Gesture Backstabbing

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    MosquitoPower
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    Re: Gesture Backstabbing

    Post by MosquitoPower on Sun Aug 04, 2013 2:51 pm

    Lot of pages of comments on this, but I did not see this thought (or maybe I missed it):


    Lets say I am looking for a PVP fight (human form or invading).

    No matter where you are, its going to take some waiting/searching.

    So eventually you find an opponent/s.

    If the opponent or myself were to run in a do a one hit kill backstab during a gesture...
    Then all we have accomplished is removing the opportunity to have a PVP fight.
    And we are back to waiting for a PVP fight.

    And that is why I do not do gesture backstabs.
    What I do tend to do is stand at a distance and copy what the other guy/lady does (especially 1vs1).
    If they start a gesture or do a rapid block I try and do one as well.
    If they rush me or cast a ranged spell, then I know the fight is on.
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    Re: Gesture Backstabbing

    Post by Leet on Sun Aug 04, 2013 4:50 pm

    Yeah, too much thought being put into this thread, imo.

    It's a pretty black and white topic. Bow with the caution of the possibility of being backstabbed.

    If you get backstabbed, get up like a big boy and smash their face. If you die, take out the anger from the previous match, on the current match. SMASH.

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    Re: Gesture Backstabbing

    Post by Walter_White on Mon Aug 05, 2013 11:46 am

    Ba22crow wrote:Not in my own world. Or as an invader. But If I am helping a friend through a planned meet or vice versa due to a charcter build making that particular area difficult, we are generally on mic and will plan it. Have the host stand in an open area facing the invader's direction, as the summon hides somewhere approximately near where the red will stop to bow or give a moment before attacking. And then rush for the backstab as soon as they stop. Have seen several reds die while standing and some while bowing. It's nothing personal, but you weren't invited into the world for one, and for two you didn't check the area before letting your guard down, three my friend is somewhat bad at the game and if he dies it could be a while before he gets another humanity, as such it's in my interests to keep things running smoothly and quickly so I can get by to my own characters. If the red spots it, well is time for a good brawl :]

    You could:
    1. drop your host some humanity
    2. fight the invader yourself to protect the host and not use him as bait for your trap

    Forum Pirate wrote:
    You have attacked my arguement, but I don't see where you actually post any counter points to refute it, or post any points in support of your own.

    I did not say the "only way" I implied the "pragmatic way"


    Bowing is indeed a potential threat. I bow all the time, just to get them to bow back, so I can buff while they bow and rush them before they get a chance. It works really well actually.

    You should first make sure what's a bow to you - a opportunity the oponent gave you, or a potential thread.

    99% of the guys who bow back wait for the backstab from behind the corner, they are glad to see, that you only buff your weapon....and 99% of the guys who bow back would've let you buff your weapon anyway. Yes a buff is a thread, a real thread, but most player who bows back accept one buff before a fight - nothing to talk about.

    (Using Pursuer to lure the standard dodge to BS it is smart and a real thread - bow to have time to buff your weapon is, well - not necessary and nothing very smart at all)


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    Re: Gesture Backstabbing

    Post by Leet on Mon Aug 05, 2013 1:58 pm

    I haven't had the problem of being backstabbed when i'm bowing in ages. Unless it's a spirit of vengeance, i use to no caution in bowing. It's a pretty much accepted thing now to bow, eat your grass (if you want) and buff your weapon (if you want). And there's no repercussions. 

    Bow, grass, buff, fight. Rinse and repeat.

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    Re: Gesture Backstabbing

    Post by Soul of Stray Demon on Mon Aug 05, 2013 3:40 pm

    I gesture backstab often, but only with my bare fist, It's so fun to do it.

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    Re: Gesture Backstabbing

    Post by Forum Pirate on Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:46 pm

    Walter_White wrote:
    Ba22crow wrote:Not in my own world. Or as an invader. But If I am helping a friend through a planned meet or vice versa due to a charcter build making that particular area difficult, we are generally on mic and will plan it. Have the host stand in an open area facing the invader's direction, as the summon hides somewhere approximately near where the red will stop to bow or give a moment before attacking. And then rush for the backstab as soon as they stop. Have seen several reds die while standing and some while bowing. It's nothing personal, but you weren't invited into the world for one, and for two you didn't check the area before letting your guard down, three my friend is somewhat bad at the game and if he dies it could be a while before he gets another humanity, as such it's in my interests to keep things running smoothly and quickly so I can get by to my own characters. If the red spots it, well is time for a good brawl :]

    You could:
    1. drop your host some humanity
    2. fight the invader yourself to protect the host and not use him as bait for your trap

    Forum Pirate wrote:
    You have attacked my arguement, but I don't see where you actually post any counter points to refute it, or post any points in support of your own.

    I did not say the "only way" I implied the "pragmatic way"


    Bowing is indeed a potential threat. I bow all the time, just to get them to bow back, so I can buff while they bow and rush them before they get a chance. It works really well actually.

    You should first make sure what's a bow to you - a opportunity the oponent gave you, or a potential thread.

    99% of the guys who bow back wait for the backstab from behind the corner, they are glad to see, that you only buff your weapon....and 99% of the guys who bow back would've let you buff your weapon anyway. Yes a buff is a thread, a real thread, but most player who bows back accept one buff before a fight - nothing to talk about.

    (Using Pursuer to lure the standard dodge to BS it is smart and a real thread - bow to have time to buff your weapon is, well - not necessary and nothing very smart at all)
    you're in over your head kid.

    1) its both, and always is. Ever heard of shrodingers cat? You cannot know when or if it is a threat so it can always be considered one (and considered not a threat as well, but the problem with not considering it a threat is that when it is a threat you are likely to be killed, where the same is not true the other way around.)

