Pets/Summons

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    SadPanda
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    Pets/Summons

    Post by SadPanda on Sun Aug 25, 2013 4:20 pm

    I searched the last 3 pages of the Dark Souls 2 section and I didn't see a thread about pets/summons.

    So do you think they would add depth to the gameplay? Or would it dilute what Dark Souls is about?

    Personally, I think it would work very well. If you added a sense of loss to a pet or summon, I feel it would be a great edition. You would have to maintain it's health, and use your own souls to level it up. And constantly making sure it was healthy and maintained would make you feel like you have a purpose. You're looking after something that can't defend itself, and training it to help you. This could work in a variety of ways, like pets or summons having different skills and attributes.

    For example, a bear would be able to take a lot of hits, and dish out a lot of physical damage. However something like a crow or a dog would be more of a flanking offensive, or would provide some sort of technique, like a screech to disorient enemies or a bark to distract them. If you've played Pokemon, you know how it feels to raise up a level 5 starter to level 60 and it being your best fighter.

    Obviously this would need a lot of balancing to make it viable, but not overpowered. Since there are confirmed woodland areas, there will obviously be animals you have to fight. But if you're something like a druid, you could gain it as an ally and summon it at will. As something like a hunter, you could trap it and train it to obey you.

    If the pet or summon is killed, it could be permanently dead. OR would require a massive amount of souls and items to do a ritual type thing similar to reversing hollowing with humanity. If you couldn't do that, there would be a gravestone/sign/memorial placed where it was killed, or in the "sanctuary" type area like Firelink Shrine.

    Either way, I honestly think that it would bring a new layer of depth to the already amazing atmosphere of Dark Souls.


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    Re: Pets/Summons

    Post by Soul of Stray Demon on Sun Aug 25, 2013 4:22 pm

    I think something similar was discussed before.

    Truthfully it seems against the spirit of souls, just the idea of the player character being able to form a bond.

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    Re: Pets/Summons

    Post by SadPanda on Sun Aug 25, 2013 4:25 pm

    Soul of Stray Demon wrote:Just the idea of the player character being able to form a bond.
    Yeah but breaking that bond would reinforce the loneliness of Souls. Going into an area you know it could easily die would add to the tension that From are trying to pursue. And after it's lost, it shows how lonely the Souls universe really is.


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    Re: Pets/Summons

    Post by Soul of Stray Demon on Sun Aug 25, 2013 4:27 pm

    And seems even harder to implement with invasions. Unless you actually had to summon your pet at each level, it would ruin 1v1. And even then, it would allow solo ganks.

    I would actually love that to be implemented, I just think it would be next to impossible.

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    Re: Pets/Summons

    Post by SadPanda on Sun Aug 25, 2013 4:34 pm

    Soul of Stray Demon wrote:And seems even harder to implement with invasions. Unless you actually had to summon your pet at each level, it would ruin 1v1. And even then, it would allow solo ganks.

    I would actually love that to be implemented, I just think it would be next to impossible.
    Disallowing summons or different "power levels" of pets taking up the summon slots would suffice.

    Ex. Small animals: Dogs, Birds, etc. = 1 summon slot.
    Large animals: Bears, Wolves, etc. = 2 summon slots.




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    Re: Pets/Summons

    Post by Soul of Stray Demon on Sun Aug 25, 2013 4:35 pm

    Or maybe it could be an offline option for those without internet.

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    Re: Pets/Summons

    Post by SadPanda on Sun Aug 25, 2013 4:37 pm

    Soul of Stray Demon wrote:Or maybe it could be an offline option for those without internet.
    But then that would alienate online gameplay, which Bamco is pushing pretty hard.

    I think it would be fine for it to be both online/offline, just like NPC summons.


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    Re: Pets/Summons

    Post by Soul of Stray Demon on Sun Aug 25, 2013 4:39 pm

    Yeah, I guess, would be cool if it was allowed to summon only after you beat the boss, so a just for fun thing.

