Souls Series Wiki Forums

Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

+26
SarahCassandra
Ahhotep1
dancash1808
Hart
KrazykevS10
Sentiel
Encore
Slarg232
reim0027
Animaaal
TheMeInTeam
bunnywink
AnCapaillMor
Forum Pirate
Reaperfan
Carphil
Tolvo
Saturday-Saint
WhatDoesThePendantDo?
nsane32
Emergence
densetsushun
PlasticandRage
FexDS
Serious_Much
skarekrow13
30 posters

    Gender Issue Discussion

    Tolvo
    Tolvo
    Town Crier
    Town Crier


    Posts : 13287
    Reputation : 542
    Join date : 2012-02-01
    Age : 31
    Location : The Forest, Illinois

    Gender Issue Discussion - Page 9 Empty Re: Gender Issue Discussion

    Post by Tolvo Wed Aug 07, 2013 10:41 am

    I really have to question the parents that buy these sorts of clothing.  Except the Shark Jaw Diner shirt, that's a nice shirt.  Ug, it sounds like fatherhood definitely isn't going to be as easy as I expected, which I expected it to be hard as hell.  Though regardless of gender, my child will get a Shark based shirt so they can learn early to never trust those evil killers.  

    That is very troubling, like the "Sperm Dumpster" shirts which I thought were just a family guy joke until I found out they actually were real and were targeted towards young teens.
    AnCapaillMor
    AnCapaillMor
    Insomniac
    Insomniac


    Posts : 1282
    Reputation : 102
    Join date : 2013-02-11
    Location : Shayol Ghul

    Gender Issue Discussion - Page 9 Empty Re: Gender Issue Discussion

    Post by AnCapaillMor Wed Aug 07, 2013 10:41 am

    It's freaky alright Fex, especially when i see my little grandnieces friends like that, but most kids want to act likes grown ups, and there's not much other examples on tv at the moment, too many reality TV shows, popstars prancing around in the near nip(god i feel like an old fuddy now) . What happened to little girls wanting to be nurses or princesses(i know slightly sexist but better that the above).
    Tolvo
    Tolvo
    Town Crier
    Town Crier


    Posts : 13287
    Reputation : 542
    Join date : 2012-02-01
    Age : 31
    Location : The Forest, Illinois

    Gender Issue Discussion - Page 9 Empty Re: Gender Issue Discussion

    Post by Tolvo Wed Aug 07, 2013 10:45 am

    Or maybe some should want to be warriors and knights.  Perhaps a Dark Souls for kids is in order.

    A Warrior:
    FexDS
    FexDS
    Webmaster
    Webmaster


    Posts : 1433
    Reputation : 311
    Join date : 2012-01-16

    Gender Issue Discussion - Page 9 Empty Re: Gender Issue Discussion

    Post by FexDS Wed Aug 07, 2013 10:45 am

    Yes I know that there's the media "pressure" on our kids of what women look like, or should look like, and in the end we come back to the sexualization of females and as such when children try to imitate the grown up female they end up sexualized themselves.

    It's hard for parents to walk that line before crippling your kid at a social level (but mom everyone else is doing it!!!!) and standing by what you think will be the better long term message. The sad part is that the easier, lazy option is to not think and let whatever be, and thus here we are. Oh Tolvo, do get ready, it's one hell of a ride! Oh and everyone will blame everything on you, because you are supposed to have superpowers to control absolutely everything your children access or people will blame your "negligence" for every videogame they sneaked a play into.
    Tolvo
    Tolvo
    Town Crier
    Town Crier


    Posts : 13287
    Reputation : 542
    Join date : 2012-02-01
    Age : 31
    Location : The Forest, Illinois

    Gender Issue Discussion - Page 9 Empty Re: Gender Issue Discussion

    Post by Tolvo Wed Aug 07, 2013 10:49 am

    My children will play Dark Souls and nothing but, rating be dammed.  

    My children will laugh in the face of other kids that are having difficulty playing their first person shooters, or spelling games!

    Yeah media gets pretty hard to censor in regards to children, you'd be surprised how early on teenagers will find ways to access pornography.  Well maybe not that surprised since Google is a thing.  

