Weird Bug, World Tendency\snuggly

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    Weird Bug, World Tendencysnuggly

    Post by AnCapaillMor on Tue Aug 06, 2013 5:38 am

    Decided to load up Demons there the other day. Giving ducati a hand. So anyway i came uup again 2 bugs. I remember playing the crap out demons when it was out. Played it solidly for 2 years on the asian, us and EU versions and i never came up against these 2 bugs.

    1. Pure Whites didn't activate some events. Boletaria, killed phalanx, according to the menu the world was pure white. Checked the gate on 1-1 and it was closed. Ran up to the dragon resting place to verify and both were gone. I'm 95% certain they dissapear from the resting place when PWWT. Thought nothing of it but was annoyed, then i got the mines, i logged off a few times between the spider and flamelurker so that might've reset the WT. Anyways killed flamelurker and dragon god. again the menu showed PWWT and the rubble still blocked the DBS. Checked was scirvir was showing and he was. Again pretty sure he only shows up on PWWT. Funny thing was i got Makoto with no probs in 4-2.

    2. Sparkly screwed me. I dropped the gold mask, quit reloaded and there was nothing left. Did the same with the talisman of god and same again.

    Got it into my head that it might be conflicting with the other sacve i'd going. I loaded up and played the US version a bit the day before. Deleted the save, started up the EU ed. Killed the tower knight and low and behold the gate in 1-1 was open.

    Anyone get something similar ever? I know on the old phat PS3 i'd saves from the 3 versions on at the same time and had no such problems.


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    Re: Weird Bug, World Tendency\snuggly

    Post by PierreSBK71 on Tue Aug 06, 2013 10:00 am

    I can confirm what Capa said, as he was cooping with me the two times he got abruptly logged off.

    One thing we noticed thou, is that he seem to be kicked out of the game everytime we reached a fog gate.

    Very strange.

    Oh, and about the WT: I killed Phalanx, and both Dragons were there. THEN, this morning, I killed the red dragon from the tower in 1.2, got back, and BOTH dragons were gone. What's going on? Have I missed something?


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    Re: Weird Bug, World Tendency\snuggly

    Post by AnCapaillMor on Tue Aug 06, 2013 10:12 am

    PierreSBK71 wrote:Oh, and about the WT: I killed Phalanx, and both Dragons were there. THEN, this morning, I killed the red dragon from the tower in 1.2, got back, and BOTH dragons were gone. What's going on? Have I missed something?

    The blue dragon was away at the other dragons funeral. I was never 100% on it but killing the red dragon shifts the world tendency, so you could've gone PWWT by killing it.


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    Re: Weird Bug, World Tendency\snuggly

    Post by PierreSBK71 on Tue Aug 06, 2013 10:14 am

    AnCapaillMor wrote:
    PierreSBK71 wrote:Oh, and about the WT: I killed Phalanx, and both Dragons were there. THEN, this morning, I killed the red dragon from the tower in 1.2, got back, and BOTH dragons were gone. What's going on? Have I missed something?

    The blue dragon was away at the other dragons funeral. I was never 100% on it but killing the red dragon shifts the world tendency, so you could've gone PWWT by killing it.

     I'm a family destroyer.

    So now the gate right at the start of 1.1 SHOULD be open, aye?


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    Re: Weird Bug, World Tendency\snuggly

    Post by AnCapaillMor on Tue Aug 06, 2013 10:15 am

    Yep it should. Although if you're playing online, it might shift the WT.


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    Re: Weird Bug, World Tendency\snuggly

    Post by PierreSBK71 on Tue Aug 06, 2013 10:16 am

    What...why? Dammit. Oh ok. I guess I'll go take a look when I'm home. Anything nasty, treacherous, evil or whatever that I should know of?


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    Re: Weird Bug, World Tendency\snuggly

    Post by AnCapaillMor on Tue Aug 06, 2013 10:21 am

    If you want to play online and get the PWWT events, you're better off finishing off worlds in 1 go. When you go online, it takes the average of world tendencies and sets it to that. You might have finished up on PBWT but when you log back in it could be different.

    Don't worry anyways i got the PWWT weapons for world 4 and 5 for ya.


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    Re: Weird Bug, World Tendency\snuggly

    Post by PierreSBK71 on Tue Aug 06, 2013 10:24 am

    AnCapaillMor wrote:If you want to play online and get the PWWT events, you're better off finishing off worlds in 1 go. When you go online, it takes the average of world tendencies and sets it to that. You might have finished up on PBWT but when you log back in it could be different.

    Don't worry anyways i got the PWWT weapons for world 4 and 5 for ya.

     You're always my favorite Irish lad Bow


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    Re: Weird Bug, World Tendency\snuggly

    Post by Undiscovery on Wed Aug 07, 2013 2:46 pm

    AnCapaillMor wrote:
    1. Pure Whites didn't activate some events. Boletaria, killed phalanx, according to the menu the world was pure white. Checked the gate on 1-1 and it was closed. Ran up to the dragon resting place to verify and both were gone. I'm 95% certain they dissapear from the resting place when PWWT. Thought nothing of it but was annoyed, then i got the mines, i logged off a few times between the spider and flamelurker so that might've reset the WT. Anyways killed flamelurker and dragon god. again the menu showed PWWT and the rubble still blocked the DBS. Checked was scirvir was showing and he was. Again pretty sure he only shows up on PWWT. Funny thing was i got Makoto with no probs in 4-2.

    2. Sparkly screwed me. I dropped the gold mask, quit reloaded and there was nothing left. Did the same with the talisman of god and same again.

