Gender Issue Discussion

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    TheMeInTeam
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    Re: Gender Issue Discussion

    Post by TheMeInTeam on Sat Aug 10, 2013 4:29 am

    claiming men can't control this and would sleep with trees)
    That technically wouldn't make one a furry right?  I had a friend promise to train and destroy me if I ever became a furry and I agreed, so I have to be careful.

    ...

    ...

    Not that I have a thing for trees or anything.

    It was to highlight that the *perception* that women don't like or think about sex comes from the ongoing societal encouragement to "keep your legs closed" - which is a real thing or we would not have the phraseology posted before, nor would we have the famous "headache" or "my gf is holding out" etc that are such common phrases.
    Always a frustrating dual force.  One the one hand, the societal encouragement is real, but at the same time men are frequently frustrated by it despite often still being party to being a source of it, and IMO not enough women or men rebel on this issue.

    I'm not a good source though since a lot of social constructs and widespread opinions run counter to logic and then I find them grating but can't really do anything about it.
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    Re: Gender Issue Discussion

    Post by FexDS on Sat Aug 10, 2013 4:36 am

    It indeed is a vicious circle and both genders need to help in changing it, as it will benefit us all big grin


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    Re: Gender Issue Discussion

    Post by Slarg232 on Sat Aug 10, 2013 11:51 pm

    The "I Have a Headache" excuse is so easy to get passed though....

    Just walk up to your woman (Or man, whomever is giving the excuse), hand her some advil (or preferred headache medicine), and then when she says "What's this for? I don't have a headache", you strike with surprise buttseks.


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    Re: Gender Issue Discussion

    Post by reim0027 on Sun Aug 11, 2013 10:18 pm

    Slarg232 wrote:The "I Have a Headache" excuse is so easy to get passed though....

    Just walk up to your woman (Or man, whomever is giving the excuse), hand her some advil (or preferred headache medicine), and then when she says "What's this for? I don't have a headache", you strike with surprise buttseks.
    Wut?


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    Re: Gender Issue Discussion

    Post by Leet on Sun Aug 11, 2013 10:40 pm

    I can't believe this stupid thread is still going on.

    If some of the things in here were said by normal posters (not mods/admins) this thread would have been locked a long time ago. I can't believe it made it past the first couple pages.


    Worst thread of the year, imo.

     

    Edit: And this coming from someone who couldn't care less about gender issues.
    It's 2013. Get with the times. I think gender issues haven't been an issue for quite some time now.

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    Re: Gender Issue Discussion

    Post by Tolvo on Sun Aug 11, 2013 11:51 pm

    Leet if you have absolutely nothing to contribute you probably shouldn't post in the thread.
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    Re: Gender Issue Discussion

    Post by Reaperfan on Mon Aug 12, 2013 12:09 am

    Tolvo wrote:Leet if you have absolutely nothing to contribute you probably shouldn't post in the thread.
    He did have something to contribute.  His opinion on gender issues.  And he made them quite clear that he believed gender issues on principle are an outdated and irrelevant topic of discussion, implying that he believes society to have already evolved to the point where everyone is basically equal and that the only times problems arise are when people try to actively make an issue about it.  If people would stop talking about it, then there would be no gender issues to begin with.

    Of course I realize I'm putting words into his mouth, but that's what I read his opinions to be from that post.  And even if it's not the popular opinion, it's still an opinion on the topic and he has his right to express it.

    EDIT:  I wrote "he" alot, but this being the internet I can't really be sure if TooLeet is actually a man.  If you're actually a woman, I apologize.


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    Re: Gender Issue Discussion

    Post by PlasticandRage on Mon Aug 12, 2013 12:21 am

    TooLeet wrote:I think gender issues haven't been an [/b]issue for quite some time now.
    Clearly that's not the case. All kinds of problematic occurrences have been brought up through the unfolding of this thread. As long as we exist in a society that attempts to dictate what a man should be and what a woman should be we'll continue to have these problems.


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    Re: Gender Issue Discussion

    Post by Tolvo on Mon Aug 12, 2013 12:27 am

    Just saying an opinion without a basis is adding nothing to the discussion Reaper.

    I don't come in here and just go, "Sexism is bad" as a post.  He didn't provide any discussion points, any articles to read through about a topic in relation, etc.  He added nothing to the conversation and basically came in then went, "This thread sucks, it's dumb, I believe X."  then nothing else.  It adds absolutely nothing to the thread.

     
    EDIT:  By the way a little comic that can illustrate an issue.  http://twitpic.com/d7l99g

    http://lby3.com/wir/

    This is a website dedicated to looking at the deaths of female characters in comics whom which are depowered in death, brushed aside, or are simply used to try and agitate male characters in the comic with their death.  What is pretty odd about the list is not the number of characters listed, but more so which characters are listed.  Some of them are considered to be the leading ladies of the comics.
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    Re: Gender Issue Discussion

    Post by Emergence on Mon Aug 12, 2013 12:47 am

    TooLeet wrote:I can't believe this stupid thread is still going on.

    If some of the things in here were said by normal posters (not mods/admins) this thread would have been locked a long time ago. I can't believe it made it past the first couple pages.