    If it is a threat, it is also an opportunity, for 1 or both players.

    2) you're pulling those % out of your ***

    3) But by taking the time to bow, the allow me to buff while they are in the animation. Unless they're running a quality build, my rushing them after (because they couldn't buff, because they were bowing) they are now at a huge disadvantage as an unbuffed hybrid against a buffed hybrid.


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    Re: Gesture Backstabbing

    Post by Walter_White on Tue Aug 06, 2013 7:32 am

    Forum Pirate wrote:Ever heard of shrodingers cat?

    wohoo - Sheldon in da house! cheers 

    i killed the cat with my cursed DBS - it's pancaked devil 

    ...sorry can't take that serious any more, do and think whatever pleases you about a bow...and where those % came from are even more wave 


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    Re: Gesture Backstabbing

    Post by Tolvo on Tue Aug 06, 2013 9:21 am

    That's actually not what Schrodinger's cat is about by the way.  It would more so be saying that you consider the person bowing to have both the intent to let you bow back and the intent to backstab you at the same time.  It is more about quantum mechanics rather than just "Who knows what is going to happen until it happens?"  It is the consideration that both aspects are true until the theory collapses into reality.

    But I feel it would be simply put, bow at a distance.  Simple as that, bow at a good distance unless you are doing a fight club.  Most people won't be able to react fast enough to hit you and especially won't backstab you.

    I should also say people aren't as widely accepting of buffs as you say, it varies from person to person.  I personally let others buff, but I know plenty that consider buffing giving oneself a distinct advantage and will strike a person buffing.  I actually don't mind personally when people interrupt my buff since it is me trying to get a clear advantage.
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    Re: Gesture Backstabbing

    Post by TheMeInTeam on Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:43 pm

    Sentiel wrote:
    Jansports wrote:Bows can't block Either. It's a serious problem.
    Kindly go and explain that to the turtling Silver Knight archer that just got me killed.

    Homing soul mass?

    Try HOMING SILVER KNIGHT ARROW.

    I want their version of the bow that can do big damage from out of sight range and will curve to hit people rolling eyes.  It would be fun to use it in the forest and shoot homing arrows at people from out of sight, infinitely.  I could like, stand on the ledge with the bearcats and shoot into the crest of artorias fog gate, and the arrows could curve to hit the host!  Pro mode!

    Anyway this thread boils down to "gesture at your own risk".

    As for buffs, I will *definitely* try to do as much damage to a person buffing as possible.  Sometimes, they buff before I'm close enough to accomplish any damage, and in those cases hats off to them using their build sensibly (I wouldn't mind them gesturing at that point, and if I'm far enough away to do it without hitting I might even try to bait a gesture simply to stall out the buff lol). 

    Even grass, widely accepted, is a buff and should be considered a legit offensive move that you can attack in any scenario.  It's just impractical though as it's roughly as easy to punish as a divine blessing.
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    Re: Gesture Backstabbing

    Post by Forum Pirate on Tue Aug 06, 2013 11:34 pm

    Tolvo wrote:That's actually not what Schrodinger's cat is about by the way.  It would more so be saying that you consider the person bowing to have both the intent to let you bow back and the intent to backstab you at the same time.  It is more about quantum mechanics rather than just "Who knows what is going to happen until it happens?"  It is the consideration that both aspects are true until the theory collapses into reality.

    But I feel it would be simply put, bow at a distance.  Simple as that, bow at a good distance unless you are doing a fight club.  Most people won't be able to react fast enough to hit you and especially won't backstab you.

    I should also say people aren't as widely accepting of buffs as you say, it varies from person to person.  I personally let others buff, but I know plenty that consider buffing giving oneself a distinct advantage and will strike a person buffing.  I actually don't mind personally when people interrupt my buff since it is me trying to get a clear advantage.

    which was my point. we can consider the bow both harmless and a threat (both alive and dead) untill someone "opens the box" (makes a move.)

    The difference is that pragmatism means one can be prepared for and able to circumvent the possibility of the bow being a threat by simply not bowing.


    @ walter You have not posted any facts or logic, merly dismissed my logic with statements like "i cannot take you seriously" which proves/provides evidence for absolutely nothing.

    i could almost be offended by your attempt at marginalising my input, but I'm going to assume instead that you didn't think your opinion through and are trying to save face.


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    Re: Gesture Backstabbing

    Post by Tolvo on Tue Aug 06, 2013 11:37 pm

    Ah okay Gotcha forum, and rather than simply "Who knows what will happen," you prepare for the one situation which could be considered true that effects you more.  Alright understood.

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    Re: Gesture Backstabbing

    Post by Animaaal on Tue Aug 06, 2013 11:40 pm

    @pirate


    So, do you backstab bowers...

    a)never
    b)sometimes
    c)always
    d)neither


    Sorry if you said so earlier. Also, elaborate if you don't mind, thnx Bow 
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    Re: Gesture Backstabbing

    Post by Forum Pirate on Wed Aug 07, 2013 12:36 am

    rarely. i backstab them if they're standing right in front of me and bowing, otherwise i buff or shoot them with a crossbow. (in an informal setting)

    I buff/shoot more often, because while it does not provide the same initial advantage, it is safer, there is little to no risk of a punishment because i misjudged my spacing. it also gives me a more noticable advantage should it turn into a gank type situation, because I deal far more damage with my dmb dgm than they do with whatever they're using.

    Usually, after the first time it happens, they don't bow to me untill the end of the fight.


    @tolvo. yes, thats what i ment. I have trouble articulating myself, as you've seen. where's reaper when you need him? bounce he and skare are pretty good "translators"


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