    My only hope is that if I do ever end up having children their mother will be a strong woman, like literally I'm quite a wimpy person.  That alone might influence them into seeing women in a better light, my mother being employed probably effected my view of women along with her being tall and somewhat muscular.
    AnCapaillMor
    AnCapaillMor
    Insomniac
    Insomniac


    Posts : 1282
    Reputation : 102
    Join date : 2013-02-11
    Location : Shayol Ghul

    Gender Issue Discussion - Page 9 Empty Re: Gender Issue Discussion

    Post by AnCapaillMor Wed Aug 07, 2013 11:00 am

    Tolvo wrote:My children will play Dark Souls and nothing but, rating be dammed.  

    Nah you'll only allow them play KOTOR and outcast and nothing else. Admit it you were checking Fex's site for mini Jedi Padawan robes too.

    Censorship is a tough one, if its censored or stopped, kids will want to do it more.
    FexDS
    FexDS
    Webmaster
    Webmaster


    Posts : 1433
    Reputation : 311
    Join date : 2012-01-16

    Gender Issue Discussion - Page 9 Empty Re: Gender Issue Discussion

    Post by FexDS Wed Aug 07, 2013 11:13 am

    Actually I've had good talks about this.

    I *love* Tolkien's works.I really really do. And I have given my kid The Hobbit (book) and he wants to watch The Lord of Rings movies. And I said no. And when he asked why I said "because it's not age appropriate" You will watch it, not understand a lot of the content, and get scared of the monsters and exposed to violent emotions you are not ready to process"

    And he said ok, and asked me how old he would need to be, and after didn't ask me anymore. Equally I caught him playing a shooter game he had grabbed off my PS+ that featured headshots and backstabs of people. I told him this is not age appropriate and turned it off. That evening he was telling me guns scared him... I'm like see I told you?

    So overtime he has gotten the message that I'm not simply denying him access but instead I'm doing what I think is best for his development. Sort of how he reminds me to give him a salad because "it's good for him" or how he doesn't steal the chocolates in the fridge. Dialogue works... problem is when the friends come around and none of them have any issues telling him how their moms let them eat candy 24/7 (no kidding I would have never known! You only got winded running from kitchen to room...)
    avatar
    Animaaal
    Compulsory Poster
    Compulsory Poster


    Posts : 3419
    Reputation : 175
    Join date : 2013-01-17

    Gender Issue Discussion - Page 9 Empty Re: Gender Issue Discussion

    Post by Animaaal Wed Aug 07, 2013 12:26 pm

    Nvm


    Last edited by Animaaal on Wed Aug 07, 2013 3:36 pm; edited 1 time in total
    Serious_Much
    Serious_Much
    Moderator Trainee
    Moderator Trainee


    Posts : 14641
    Reputation : 287
    Join date : 2012-01-17
    Age : 31
    Location : The Dark Side of the Moon

    Gender Issue Discussion - Page 9 Empty Re: Gender Issue Discussion

    Post by Serious_Much Wed Aug 07, 2013 1:36 pm

    2nd casualty of this thread- bad opinions laid bare in here
    bunnywink
    bunnywink
    Hollowed
    Hollowed


    Posts : 1643
    Reputation : 95
    Join date : 2012-06-09
    Location : Second star to the right and straight on 'til morning!

    Gender Issue Discussion - Page 9 Empty Re: Gender Issue Discussion

    Post by bunnywink Wed Aug 07, 2013 1:41 pm

    Animaaal wrote:If you guys are really saying that men do not have more problems controlling their sex drives, then look at **** statistics.

    This conversation is too politically correct to be correct imo.

    ***edit***

    *r a p e

    OKAY, *** THIS.

    This is SO WRONG on SO MANY LEVELS. I am actually pissed reading this so excuse my poor writing...

    1) MEN ARE VICTIMS OF SEXUAL ASSAULT TOO. The statistics you are looking are only for what has been REPORTED/DOCUMENTED. A lot of victims of sexual assault choose not to file a report because of a variety of reasons, but for men, it's because of fear of stigmatation, shame, and patriarchial cultural ******** norms. There is this false notion that men don't get r a p e d because it requires an erection (in some cases) and erection = arousal = consent. This is incorrect.

    2) Your dismissive attitude towards r a p e and how men can't control their sex drives is one of the reasons why victim blaming and r a p e culture exists.

