Pulling a one shot in a fight club, whoops.

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    Derpwraith
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    Pulling a one shot in a fight club, whoops.

    Post by Derpwraith on Mon Aug 05, 2013 9:42 am


     
    SL125 fight club that was on Twitch a few days ago, Pursuers is just another part of the game, no hate. not me 


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    Re: Pulling a one shot in a fight club, whoops.

    Post by StiffNipples on Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:34 am

    Such a balanced and enriching addition to the game lol! 


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    Re: Pulling a one shot in a fight club, whoops.

    Post by robsthedon on Mon Aug 05, 2013 1:33 pm

    Derpwraith wrote:
     
    SL125 fight club that was on Twitch a few days ago, Pursuers is just another part of the game, no hate. not me 

    GG. What about the next fight?


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    Re: Pulling a one shot in a fight club, whoops.

    Post by Serious_Much on Mon Aug 05, 2013 1:38 pm

    robsthedon wrote:

    GG. What about the next fight?

    Lol exactly what I was thinking silly

    One shot with dark bead?


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    Re: Pulling a one shot in a fight club, whoops.

    Post by Leet on Mon Aug 05, 2013 2:19 pm

    Ridiculous.

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    Re: Pulling a one shot in a fight club, whoops.

    Post by RANT on Mon Aug 05, 2013 2:39 pm

    Eh,  can't even see anything,  that host picked a horrible angle.


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    Re: Pulling a one shot in a fight club, whoops.

    Post by Wilkinson3424 on Mon Aug 05, 2013 2:52 pm

    This is why I don't do fight clubs....


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    Re: Pulling a one shot in a fight club, whoops.

    Post by Soris Ice Goldwing on Mon Aug 05, 2013 5:54 pm

    There is a reason one shot kills are not allowed in FCs and this is a perfect example of that.


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    Re: Pulling a one shot in a fight club, whoops.

    Post by Saturday-Saint on Mon Aug 05, 2013 6:02 pm

    Soris Ice Goldwing wrote:There is a reason one shot kills are not allowed in FCs and this is a perfect example of that.

    Because FC'ers are scrubs?


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    Re: Pulling a one shot in a fight club, whoops.

    Post by Tolvo on Mon Aug 05, 2013 6:03 pm

    Soris what are you talking about One Shots have been allowed in most FC's on this forum.
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    Re: Pulling a one shot in a fight club, whoops.

    Post by Saturday-Saint on Mon Aug 05, 2013 6:08 pm

    One-shots should be banned and any time you one-shot somebody you lose by default.

    Result: strongest build is 8 vit sorcerer with dusk crown ring + calamity ring.


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    Re: Pulling a one shot in a fight club, whoops.

    Post by shadowzninjaz on Mon Aug 05, 2013 6:28 pm

    The thing about one shot builds is that most of the time they are easy to avoid, and barely anyone use them, also they are not a problem to deal with, most player should be able to beat 1hko builds we all know how to dodge spells or counter bs but hey we all make mistakes right?


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    Re: Pulling a one shot in a fight club, whoops.

    Post by Soris Ice Goldwing on Mon Aug 05, 2013 7:21 pm

    Tolvo wrote:Soris what are you talking about One Shots have been allowed in most FC's on this forum.
    I never thought 1 shots accounted as a form of skill. I guess I was wrong.


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    Re: Pulling a one shot in a fight club, whoops.

    Post by Tolvo on Mon Aug 05, 2013 8:32 pm

    I never said they did or didn't don't try to put words in my mouth.

    All I said was they were allowed.
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    Re: Pulling a one shot in a fight club, whoops.

    Post by Serious_Much on Mon Aug 05, 2013 8:41 pm

    Soris it's more people choose not to use them as one shots a) make for boring fights and b) sucks for the guy who had been waiting for half an hour to get a 10 second fight.


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    Re: Pulling a one shot in a fight club, whoops.

    Post by Bontee on Mon Aug 05, 2013 8:57 pm

    Tolvo wrote:I never said they did or didn't don't try to put words in my mouth.

    All I said was they were allowed.

     I think what he meant was that (speaking as someone who is kinda inexperienced with structured PVP) Fight Clubs are for fun and to show off skill and there is no fun (or skill being shown) in a case where it's just, you walk up, get hit once by a guy who just does one cast, dead. It's unfair and ruins the whole "fun" aspect for everyone else and doesn't allow for an accurate judge of skill either.

    In my opinion, at least...
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    Re: Pulling a one shot in a fight club, whoops.

    Post by Tolvo on Mon Aug 05, 2013 9:03 pm

    And people almost never brought in one shot builds and when they did usually people just killed them or didn't fight them if their cosplay was incapable of beating it.  

    The Fight Clubs have many issues in regards to people acting very poorly towards each other but we've never had an issue with one shot builds from what I've seen since they were almost never used.
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    Re: Pulling a one shot in a fight club, whoops.

    Post by Soris Ice Goldwing on Mon Aug 05, 2013 9:18 pm

    My issue was the fact that was even allowed at all despite if people decide not to use them. Just because you have not have an issue yet does not mean you will never have an issue. People can and have mixed up win for fun and will do anything to win and these are events not for that but you already know that.


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    Re: Pulling a one shot in a fight club, whoops.

    Post by Saturday-Saint on Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:49 pm

    Bontee wrote:I think what he meant was that (speaking as someone who is kinda inexperienced with structured PVP) Fight Clubs are for fun and to show off skill and there is no fun (or skill being shown) in a case where it's just, you walk up, get hit once by a guy who just does one cast, dead. It's unfair and ruins the whole "fun" aspect for everyone else and doesn't allow for an accurate judge of skill either.

    In my opinion, at least...

    There is no fun or skill being shown when everything threatening is banned.


