Counter DWGR build: What would it be

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    Sneezer
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    Counter DWGR build: What would it be

    Post by Sneezer on Thu Aug 08, 2013 7:39 pm

    Ever since I started using less conventional builds that used slower weapons and etcetera I've grown to have a new dislike of the DWGR, so as protest, I want to make a build made to counter it.

    What would it use do you think? A spear for keeping them away from you and from roll BSing so much? A greatsword for stagger? Sorceries to hit them hard when you do catch them? A curved sword for stunlocking? I'd rather not have to use a DWGR myself for the sake of not making the build hypocritical.
    So what would do it? What's the build that ninja flippers would dread fighting most?

    Let's assume the opponent is using a katana as well.


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    Re: Counter DWGR build: What would it be

    Post by SadPanda on Thu Aug 08, 2013 7:54 pm

    Being cheap. WoGstabs, poisestabs, pretty much any "stab". Dark bead, pursuers, or the best, a spear.


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    Re: Counter DWGR build: What would it be

    Post by StiffNipples on Thu Aug 08, 2013 10:11 pm

    Stone Greatsword + TWoP + Pursuers + Dark Bead + Manus Catalyst + Crown of Ducks + Bellowing Ring.


    That should stop them silly


    In seriousness though, Stone Greatsword is pretty handy if you're rocking a heavy build (assuming str?). The second hit of the 1HR2 attack caught so many people off guard when I was RPing a Stone Knight it was silly, and the TWoP effect stops flippers pretty quick (or they flip off a cliff trying to avoid it haha).


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    Re: Counter DWGR build: What would it be

    Post by Forum Pirate on Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:29 pm

    Timing. Force them to roll, ie with a dead angle, and hit them with something fast (wog/spear/kat, ect) inbetween their rolls.


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    Re: Counter DWGR build: What would it be

    Post by RANT on Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:44 pm

    If you have a quality build with 27 Str,  two hand the stone gs.  That's what I do,  usually they don't last long.


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    Re: Counter DWGR build: What would it be

    Post by Saturday-Saint on Fri Aug 09, 2013 2:11 am

    DWGR is just "your rolls are better." There's nothing that especially counters it, except I guess TWoP?


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    Re: Counter DWGR build: What would it be

    Post by KrazykevS10 on Fri Aug 09, 2013 2:17 am

    Yeah,Stone Greatsword and plenty of repair powder would really be a downer for them.I'd chuck a Gold Tracer in there too,curved swords get a lot of lag hits when somebody rolls or flips backwards.


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    Re: Counter DWGR build: What would it be

    Post by Sentiel on Fri Aug 09, 2013 4:13 am

    Depends on their build. If it's the usual one shot Large Club DWGR, then it's best to use something like Pursuers to keep them off you and put them on defence, while you can try to hit them with you melee weapon as they exit their rolls. These guys will want to roll bs you most of the time, so use it against them. Bait them to do a roll bs and bs them as they exit their roll behind you, before they have a chance to turn around.

    If it's a caster build with DWGR, then spears are the best way to go. Their range won't let them cast and unless you have Mid Roll, or worse, you'll be able to catch up to them, so they can't get out of your spear's range.

    If it's the more common DWGR Dex builds with katana and such, then it's best to use a straight sword, like Broadsword, Claymore, or curwed swords to stagger them and perhaps even do some nice combo damage. Just be careful with anything slow, like Claymore to not get roll backstabbed. This can be applied to the rare no Poise DWGR guys. straight and curwed swords destroy these builds.

    At least that's what works for me. ^^

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    Re: Counter DWGR build: What would it be

    Post by Saturday-Saint on Fri Aug 09, 2013 5:46 am

    I don't think casting pursuers vs. a guy who can one-shot you with a BS is a good idea.


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    Re: Counter DWGR build: What would it be

    Post by Sentiel on Fri Aug 09, 2013 6:23 am

    You have to be clever about it of course. You can't just stand there and cast the thing mid fight. But before fight, or with distance and protected back, it's possible. Another possibility is to cast them while he's busy evading the previous ones. Works for me like a charm in Burg (mostly thanks to the walls though).

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    Re: Counter DWGR build: What would it be

    Post by robsthedon on Fri Aug 09, 2013 6:34 am

    Saturday-Saint wrote:DWGR is just "your rolls are better." There's nothing that especially counters it, except I guess TWoP?
    Yeah to that, DWGR is just about the best ring in the game, you just gotta hope they sacrificed a bit of poise and you can stun them. Curved swords spring to mind.


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    Re: Counter DWGR build: What would it be

    Post by Leet on Fri Aug 09, 2013 6:44 am

    I usually just get aggressive. Keep 'em on their toes. Eventually they will make a mistake, and you capitalize on it. But that's with any build really.

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    Re: Counter DWGR build: What would it be

    Post by shadowzninjaz on Fri Aug 09, 2013 7:30 am

    TooLeet wrote:I usually just get aggressive. Keep 'em on their toes. Eventually they will make a mistake, and you capitalize on it. But that's with any build really.
    Why dont u do that against me Shrug 

    anyways the best way i find to beat a dwgr users is to be patient against or using something that can turtle poke or setup a bs against them with like wog or poise bs,

    magic isnt that great against them unless ur super good with it, u gotta really know when to use your spell depending how well there spacing is and time dem correctly.


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    Re: Counter DWGR build: What would it be

    Post by VaDoom on Fri Aug 09, 2013 8:20 am

    As a former user of DWGR with light fast weapons, this is what was the most effective against me :
    - odd timings : I got smashed a couple times by unexpected timing with heavy slow weapons.
    - I remember the chaos blade had something special against me. I don't know if it was because of the attack speed of the blade and/or the recovery timing of DWGR, but I had some difficulties evading attacks while keeping my aggressivity.
    I never used DWGR with a spear as a main weapon, neither with a large club or anything "similar".
    Against DWGR, fast weapons and constant aggressivity works fine for me. I don't try to trade or I just might never hit once, but chaining hits just after their roll works.
    It's also possible to be very very patient and turtle till you get a good idea of the user habitudes and attack at the right time (odd timings comes to mind again). But against better players, it's very hard.


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    Re: Counter DWGR build: What would it be

    Post by TheMeInTeam on Fri Aug 09, 2013 10:41 am

    If I can stagger them I'll poise trade.  If not, I use spears or a piercing sword + shield.

    However, TWoP, tickstabs, and trading with things like great combustion are excellent also.  If they have <61 poise, you can go for trades with fast standard weapons (own katana, falchion, straight swords) and stagger them for huge damage if you time it correctly.  If they have <53, you can stagger-stab them with any hammer but have to have the timing to trade a hit and avoid the "hit and roll" where your client side hit doesn't count.

    Oddly, my zwei builds handle these guys really well too since they almost never have 76 poise, and unlocked swings + even the slightest understanding of timing variation will catch their flip BS.


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    Re: Counter DWGR build: What would it be

    Post by SlintEastwood on Sun Aug 18, 2013 10:56 am

    There is no real direct "counter" to it as it's just a better roll. It's a bit like asking what the counter to crystal +5 weapons are (though acid surge could be considered a real counter to crystal weapons, but I think everyone should understand my point).

    TWoP could be considered a counter, but it "counters" every roll.

    Havel's + FaP can work well as long as you do your best to avoid roll backstabs (and try not to roll too much yourself since kats and spears can easily punish fast rolls). Use your extra defense and poise to your advantage.

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