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    Re: Pets/Summons

    Post by SirArchmage on Sun Aug 25, 2013 4:52 pm

    I think this is a great idea really. The thought of losing something like that would really make me reconsider my sometimes suicidal runs in the game. I personally would just want a dog. Or a wolf. And sometimes, in my dreams, I imagine I can have a corgi fight along side me in Dark Souls.

    Also, something similar but not completely this was discussed by LunarFog a while ago. Though she had an idea that there would be an entire class set-up based around it, with quick summons that you could use to fight for you. Two very different ideas, but still similar. I like yours a bit better, as it would mean my tanks could have a huge bear walking beside it.


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    Re: Pets/Summons

    Post by twigsterxd on Mon Aug 26, 2013 12:47 am

    Pet summons isn't part of the series. The only pet, (so to speak), is sif. Having a pet doesn't make sense. If you had a pet, it would take away co-op because you really wouldn't need anybody else.


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    Re: Pets/Summons

    Post by SadPanda on Mon Aug 26, 2013 12:52 am

    Not really true. A pet would serve as mostly a novelty, but viable enough that people could actually put then to use. And what about the people who play offline? They should have some sort of companion.


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    Re: Pets/Summons

    Post by twigsterxd on Mon Aug 26, 2013 12:59 am

    There's always summons like solaire and probably will be something like it again. Why add things that don't fit the criteria of the game? You need to remember where DkS is set and when it is. If it was real life, an animal wouldn't last there cause it would end up as dinner for you or one of the beasts lol
    Also, like I said ^, there's no animals in the series


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    Re: Pets/Summons

    Post by skarekrow13 on Mon Aug 26, 2013 1:06 am

    I think, even with the potential of loss, it would take away the core of loneliness. Here's the difference that I see between a pet type mechanic and normal summons:

    Potential permanence. The concept of summoning someone to help you is that they will be gone soon. Even if they do well they can't last past the next boss. Companions are fleeting and interactions with anyone that could be construed as significant are destined to be over soon. Even with a pet, if it dies, there's the concept that "I had a companion once..." Also using the idea of it being an extension of the self and either attacking or providing alternate abilities etc. is alien to me for this series. There are a few ways to convey intent to another player (and you can actually message them but it's not really a gameplay feature, more like an unfortunate accident). However, the built in limitation in communication is also intentional and enhances the lack of a team. I enjoy the idea of solo so much in these games that, during my first time through, I refused to even entertain the idea of help with Ornstein and Smough (all the bosses actually).

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    Re: Pets/Summons

    Post by SadPanda on Mon Aug 26, 2013 1:08 am

    Yeah, especially like dogs, cats, and rats. They've never been in Souls games.


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    Re: Pets/Summons

    Post by twigsterxd on Mon Aug 26, 2013 1:28 am

    Alvina is not considered a pet, the rats and dogs are ALWAYS mutants.

    This will be my last post in this thread. I don't agree with this idea because it does NOT fit the genre of this game.

    You wanted opinions, I gave mine. Don't get upset cause you don't like what I say.


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    Re: Pets/Summons

    Post by SadPanda on Mon Aug 26, 2013 1:32 am

    I was fine with your opinion, don't get
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    Re: Pets/Summons

    Post by TheWanderer101 on Mon Aug 26, 2013 2:05 am

    Alright nerds calm down haha. On topic i don't really want pets or summonable companions I do however want animal npcs,  I always think back to Resident Evil 4 and the wolf I would love something similar in dark souls.
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    Re: Pets/Summons

    Post by Sleeprocket on Mon Aug 26, 2013 6:05 am

    Sounds like a nice idea.Sifs summon could be a example.I always wanted a companion for my adventures in Dark Souls but if the companion is dead it should stay dead.
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    Re: Pets/Summons

    Post by Werdax on Mon Aug 26, 2013 6:53 am

    I personally wouldn't like this in Dark Souls. As it has been mentioned so many times before, it would take away the loneliness of Dark souls. Sure, it would be absolutely heartbreaking if any cruel fate should befell the poor animal. But having a constant a four legged AI following you would be problematic on several occasions. Such as narrow corridors, ledges, ladders, darkened areas, invasions and enemy interactions.