    Sheesh. Look Skyward 
    Encore
    Encore
    Chosen Undead
    Chosen Undead


    Posts : 4317
    Reputation : 28
    Join date : 2013-05-12
    Age : 26
    Location : Bracing myself for the Winds of Change, being supported by the towering pillars of my friends.

    Gender Issue Discussion - Page 9 Empty Re: Gender Issue Discussion

    Post by Encore Wed Aug 07, 2013 1:57 pm

    I think all genders are equally awesome. Sure, there are some biological differences, but not anything that should interfere with an equal society. And if they do, we should adapt in such a way that the inpact is as little as possible.

    There is more men in power in society, and that is a problem that needs to be solved.
    Sentiel
    Sentiel
    Compulsory Poster
    Compulsory Poster


    Posts : 3181
    Reputation : 231
    Join date : 2012-11-26
    Age : 36
    Location : Mushroom Kingdom

    Gender Issue Discussion - Page 9 Empty Re: Gender Issue Discussion

    Post by Sentiel Wed Aug 07, 2013 6:06 pm

    It took me a lot of time and concentration to fully read and understand this thread. O_O
    My lady was interested why am I so focusing when reading this and decided to read it as well. big grin
    As such, I feel I have to post something, even though I'm afraid I can't contribute anything productive.

    @Plastic
    In elementary school, our class also got divided by gender. Girls learned stuff like cooking, sewing, gardening etc, while boys learned some basic carpentry and...well, I don't know what else. I was a part of the girls team even though I'm male. I asked my teachers to do this. They disagreed at first, but did it anyway. I suppose they hoped for me to change my mind once the results of this action arrive. Indeed they arrived and I became a laughingstock of the whole school. However I didn't quit the home economics.
    I simply thought cooking will be something that will be useful in every day life, while carpentry is not. You have to eat every single day, so why not learn how to make the meals enjoyable and tasty? As for the laughing and jokes, well, I took out my GameBoy and ignored them.

    I cook almost every day, although I still suck at it. big grin
    Carpentry? Never used it in my entire life. To be honest, I'd rather support the economics by hiring a company to do the carpentry for me than do it myself. That doesn't mean I don't visit restaurants with my lady. We try to go out for a lunch, or a dinner at least twice a week. We would go more often, but it's pretty expensive.

    In the end, I believe it was well worth ignoring what others thought and did based on some sort of social standard of that time.

    "You should do what you think is right, regardless of what others say." is a motto of sorts, that I use for my entire life. It did get me into a lot of tough spots, but I don't regret it for a single moment.



    While my entire family is strongly racist and sexist, I had the 'pleasure' of being the black sheep. I cared only about video games and as such soon found myself puzzled by these things, because they seemed unecesary. We're biologically and psychologically different, but we're also the same at the same time. I prefer to focus on the things people share and have in common, than on those they don't.
    Makes life much more simple. But perhaps that is what it means to be ignorant?

    As such, when I was a kid I was asked what race I hate the most by my parents. I replied: "The one I have to run."
    Editor's note: This part has been slightly changed due to translation issues, but carries on the initial thought of the author nonetheless.



    My parents divorced when I was around 6 and I was sent in the care of my late grandfather. As such, he passed on some of the older opinions and beliefs onto me. Thanks to these I tend to act like a gentleman, but also speak my mind out loud.

    Holding the door for a woman, paying for meal, letting elderly sit in public transport, etc. I admit it infuriates me when I get called out for such things, even getting called a sexist pig when I hold the door for someone, but I guess I'm just not clever enough to understand the reasoning of such people. I could understand getting angry if I slammed the door in someone's face though, but not this. I don't judge the person. They surely have their reasons for doings this as I have my own, or perhaps they just had a bad day. Happens to everyone.
    My lady actually got mad and started arguing with the person a few times.
    I always apologize to her for being such a troublemaker. cool 

    I was accused of belitting the other gender and thinking women are weak. Did I? Maybe I did. I don't know myself. I simply do these things, because I believe it's the right thing to do. I don't give them a second thought, nor the reasons behind them. If anything, I wanted to be nice.

    Being the gentleman is so unusual these days that most people think I'm flirting and it got me some initial distrust from my lady and her parents as well. She got used it to right away and was actually glad to meet a fellow such as I. But her parents thought I'm a regular skirtchaser. straight face 
    It took them two years to get used to the fact that I'm simply old fashioned and they accepted me this way.

