Stamina Regen

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    dalsio
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    Stamina Regen

    Post by dalsio on Sat Aug 17, 2013 3:51 pm

    Hey, so I was testing some numbers with stamina regen (for the lulz) and found some major discrepancies with the information on the wiki.

    First, was the idea that certain armors impeded stamina regeneration, and others did not. This I found entirely false, as under certain circumstances steel armor was heavily slowing it down, whereas other times full Black Iron armor does not.

    Second, was that with further testing, I found that this stamina impediment that people were seeing revolved entirely around equip load, specifically, the encumbrance level.

    There is no mention of this in the wiki, and I was wondering: is this common knowledge? If this is obvious then the wiki should be updated. I wanted to confer my findings with others before I made major revisions.

    I can provide large amounts of evidence on this, as well as pretty exact numbers, accurate to within 1-2 stamina units and I also wonder if that sort of information would be helpful to people.


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    Re: Stamina Regen

    Post by Serious_Much on Sat Aug 17, 2013 3:57 pm



    If its correct you should go for it. Have you checked if its based on total encumberence or just armour weight?


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    Re: Stamina Regen

    Post by dalsio on Sat Aug 17, 2013 5:49 pm

    Yes. Actually it's strange, it's mostly based on total encumbrance level, the exact same as your movement and roll speeds. However regen is also slightly based on equip load ratio itself.

    For instance, the difference between 49% equip load and 51% equip load is around 8 stamina regen per second (I have yet to do precise calculations). But there is also a difference between 26% and 49% equip load, however it's significantly smaller, something close to 2 stamina regen per second.

    To give you an idea of that, normal, right-hand punching with nothing equipped uses roughly 17 stamina and the cloranthy ring gives around 15.5 extra stamina regen per second.


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    Re: Stamina Regen

    Post by Serious_Much on Sat Aug 17, 2013 5:53 pm

    That is interesting stuff.

    Anyways, go add it to the wiki, it'll make a good addition. Amazing the things you can still discover even after 2 years of playing the game.

    Have a +1 from me, well deserved.


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    Re: Stamina Regen

    Post by Soul of Stray Demon on Sat Aug 17, 2013 5:55 pm

    Yeah, that seems quite amazing, can't believe no one would have notice this before. +2 if I could.

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    Re: Stamina Regen

    Post by Sentiel on Sat Aug 17, 2013 6:32 pm

    So you're telling me you guys never noticed that Equip Burden affects Stamina regen? Really? Never used heavy Str weapons? Well the difference is very small, so it doesn't really matter much. Most players chow on Green Blossoms anyway, so they don't have to concern themselves with stuff like this.

    Some armor does indeed affect Stamina Regen as well. Simple way to test this is to equip only weapons, measure Stamina regen and then equip only armor with the same weight the weapons had and compare the two Stamina regen times. As for Black Iron armor. I believe only it's legs affect Stamina recovery, but I'm not sure if this still applies. It's a pretty old info and might've been false too.

    I believe I've read some elaborate research on this sublject with all weapons and armor pieces and their different Stamina penalties. It's fairly old, so some things may have been changed in some of the patches, but it should be quite accurate should you happen to find it.

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    Re: Stamina Regen

    Post by Soul of Stray Demon on Sat Aug 17, 2013 6:36 pm

    We noticed it, the thing I'm surprised about is something like that being wrong on this wiki, I mean some of the people on here seem too crazed over dark souls to let that go unnoticed.

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    Re: Stamina Regen

    Post by Serious_Much on Sat Aug 17, 2013 6:36 pm

    Sentiel wrote:So you're telling me you guys never noticed that Equip Burden affects Stamina regen? Really? Never used heavy Str weapons? Well the difference is very small, so it doesn't really matter much. Most players chow on Green Blossoms anyway, so they don't have to concern themselves with stuff like this.

    Some armor does indeed affect Stamina Regen as well. Simple way to test this is to equip only weapons, measure Stamina regen and then equip only armor with the same weight the weapons had and compare the two Stamina regen times. As for Black Iron armor. I believe only it's legs affect Stamina recovery, but I'm not sure if this still applies. It's a pretty old info and might've been false too.

    I believe I've read some elaborate research on this sublject with all weapons and armor pieces and their different Stamina penalties. It's fairly old, so some things may have been changed in some of the patches, but it should be quite accurate should you happen to find it.
    Well I always presumed it was just heavier armour that caused the penalty, and seeing the difference between different weapons of similar class if probably negligible silly


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    Re: Stamina Regen

    Post by Sentiel on Sat Aug 17, 2013 6:41 pm

    To be fair. If I didn't try to make a Str Dragon build I'd never notice it myself. big grin

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    Re: Stamina Regen

    Post by dalsio on Sat Aug 17, 2013 9:23 pm

    Actually, the difference is quite significant (to me). Being above 50% equip load reduces your stamina regen by about as much as the cloranthy ring (and likely other stamina-increasing items) increases it. I'll have to check the exact numbers for each of the other items, but that still is an important difference when deciding whether to wear a havel's ring or the cloranthy ring. Suddenly, havel's can indirectly increase your stamina regen if you're not below 25% burden.