     I can confirm both of these bugs. They've happened to me on alot of play throughs this year. However I've noticed it only does these things when online. So it may be a server issue with properly coding the tendencies when trying to calculate average, the online is old and unmaintained afterall.


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    Re: Weird Bug, World Tendency\snuggly

    Post by AnCapaillMor on Wed Aug 07, 2013 6:56 pm

    Yeah its all over the place online. Happened to myself and ducati where all signs would dissapear but you still showed online, we'd to quit reconnect a few times to see each others signs.


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    Re: Weird Bug, World Tendency\snuggly

    Post by Reaperfan on Wed Aug 07, 2013 7:23 pm

    PierreSBK71 wrote:What...why? Dammit. Oh ok. I guess I'll go take a look when I'm home. Anything nasty, treacherous, evil or whatever that I should know of?

    When playing online, anytime you boot up the game and connect to the server, it detects the "online average world tendency." Basically, it checks everyone else you're connected to when you connect, gathers all of their world tendency data, and finds the average world tendency of that group of players. It then remembers your data from when you last loaded the game, and automatically moves you're world tendencies one step closer to the average it found.

    Since most players don't do Pure Black World Tendency challenge runs, this online average in almost all cases tends to be at White World Tendency, or one step short of Pure White World Tendency. So you can assume that every time you load up the game and play online, all your World Tendencies will change to be closer to White. Any Pure White World Tendencies you had will go down, and any black or neutral tendencies will go up. All from simply loading the game.

    You can avoid this by playing offline. Otherwise, if you are online you will need to do any World Tendency events in a single play session, as stopping in the middle will change your tendencies.

    TL;DR: When playing online, anytime you boot up the game your world tendencies automatically shift closer to WWT. Play offline when focusing on World Tendency events.


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    Re: Weird Bug, World Tendency\snuggly

    Post by PierreSBK71 on Thu Aug 08, 2013 3:52 am

    You see, WT is basically what I hate the most in this game.


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    Re: Weird Bug, World Tendency\snuggly

    Post by Undiscovery on Thu Aug 08, 2013 10:53 am

    PierreSBK71 wrote:You see, WT is basically what I hate the most in this game.
     Ah, really? I liked the idea of the Demons influence growing as you struggled, Well when they use to work right anyway. I also liked CT, reminded me of the common Karma mechanic in other great games but if only it had a more profound impact.


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    Re: Weird Bug, World Tendency\snuggly

    Post by Reaperfan on Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:48 pm

    Undiscovery wrote:
    PierreSBK71 wrote:You see, WT is basically what I hate the most in this game.
     Ah, really? I liked the idea of the Demons influence growing as you struggled, Well when they use to work right anyway. I also liked CT, reminded me of the common Karma mechanic in other great games but if only it had a more profound impact.
    It was also one of my favorite things. It just could have used an explanation of some sort. Alot of the reason people hate it is because nothing about it is ever mentioned in-game and it can mess with you when you don't know exactly how the system works. Since you have to pull off WT management perfectly to get the rewards it offers, it has points where if you go past you're no longer able to change it for that entire playthrough, most of the ways to alter it involve death or some kind of serious obstacle you wouldn't normally have to overcome, and the fact the "login average shift" will blindside you, means if you aren't sure of what you're doing you, sometimes literally, have no chance of getting the rewards it offers. And that is frustrating.

    With some kind of explanation beyond the one or two messages on "tutorial graveyard" in the nexus to help clarify some of the intricacies, at least players would feel like it's something they can understand instead of something they can't.


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    Re: Weird Bug, World Tendency\snuggly

    Post by Undiscovery on Thu Aug 08, 2013 1:36 pm

    Yeah I understand that, but From is notorious for it's lack of explaination which is what they mean they'll be adding to DkS2 when they say more accessible.

    But as a counter point, when you were ignorant to the Tendencies they're effect would seem random so it gave a different experience for each player their first playthrough, which is kind of cool, not necessarily a bad thing. Demons whole gimmick was "everytime you die the game gets harder." as well as taking the time to look at your menu, one could easily discern something was afoot and figure out they had an influence.


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    Re: Weird Bug, World Tendency\snuggly

    Post by Reaperfan on Thu Aug 08, 2013 1:53 pm

    Undiscovery wrote:Yeah I understand that, but From is notorious for it's lack of explaination which is what they mean they'll be adding to DkS2 when they say more accessible.

    But as a counter point, when you were ignorant to the Tendencies they're effect would seem random so it gave a different experience for each player their first playthrough, which is kind of cool, not necessarily a bad thing. Demons whole gimmick was "everytime you die the game gets harder." as well as taking the time to look at your menu, one could easily discern something was afoot and figure out they had an influence.
    I only slightly disagree, but mostly agree.

    I disagree because FROM is known for lack of explicit explanation, not just lack of explanation. The answers to most of your problems are there in the game. You just have to look for them as opposed to being told. With World Tendency, the frustration comes from the fact that the only way to observe it and make it something that wasn't just random, was through trial and error involving killing yourself, or passing points of no return (ex: killing bosses).

    Again, I loved World Tendency. But I understand the frustrations other might have with it, as even by FROM's standards it's incredibly cryptic and punishing if you fail at understanding it.


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    Re: Weird Bug, World Tendency\snuggly

    Post by Undiscovery on Thu Aug 08, 2013 2:03 pm

    Agreed, the element is really where it feels like my character, who is 'of the in-game world' knows just as much about the world as I do. Certain classes or backgrounds (I.e. DkS ethnicity/nationality?) should offer the player more explanation into those areas. Like if my character is from Vinheim, he should probably already be familiar with Griggs, Rickket and Logan, giving new dialogue. Can you dig it?


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