    You may not think so after all my dirty jokes huh? silly
    Perhaps I have a crude sense of humour. Dance 



    My lady met with sexism herself. Since this is Dark Souls forum, I'll share only the video game related one. I'll skip the usuall MMORPG garbage we all know of. However one day, we went to a video game store together. I sent her ahead while I went unleash the kraken. When I arrived at the shop, she was standing outside pretty upset. The clerk thought that as a girl she knows nothing about games and told her to go away (literally) while playing WoW on his PC.

    As someone who worked in the same job as he did, it made me unusually mad. We talked to him about it, ridiculing his gaming knowledge in the process. I demanded an apology, which he refused, saying that normal girls know nothing about games, so he couldn't know. I still wonder how he got the job in the first place, but at least I know how he lost it. twisted 


    @Fex
    You seem to be very strict and defensive in this particular topic. Which is perfectly understandable. It's a hot discussion, that can turn ugly very easily after all. That said, please cut us some slack. happy
    nsane32
    nsane32
    Hollowed
    Hollowed


    Posts : 1886
    Reputation : 27
    Join date : 2012-01-18
    Age : 33
    Location : Lordran

    Gender Issue Discussion - Page 9 Empty Re: Gender Issue Discussion

    Post by nsane32 Wed Aug 07, 2013 6:29 pm

    well sadly alot of the old good morals that existed are mostly gone now and violence and hatred take their place and people are changing for the worse I remember a time when you didnt get insulted daily but thats long gone what we have left is this
    Slarg232
    Slarg232
    Insomniac
    Insomniac


    Posts : 1351
    Reputation : 51
    Join date : 2012-08-07
    Age : 32

    Gender Issue Discussion - Page 9 Empty Re: Gender Issue Discussion

    Post by Slarg232 Wed Aug 07, 2013 6:34 pm

    nsane32 wrote:well sadly alot of the old good morals that existed are mostly gone now and violence and hatred take their place and people are changing for the worse I remember a time when you didnt get insulted daily but thats long gone what we have left is this

     Don't be so dramatic; it's always been like this. We just have the technology to hear about it past our neighborhoods.
    AnCapaillMor
    AnCapaillMor
    Insomniac
    Insomniac


    Posts : 1282
    Reputation : 102
    Join date : 2013-02-11
    Location : Shayol Ghul

    Gender Issue Discussion - Page 9 Empty Re: Gender Issue Discussion

    Post by AnCapaillMor Wed Aug 07, 2013 6:54 pm

    Slarg232 wrote:
    nsane32 wrote:well sadly alot of the old good morals that existed are mostly gone now and violence and hatred take their place and people are changing for the worse I remember a time when you didnt get insulted daily but thats long gone what we have left is this

     Don't be so dramatic; it's always been like this. We just have the technology to hear about it past our neighborhoods.

     Well said sir, its always been around but we weren't aware of it. This back in the old days drives me nuts, back in the old days you know what happened in your area and on the news.
    bunnywink
    bunnywink
    Hollowed
    Hollowed


    Posts : 1643
    Reputation : 95
    Join date : 2012-06-09
    Location : Second star to the right and straight on 'til morning!

    Gender Issue Discussion - Page 9 Empty Re: Gender Issue Discussion

    Post by bunnywink Wed Aug 07, 2013 7:09 pm

    Sentinel, I think you're mixing up "old fashion" with kindness. I don't think holding doors open for others is sexist, unless you are discriminatory on who you choose to open doors for. I think if someone calls you sexist for such a simple gesture, they are being a bit too nitpicky.

    I, for one, am glad that we no longer live in a world of "old fashion morals". A lot of old fashion morals and values are so outdated, and I don't think being polite or kind has anything to do with it.
    Serious_Much
    Serious_Much
    Moderator Trainee
    Moderator Trainee


    Posts : 14641
    Reputation : 287
    Join date : 2012-01-17
    Age : 31
    Location : The Dark Side of the Moon

    Gender Issue Discussion - Page 9 Empty Re: Gender Issue Discussion

    Post by Serious_Much Wed Aug 07, 2013 7:45 pm

    To be fair I think it does enforce gender roles when the man insists on picking up the check, and it actually is sexist. Sadly though most girls I know don't see this. I find it funny that women will gladly ignore the sexism in things that go in their favor like getting things paid/bought for them for no reason, getting let in clubs just because they're female etc, but then if it's (even minor) sexism that is even slightly bad for them it's suddenly not ok.