    Worst thread of the year, imo.

     

    Edit: And this coming from someone who couldn't care less about gender issues.
    It's 2013. Get with the times. I think gender issues haven't been an issue for quite some time now.
    Let's see if I can break the more salient points down here:

    Point #1: Admin/mod team is inept and applies a double standard to forum guidelines, and allow themselves the luxury of breaking rules as they see sit fit so long as they can say what they want at the expense of others.

    Point #2: Two months of registration now qualifies me to make a commentary on the past 8 months of threads, including threads that required the utmost care, consideration and sensitivity from the admin/mod team in order to maintain a peaceful, open environment.

    Point #3: Any strong emotions here are entirely fictitious because their crucible does not exist (despite several linked documented articles and journals stating otherwise).

    Thank you for sharing your opinion on the matter.




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    Re: Gender Issue Discussion

    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? on Mon Aug 12, 2013 12:55 am

    Damn, E.

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    Re: Gender Issue Discussion

    Post by Emergence on Mon Aug 12, 2013 1:07 am

    It's a good thread and an important thread and it's a conversation gamers and the gaming industry need to have.


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    Re: Gender Issue Discussion

    Post by KrazykevS10 on Mon Aug 12, 2013 1:15 am

    Sexism is never going to be gone completely.Women like being taken care of and some men will always view them as sex objects.

    Not so much as an opinion as a fact.I'm sure we still have people today who think the world is flat,you can't change everyone.


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    Re: Gender Issue Discussion

    Post by Tolvo on Mon Aug 12, 2013 1:17 am

    Kev I think you should rather say some like the way things are and they will reject change, rather than just saying "Women."  You might have meant to say some, like how you said "Some men."
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    Re: Gender Issue Discussion

    Post by GrinTwist on Mon Aug 12, 2013 2:02 am

    Might as well come out and say I'm for the equal treatment of everyone no matter what sex but I know that really doesn't do anything for convo as Tolvo said.

    So I'll drop a few links here for all of you interested in reading. Just to start some conversation.

    Link 1

    Link 2



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    Re: Gender Issue Discussion

    Post by KrazykevS10 on Mon Aug 12, 2013 2:03 am

    Hey,you understood me.I neither said nor meant all and don't presume to know the hearts and minds of every single person in a certain group.


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    Re: Gender Issue Discussion

    Post by Reaperfan on Mon Aug 12, 2013 2:06 am

    Tolvo wrote:Just saying an opinion without a basis is adding nothing to the discussion Reaper.

    I don't come in here and just go, "Sexism is bad" as a post.  He didn't provide any discussion points, any articles to read through about a topic in relation, etc.  He added nothing to the conversation and basically came in then went, "This thread sucks, it's dumb, I believe X."  then nothing else.  It adds absolutely nothing to the thread.
    So they aren't even allowed to voice their opinion?  Just because they aren't as researched on the issue as others then their perspective means nothing?


    Last edited by Reaperfan on Mon Aug 12, 2013 2:13 am; edited 1 time in total


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    Re: Gender Issue Discussion

    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? on Mon Aug 12, 2013 2:08 am

    GrinTwist wrote:Might as well come out and say I'm for the equal treatment of everyone no matter what sex but I know that really doesn't do anything for convo as Tolvo said.

    So I'll drop a few links here for all of you interested in reading. Just to start some conversation.

    Link 1

    Link 2

    Looks like you need to belong to that group in order to view that stuff, Grin.

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    Re: Gender Issue Discussion

    Post by GrinTwist on Mon Aug 12, 2013 2:11 am

    Ah well that sucks. I should have expected it since I was linking from college based articles, bah. They have some interesting things to read there too.


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    Re: Gender Issue Discussion

    Post by Tolvo on Mon Aug 12, 2013 2:19 am

    Reaper with this sort of subject it is better to be well read and have an actual discussion, otherwise it adds nothing.  Again if I made a thread about discussing an aspect of PvP and someone came in and just said "I believe x."  Nothing backing it up, no elaboration, it adds absolutely nothing to the discussion.  People can voice their opinions on a subject but also discuss a subject.  

    Especially with such a serious subject iti s likely better to not join in if you aren't knowledgeable about it unless you are just asking questions.  If he had come in and asked questions while saying, "I believe X, but I don't really know much about the subject, can you tell me more about the topic?"  Then there would be more to discuss and talk about, but he came in and went "I believe X" then said nothing more.

    EDIT:  This is the last I will say about his non-content, I don't wish to derail any further.
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    Re: Gender Issue Discussion

    Post by Reaperfan on Mon Aug 12, 2013 2:40 am

    Tolvo wrote:Reaper with this sort of subject it is better to be well read and have an actual discussion, otherwise it adds nothing.  Again if I made a thread about discussing an aspect of PvP and someone came in and just said "I believe x."  Nothing backing it up, no elaboration, it adds absolutely nothing to the discussion.  People can voice their opinions on a subject but also discuss a subject.  