    This of course stacks with green blossoms and other stamina items, but as of yet I don't know how. It could be a simple matter of addition and subtraction, or it could instead stack multiplicatively, meaning that if you're at higher equip loads, chomping green blossoms has reduced effectiveness.

    As for certain armor having such effects, I'm not so sure about that. I've equipped various armors, some reported to reduce stamina-regen and some not, and from my preliminary findings there seems to be no major difference in stamina regen (or rather, all of the differences can be attributed to the change in equip load). Slight differences are another matter; I won't be able to confirm that until I do further testing and some more math (which of course I will do).

    I figured some people knew about it, but I guess it wasn't common knowledge. I'm glad the info can be useful. It's a testament to the complexity of the mechanics that years after the release, we're still learning new things. biggrin

    I noticed a decrease in stamina regen, but I too thought it was only on certain armors and didn't pay much attention to it. I was able to notice it only when I realized that bottoming out your stamina when sprinting prevents you from sprinting for exactly 3 seconds afterward every time, which made it much easier to gauge exactly how much stamina I was recovering over time (That's also how I calculate my results, as it is incredibly reliable. All I have to do is mark exactly where my stamina peaks before I start sprinting again). I was originally wanting to test exactly which armors reduced my stamina regen and roughly by how much, when I saw armor that absolutely shouldn't be doing it, were.

    I've added the information I have to the wiki, and I'll update it as I find more accurate numbers and if there is, in fact, armor that directly reduces stamina regen. Feel free to contradict my data and conclusions, as such is the way of experimentation! big grin


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    Re: Stamina Regen

    Post by dalsio on Thu Aug 22, 2013 5:39 am

    Whew! Okay, so after many many hours of research, experimentation, and number-crunching, I'm finally done. I've collected tons of data, and I have a few interesting finds.

    1. I was right about Encumbrance Level affecting stamina regeneration. At 25%, 50%, and 100% there are changes in stamina regeneration. However, it depends on the armor. Some armor, like Havel's or Smough's, impedes stamina regeneration at any encumbrance level to some degree. Steel does too, however it encumbers very slightly less than the heavier armor. Some armors don't reduce it at all until you are >50% encumbrance. Finally, most light armors don't affect stamina regeneration at any encumbrance level (except maybe >100%).

    2. I was wrong about the Encumbrance itself affecting regen. No amount of changing the weight between 0-25% or 25-50% made a difference.

    3. Regen buffs from all sources stack with each other additively, meaning if one increases stamina regen by 25%, and another does it by 25%, then using both will increase regen by 50%.

    4. Regen buffs will first stack with each other and combine into one number. Then, when they stack with encumbrance-based regen reduction, they stack multiplicatively. Meaning, that if all your buffs give you +50% regen and your armor gives you -50% regen, in total you'll get a +25% buff to stamina regen.

    5. Finally, most heavier armors, but also steel armor (although much much less than say iron armor) reduce stamina regeneration by a very small amount beyond what is reduced by the Encumbrance level alone. This reduction is applied per piece of such armor, regardless of which set it is from. I wasn't able to find the exact formula/pattern for it, but the amounts may very well be arbitrarily set by the developers.

    There are some exceptions, but this is mostly the way it seems to work. I'll add some of my findings and their relevant stats to the wiki tomorrow. However, there is a ton of other data I took and put into a readable format. It was mostly for my use, but I feel like I should put it on the wiki. How should I do it, and would anybody really want that?

    I welcome anyone to contest my numbers or my conclusions. I wasn't able to get as accurate results as I would like with the tools I have; all I've got to work with is a stamina bar and a timer. So especially if you have better methods than I, feel free to contradict my data. biggrin


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    Re: Stamina Regen

    Post by Serious_Much on Thu Aug 22, 2013 6:00 am

    I think those results are a very rational extension of the knowledge we had previously on stamina regen, I don't think it could be incorrect


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    Re: Stamina Regen

    Post by dalsio on Thu Aug 22, 2013 5:26 pm

    Thanks!

    I'll put what I've got on the wiki. I don't know how or if I can put the file here in the forums, but I'll try to find a place for it in the wiki.

    You can find the file directly here.


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    Re: Stamina Regen

    Post by dalsio on Thu Aug 22, 2013 6:23 pm

    Hold up, found some mistakes in my conclusions. I was assuming stuff from my data (which is never good to do). Doing more tests and I'll make an amendment to the file here in a sec.


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    Re: Stamina Regen

    Post by dalsio on Sun Aug 25, 2013 9:37 pm

    I've revised some of my information, and finally added everything to the wiki. There are some differences than what I thought previously, so if anyone is interested, I suggest you check it out on the stamina page.


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    Re: Stamina Regen

    Post by reim0027 on Sun Aug 25, 2013 11:07 pm

    Thanks for doing that. It'll be very helpful. Here's a +1 for ya.


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    Re: Stamina Regen

    Post by dalsio on Sun Aug 25, 2013 11:29 pm

    Thanks! How kind of you all.


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