    Obviously, this kind of thing applies to most other things as well, many people find something completely acceptable if they get the benefits, but once things don't go their way they get annoyed about it. I don't mind the fact this exists as I'll gladly play the gent, but what I really dislike is the fact many women refuse to admit chivalry is in itself and has at it's centre a sexist outlook that women have to be looked after just because of their gender.

    TLDR: Women shouldn't be able to say it's sexist when they get a lower paycheck because they're female and at the same time say its not sexist when they're getting treated to everything free by their boyfriend without reciprocating the favour. Either both are sexist or neither are. (obviously only one is actually wrong, though)


    Last edited by Serious_Much on Thu Aug 08, 2013 6:08 am; edited 1 time in total
    KrazykevS10
    KrazykevS10
    Hollowed
    Hollowed


    Posts : 1566
    Reputation : 36
    Join date : 2013-01-28
    Age : 31
    Location : Ireland

    Gender Issue Discussion - Page 9 Empty Re: Gender Issue Discussion

    Post by KrazykevS10 Wed Aug 07, 2013 7:51 pm

    What I don't get is the mentality that a man is supposed to be the one to ask a woman out first,why a man has to be the one to get down on one knee and propose. I think it'd be awesome if more women did both.
    Serious_Much
    Serious_Much
    Moderator Trainee
    Moderator Trainee


    Posts : 14641
    Reputation : 287
    Join date : 2012-01-17
    Age : 31
    Location : The Dark Side of the Moon

    Gender Issue Discussion - Page 9 Empty Re: Gender Issue Discussion

    Post by Serious_Much Wed Aug 07, 2013 8:02 pm

    KrazykevS10 wrote:What I don't get is the mentality that a man is supposed to be the one to ask a woman out first,why a man has to be the one to get down on one knee and propose. I think it'd be awesome if more women did both.

    and frankly a life saver for many guys silly
    Slarg232
    Slarg232
    Insomniac
    Insomniac


    Posts : 1351
    Reputation : 51
    Join date : 2012-08-07
    Age : 32

    Gender Issue Discussion - Page 9 Empty Re: Gender Issue Discussion

    Post by Slarg232 Wed Aug 07, 2013 8:05 pm

    KrazykevS10 wrote:What I don't get is the mentality that a man is supposed to be the one to ask a woman out first,why a man has to be the one to get down on one knee and propose. I think it'd be awesome if more women did both.

     Two thoughts on that:

    1) Men have, on average, a 32% chance for success when approaching a member of the opposite gender. Women however, have an 89% chance of success when approaching the men.

    2) My college had an even where the guy and gal freshmen dorms got together in the dark to ask eachother the important questions ("Does Size Matter?" "How can women tell if you have a girlfriend?" "What's your favorite position?"), one of the questions the gals asked was "How do I tell a guy I like him?" to which the men replied "Ask him out, it's that simple."

    Their response?

    "But what if he says no?", "We can't do that!", "That's the men's job!".

    To the first response, several men were heard muttering "Welcome to our world...."


    The kicker? When guys asked how to tell a girl they like they like them, they were told "Just ask her out!", and when a couple of guys said "What if she says no?", the reply was "You're a man, put on your pants and deal with it!"

    Double standards much?
    Serious_Much
    Serious_Much
    Moderator Trainee
    Moderator Trainee


    Posts : 14641
    Reputation : 287
    Join date : 2012-01-17
    Age : 31
    Location : The Dark Side of the Moon

    Gender Issue Discussion - Page 9 Empty Re: Gender Issue Discussion

    Post by Serious_Much Wed Aug 07, 2013 8:08 pm

    I've actually known girls to go out and have relationships with people they weren't that into just because the guy they actually wanted to be with didn't ask them

    ^^ That right there is just plain stupid

    I've been on the receiving end of one of those as well. Such a ridiculous situation to put yourself in.
    KrazykevS10
    KrazykevS10
    Hollowed
    Hollowed


    Posts : 1566
    Reputation : 36
    Join date : 2013-01-28
    Age : 31
    Location : Ireland

    Gender Issue Discussion - Page 9 Empty Re: Gender Issue Discussion

    Post by KrazykevS10 Wed Aug 07, 2013 8:19 pm

    I'm not saying guys don't do completely stupid things but girls do a lot of stuff like you guys just pointed out.Why not just be honest and straightforeward? Dunno about you but I'd at the very least be flattered if a girl just came out and said she liked me. It would save a lot of time doing the 'do they like me' dance.