    Especially with such a serious subject iti s likely better to not join in if you aren't knowledgeable about it unless you are just asking questions.  If he had come in and asked questions while saying, "I believe X, but I don't really know much about the subject, can you tell me more about the topic?"  Then there would be more to discuss and talk about, but he came in and went "I believe X" then said nothing more.

    EDIT:  This is the last I will say about his non-content, I don't wish to derail any further.
    That is an insultingly exclusionary attitude towards another person's opinions.

    If they don't initially back up their beliefs, why don't you ask them for more about their take? Why should everyone be forced to come in on your level or else be ousted from the discussion?

    They obviously don't share the same opinions as everyone else involved. Why do they need to ask you to reinforce your opinion further on a topic they already know they'll disagree on to be considered "contributing?" That doesn't further discussion, that just creates arguments, and is very likely the reason you don't see any honestly dissenting opinions in this thread.

    I tried and failed due to my own lack of communication skills, and the only other thing I've read besides TooLeet's post was someone who openly proclaimed they were only playing Devil's Advocate. A bunch of people sitting in a room agreeing with each other isn't discussion. For lack of a more sophisticated word, it's called a circlejerk.

    Though I see you're done here. I can respect the avoidance of a derailing, but I'm still offended at how off-handedly you rejected another person's perspective.


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    Re: Gender Issue Discussion

    Post by Sentiel on Mon Aug 12, 2013 3:12 am

    Awww damn! This what I was looking for.
    Requesting permission to quote a few parts of your post Reaper. It's sure gonna come in handy in the future (as it would've in the past...).

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    Re: Gender Issue Discussion

    Post by FexDS on Mon Aug 12, 2013 3:35 am

    Reaperfan wrote:That is an insultingly exclusionary attitude towards another person's opinions.
    No, it is discourteous of a person to barge into an ongoing reasoned debate to simply drop opinions as fact without backing or consideration for the ongoing discussions.


    Reaperfan wrote:If they don't initially back up their beliefs, why don't you ask them for more about their take?  Why should everyone be forced to come in on your level or else be ousted from the discussion?
    Firstly, as above, they should show the common courtesy of explaining their stance first. And secondly, the burden of proof is always on the one to present the conclusion. I believe in God =/= my God is fact. Thus my opinion adds nothing to the ongoing debate as to whether God is or is not and how or where or why. It simply adds nothing.


    Reaperfan wrote:They obviously don't share the same opinions as everyone else involved.  Why do they need to ask you to reinforce your opinion further on a topic they already know they'll disagree on to be considered "contributing?"  That doesn't further discussion, that just creates arguments, and is very likely the reason you don't see any honestly dissenting opinions in this thread.
    Nobody asked them to agree. Tolvo pointed out he was not contributing to the discussion because he simply said "well I think blah" without any backing, justification or reasoning. "Honestly dissenting opinions" are just opinions, the same as "honestly agreeable opinions". If you want to participate in a reasonable debate, you will present backing to those opinions or you will be told you aren't adding anything. This is rule n.1 of any proper debate process.


    Reaperfan wrote:I tried and failed due to my own lack of communication skills, and the only other thing I've read besides TooLeet's post was someone who openly proclaimed they were only playing Devil's Advocate.  A bunch of people sitting in a room agreeing with each other isn't discussion.  For lack of a more sophisticated word, it's called a circlejerk.
    I am very sorry that you cannot appreciate the subtleties and ongoing conversations here. Many people have brought forth different points that have been expressed. Tolvo was asking hey should we consider minimal stuff too? Others added the issues of Father discrimination. And maybe you are not aware but there are a lot of PMs going around commenting on the good overall tone of the community and the positive things coming out of this. To me, it feels like you feel the "there is no sexism" side isn't represented and the answer as to why is not that we don't want that opinion, it is that said opinion is not a fact, and it is an untenable position to hold in a debate.

    Reaperfan wrote:Though I see you're done here.  I can respect the avoidance of a derailing, but I'm still offended at how off-handedly you rejected another person's perspective.
    He did not dismiss the perspective, he simply stated that people who aren't willing to explain said perspective when they interject in a post are not adding to the conversation and equally detracting from it.

    I do not see why people insist on attempting to defend the indefensible.


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    Re: Gender Issue Discussion

    Post by Tolvo on Mon Aug 12, 2013 4:22 am

    http://imgur.com/a/0NQoS#w8f3D68

    So I found some images from a Cosmo magazine that a woman posted online which is quite offensive to both men and women.  Men feeling better for women making the choices for them.  Men being unable to survive without women.  Women being better because they are with a man, and such.

    Though I will say the one image comes off like an Emergence Avatar.
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    Re: Gender Issue Discussion

    Post by FexDS on Mon Aug 12, 2013 4:29 am

    Well that is frankly disgusting. I absolutely despise the very concept that women are to somehow mother their husbands, even if it makes for a funny joke at them on private situations (in my case, dude I look nothing like your mom, you must be broken!)

    "The male processes things differently, it's slower????!!!" What a bunch of unresearched and excuse pandering nonsense. Stuff like this belongs at a parody sketch that goes bankrupt because nobody gets the joke ugh.

    The image is totally gonna be the next Emergence avatar when he's done trimming those hedges! He really loves to cook happy


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