    I can't see it ever being a reality, although I do like the idea. I would probably prefer to go without an animal companion though, even if it was a possibility.
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    Re: Pets/Summons

    Post by Uparkaam on Mon Aug 26, 2013 10:06 am

    They'd probaly always get stuck somewhere. Or they'd just fall off a cliff and die.

    But at least it would be somehow possible to cosplay as Capra.


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    Re: Pets/Summons

    Post by raecor14 on Mon Aug 26, 2013 8:30 pm

    the problem with pets and summons, as im sure has been stated many times by now, is that they would become the metta. why make a build without one? why would you not have a wolf fight alongside you. it is a cool concept i agree but when it comes down to it dark souls is not a game that would work with these, imagine being ganked by 9 people when invading? 3 players with 2 summons each. you could never win.


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    Re: Pets/Summons

    Post by SlothAlmighty on Tue Sep 24, 2013 10:41 pm

    could have a special summon spell for use in certain situations like calling a squirrel to attack then run to drawout/distract an enemy.  it would leave after being killed or if the enemy is killed.
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    Re: Pets/Summons

    Post by Shakie666 on Wed Sep 25, 2013 10:16 am

    I agree with what everyone said really; good idea but doesn't fit into the DkS series. A way around that problem might be to make them so they won't go anywhere that isn't their 'natural habitat' i.e. if you had a bear then they would follow you around a forest, but wouldn't want to venture into a town.

    A similar idea that I had a while ago, but never bothered posting, was having hired swords, that you find in a town. For a fee of souls and a humanity (so they can resurrect themselves when they die), they'll follow you around and act like summons. The difference is they wouldn't disappear when you kill a boss, but if they die you'd lose them until you go back to hire them again. I feel this has the same problem as having pets.
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    Re: Pets/Summons

    Post by Back Lot Basher on Wed Sep 25, 2013 2:19 pm

    My knee-jerk response is that this sounds like something akin to a conjurer class of mage.  If the framework for magic was the same in DkS2 as DkS1, it would be simple...make it a spell that would have 1 cast between bonfires, and last a finite length of time.  You'd have a summon spell that might be saved for tough spots, or bosses, but not as an overpowered pet, maybe just something to draw a bit of aggro.

    Maybe I'm not understanding what the OP meant by this, in which case, ignore my post.
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    Re: Pets/Summons

    Post by TheMeInTeam on Mon Oct 07, 2013 3:59 pm

    raecor14 wrote:the problem with pets and summons, as im sure has been stated many times by now, is that they would become the metta. why make a build without one? why would you not have a wolf fight alongside you. it is a cool concept i agree but when it comes down to it dark souls is not a game that would work with these, imagine being ganked by 9 people when invading? 3 players with 2 summons each. you could never win.
    I think most of the hate on pets as a concept in the souls series is unfounded and a bit narrow-minded; pets wouldn't have to work in souls like they do other games.

    Rather than assuming a nice, easy experience using a pet with no downside, frame it from a souls perspective. Here are some ideas:

    - You can create a pet at level one (IE pet always starts SL 1), and you spend souls and equipment on it. However, if it dies it's *gone forever*, and so are all those souls and whatever equipment/rings you put on it. Nasty. Make it so that pets can invade, too big grin.

    - Make retaining a pet require considerable investment. For example, in dark souls 1 you could change "resistance" to "summoning". That stat buffs the utility of your summon, but requires the same 40 points to be worthwhile as most stat scaling builds. Suddenly a summon comes at a very real price. Possibly combine this with the above, such that anybody can buy a pet, but you need the points to outfit it into something that resembles a useful contribution.

    - Make it part of the INT or FAI builds, but gobble up tons of attunement, such that you can't actually use the other spells unless you're extremely dedicated to faith and attunement to the detriment of other stats or very overleveled.

    These are just some examples. Of the above, I like the first one the most. Considering how NPCs can be tricked into doing stupid things, it probably wouldn't be very viable in PvP, but could be used in amusing capacity and would be a great soul dump for those people staying at SL 100 or 120 and accruing millions of souls over time.


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