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    Re: Pulling a one shot in a fight club, whoops.

    Post by Tolvo on Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:56 pm

    Yeah we were generally trying to have rules but only a few so it wasn't overboard and people would feel highly restricted.

    Though I will say I wasn't happy the one time i was cosplaying on a fat rolling toon with poor armor and a slow weapon and ended up going against a person using a DMB+3 Pike with 1800 health, 30 faith, while Ninja Flipping.  It sucks when it is impossible to win.
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    Re: Pulling a one shot in a fight club, whoops.

    Post by Bontee on Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:57 pm

    Fight Clubs should be for fun, not some hardcore win-or-nothing competition. Yes, they can be competitive, but it's not some hardcore tournament where it's all or nothing. It's called a fight "Club". Clubs are groups of people that gather as friends with a common purpose, usually with a designated meeting place, be it a cabin, fort or whatever and a drive to enjoy themselves with others. In this case, it's a tightly knit community of dark souls players meeting to have some duels for fun wherever is decided beforehand. The drive for enjoyment is the reason they are there in the first place. It kinda crushes the integrity of the entire concept of fighting for fun when you just one shot someone, especially on dark souls where (in my experience) you can sit for hours and still never find another red sign or be found yourself. Yes, it may be fun for the one that is running around instakilling everyone, but to everyone else it's just a waste of time. 

    Why is it allowed in the first place? Doesn't seem right to me...

    EDIT: "When everything threatening is banned."

    ...
    I didn't say ban anything threatening, or else there would be no PVP at all. Anything can be threatening in the hands of a skilled player. I just said one shot instakills should not be allowed. If that's all that threatens you, my hat's off to you sir.
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    Re: Pulling a one shot in a fight club, whoops.

    Post by StiffNipples on Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:27 am

    Agree completely Bontee, +1.

    The good thing with Fight Clubs is if you get one of those guys that's just going for the one hit kills you can simply not summon him again if his playstyle isn't in the spirit of the FC.


    I prefer the simple ruleset of No TWoP, Chain BS/BS Fishing, Pursuers, 2 buffs then fight.
    If you've got more than two buffs you run the risk of getting hit for that extra power you want.
    Sometimes you also have to say no spell spam (like people just spamming WotG, DB, BF trying to stunlock), but most people realise that they're there to have fun and a good fight, not just to win at any cost, so this isn't usually an issue.


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    Re: Pulling a one shot in a fight club, whoops.

    Post by Devokai on Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:29 am

    On the rare occasion I do participate in a fight club, I relish the opportunity to make such a build look foolish and the player feel bad for even having paid the money to own this game. On a side note If I fight a mage w/ logan's I'll usually let them go about their business and fight them as I normally would, with a healthy dose of reverse roll stabs. But the second I see the infamous damage stacking , crown, bellowing ring, TCC bastard casting pursuers they're getting insta gibbed before the duel starts w/ a hornet crystal rapier >_> w/e the rules of the fight club are even if the host decides to gank me. I hate damage stackers with a passion. :mask-father:
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    Re: Pulling a one shot in a fight club, whoops.

    Post by TheMeInTeam on Tue Aug 06, 2013 1:57 am

    The drive for enjoyment is the reason they are there in the first place. It kinda crushes the integrity of the entire concept of fighting for fun when you just one shot someone

    It's a matter of opinion and a slippery slope when you start talking about this though.  How is getting 1-shotted by dark bead materially different from the following:

    - Hit stun --> stagger backstab
    - Riposte with red tearstone ring
    - Any backstab with RTSR really
    - Hitstun combos for > 1k damage
    - Zwei stunlock --> 1500+ health taken away by 4 2h r1s (after all, this is a fight club for FUN amirite?  If beads are banned there better NOT be any glitching like toggle escapes!)
    - Black flame x16
    - Any buff build where getting hit 3-5 times = death, IE any stagger at all = you died even if you DO toggle glitch

    The fact of the matter is that fight club rules are *arbitrary* and literally do not and can not carry any logical justification whatsoever without a core set of criteria based upon the rules design.  However, when you set up such criteria to ban pursuers or dark bead, you'll ban a bunch of the above tactics and many more.  Maybe that's fun, and if there's a logically consistent rationale behind it, so be it.  That said, singling out someone for using dark magic if it isn't an explicit rules violation he agreed to ahead of time is absurd and carries no merit.

    You see some of the arbitrary cutoffs in this very thread.  They make no sense at all from a logical standpoint.  Either all things that can kill in 1-shot or a combo (with no glitches used to escape them) are banned or there isn't a logical justification for banning them. 

    If you start saying "this guy wasn't supporting the spirit of the FC" and essentially ban play that fits within the rules and is functionally comparable to other allowed tactics, the FC devolves into a finger pointing match where the focus is on restricting play, rather than playing.  I've seen that mindset trash madden leagues, and it can easily trash any semblence of a fun, competitive FC also.  All of a sudden the "host" of the FC becomes the word of law, and good luck getting him to apply rules consistently (read: he won't, because if he were it would never have come to that).

    Nothing crushes integrity like cheapening a legit victory because one doesn't like how it was achieved.  Compared to that, using 1-shot builds is nothing.  If anybody who doesn't explicitly break a pre-made rule that everyone agreed to before a FC starts stops getting summoned, you have an actual and objective violation of the integrity of the entire FC, unlike 1-shot builds.


    Last edited by TheMeInTeam on Tue Aug 06, 2013 2:04 am; edited 1 time in total


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    Re: Pulling a one shot in a fight club, whoops.

    Post by Tolvo on Tue Aug 06, 2013 2:03 am

    It is up to the host to decide who to summon and who not to summon.  Generally we have hosts that like different things, so some people just get summoned more in some worlds over the others.

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