from it then go ahead and lock it. That gives people time to get the silliness out of their system without feeling like their fun was cut too short, and also gives the topic time to potentially grow into something more relevant. The speed with which the Spitoon thread was locked, for lack of the mental powers to come up with a better phrase, left people hanging.

    Now to actually read the next two pages of the thread and see what all of this has already been addressed...


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    Re: About the Spam

    Post by Hatsune Miku on Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:28 pm

    Reaperfan wrote:
    Give so-called "spam threads" a day or two to run its course, and if nothing more relevant has come from it then go ahead and lock it.  That gives people time to get the silliness out of their system without feeling like their fun was cut too short, and also gives the topic time to potentially grow into something more relevant.  The speed with which the Spitoon thread was locked, for lack of the mental powers to come up with a better phrase, left people hanging.
    As much as I like what Serious is doing. I have to say, I like this idea that you have come up with, ReaperFan.
    It gives a little bit more stuff for people to do in there free time. Just being silly, as long as it's on topic.

    What do you think Serious?


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