    It's pretty scary just putting something like that out there,it shouldn't have to be a man's job.
    Slarg232
    Slarg232
    Insomniac
    Insomniac


    Posts : 1351
    Reputation : 51
    Join date : 2012-08-07
    Age : 32

    Gender Issue Discussion - Page 9 Empty Re: Gender Issue Discussion

    Post by Slarg232 Wed Aug 07, 2013 8:26 pm

    Gender Issue Discussion - Page 9 53671511

    Pretty much.
    Hart
    Hart
    Obsessed
    Obsessed


    Posts : 373
    Reputation : 19
    Join date : 2013-05-21
    Age : 31
    Location : NZ

    Gender Issue Discussion - Page 9 Empty Re: Gender Issue Discussion

    Post by Hart Wed Aug 07, 2013 8:46 pm

    While I can totally see why such acts (holding open the door, picking up the check etc.) can be interpreted as sexist, I don't generally see them as such.
    When I do something like that--generally speaking, show favor to a girl--it is totally because I want to behave 'kindly' towards that girl. To say it wasn't because she was female would be lying, but I don't think of this kind of thing as sexist.
    To me, bias turns to sexism when you begin USING THE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THE TWO GENDERS, TO UNFAIRLY DISADVANTAGE ONE IN FAVOR OF THE OTHER.
    As Serious has said, people don't acknowledge discrimination when they are the ones benefiting from it. But I disagree with him where he says that benefiting from gender discrimination is benefiting from sexism (apologies in advance if I misinterperated that). To me, a person simply can't benefit from sexism because sexism is innately detrimental.
    I know that my view is largely about arguing definitions and semantics, but really why is there a need to rationalize behavior like that in Sentiel's post. Sure, sometimes he treats women differently based on what they have between their legs, but it's not to their detriment so in my view its not sexism. On the other hand, when a shop clerk won't serve a customer cause she's a girl, that is clearly sexism 'towards women' as the poor lass is now unable to buy her game.

    Thats not to say that that kind of thing is OK at all times. For instance, if a women were to get off a speeding ticket by opening a few buttons on her shirt.
    Noone is hurt by this, but I would consider that a bad thing; firstly because it undermines the law, secondly (and more relevant to the topic) because it undermines the efforts of people actually working to achieve gender equality where it really matters.

    People seem to want topics like this to be black and white; that if you base your opinion of someone based on what that person is, you are a very very bad person. But where does that stop? Its not a clear cut issue, and is definately open to debate and interpretation, so when people get on their high horses about this sorta thing I kinda just write them off and move on.
    Serious_Much
    Serious_Much
    Moderator Trainee
    Moderator Trainee


    Posts : 14641
    Reputation : 287
    Join date : 2012-01-17
    Age : 31
    Location : The Dark Side of the Moon

    Gender Issue Discussion - Page 9 Empty Re: Gender Issue Discussion

    Post by Serious_Much Wed Aug 07, 2013 8:57 pm

    Well you just summed up opinions that I hate. Women getting denied promotions because there are men running against them is good for the man, doesn't mean it isn't sexist. Women get treated favourably by shop assistants while men hence get treated less well, is that not sexist?

    It's when there are two sides. Obviously In the chivalry argument, I'd have no issue if the girl did the same back, but she doesn't. It's at that point that it favours one sex over the other- which is the definition of sexism as you said yourself.

    As I said, I'd still pay for dinner (least till I knew her better) and treat her well, but I'll be damned if I don't know the whole facade is sexist gender pigeonholing.

    Sponsored content


    Gender Issue Discussion - Page 9 Empty Re: Gender Issue Discussion

    Post by Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Thu Mar 28, 2024 7:37 pm