I think I may have spawned a couple vagrants for myself. Would love for others to try and replicate this.

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    skarekrow13
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    Re: I think I may have spawned a couple vagrants for myself. Would love for others to try and replicate this.

    Post by skarekrow13 on Mon Aug 19, 2013 4:00 pm

    Theoretical here of course, but that might make sense from a developer standpoint.  I know they wanted a hard to figure mechanic but unless there's a dupe glitch (or MM) to test with, I don't think there'd ever be consistent ability to drop boss souls.  Unless they predicted exploits to dupe items I don't think even From would be cruel enough to have Boss souls be a trigger (or more accurately a different trigger).  

    Is there any information on leaving vagrants alone?  I thought I read or heard something about them getting stronger over time.  If that's accurate then that could account for the idea of items gaining value.  However, this opens the door to further variables.  Especially if the vagrants drift if left alone.  The chances of spawning a drift, leading to spawning a vagrant for yourself to letting it alone and spawning a stronger vagrant which in turn leads to spawning the strongest vagrant back to your world seems unnecessarily convoluted.


    EDIT: Sorry, if I had more time to play I'd be running tests too but I have very limited windows these days.

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    Re: I think I may have spawned a couple vagrants for myself. Would love for others to try and replicate this.

    Post by Thor_Odinson on Mon Aug 19, 2013 6:17 pm

    Has anyone actually received a decent item from a vagrant? I have had a few myself and just gotten petty items such as rubbish or small amounts of souls. From my personal experience vagrants seem to do very little :(though the idea of vargrants is awesome, just falls short in delivering imo.
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    Re: I think I may have spawned a couple vagrants for myself. Would love for others to try and replicate this.

    Post by Green__Eagle on Tue Aug 20, 2013 8:54 am

    Hey, Retro, if you have a good idea of what item drops forms a particular drift item or vagrant have you experimented with different covenants? It would be interesting if a sunbro and darkwraith had different results. Extrapolating: Does soul level affect them? Does a higher soul level result in better stuff? Okay, I know: too many variables.

    FROM Software should release a book with all the secrets. Another +1 for your testing.


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    Re: I think I may have spawned a couple vagrants for myself. Would love for others to try and replicate this.

    Post by retro on Tue Aug 20, 2013 5:23 pm

    I've done testing at different levels and haven't noticed a difference yet, but I could try a level 1 Way of White vs a level 500+ Darkmoon and see if the Drift Item bags or resulting vagrants are any different.

    I don't hold too much stock in the speculation about vagrants getting more powerful over time though, because much like other early Vagrant speculation, you have to wonder how did someone come up with that? It's not something vouched for the by the devs in the manual, guide book, or early interviews, so I think it was a baseless guess on trying to explain why some vagrants have better drops or appear as red.

    The manual nor future press guidebook say anything about the items or vagrants 'improving', but an early article does have this to say (which supposedly has confirmation from the devs):
    Things like discarded items and lost Humanity transform into different forms and wander through other people's game worlds. If people leave them alone without picking them up, they keep moving, eventually transforming into very valuable items.
    http://www.ign.com/articles/2011/09/24/dark-souls-multiplayer-musings

    You could see how someone might assume this means that the longer something sits around, the more it'll transform into something better. However, I think this bit of info more closely matches what I'm observing: An item is dropped, it turns into a cheap / useless item in drift item bag form, but then after not getting picked up and moving around to other worlds, it eventually turns into a Vagrant with a better item inside. How long it actually takes to turn into the vagrant, or how long the drift item bag takes to find another world, doesn't seem to affect what the item turns into.

    Though another variable to consider is Vagrant HP. Perhaps they might have more HP based on some characteristic of the player who created them. Low level might mean lower HP, higher level might mean higher HP? The futurepress guidebook lists a range of HP values for both the Good and Evil Vagrant types. There's probably a reason the HP is listed as a range, because some variable probably allows it to change.

    But stuff like what their HP is and whether or not different Evil Vagrants are capable of doing different amounts of damage though are on the bottom of my priority list for the time being. happy

    Here's another Good White vagrant, with a slightly lesser soul item. I'd never seen this drop before, but I was able to predict it based on patterns I was seeing:


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    Re: I think I may have spawned a couple vagrants for myself. Would love for others to try and replicate this.

    Post by Soul of Stray Demon on Tue Aug 20, 2013 5:25 pm

    Why isn't there a way to look in the game code for this?

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    Re: I think I may have spawned a couple vagrants for myself. Would love for others to try and replicate this.

    Post by retro on Tue Aug 20, 2013 6:18 pm

    I'm not sure. From what I understand, without the source code it could be so heavily obfuscated that it'd be incredibly difficult to do so.

    Here's a table I made, a sort of "rough draft" for what a completed Good Vagrant table might look like:


    There are more items to test (weapons, armor, & rarer consumables not found in the mega mule), and of course I'll need to figure out how to create red vagrants. I also need to make sure it's always consistent like this, but so far it looks like it should be.

    This gives me a more organized way to plan future tests and find out what information needs to be solved. I should also be able to predict some of the Red Vagrant drops once I know how to spawn them. One of their known drops is a Gold Pine Resin for example, so of course those will probably correspond to the Rubbish drift item bags.


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    Re: I think I may have spawned a couple vagrants for myself. Would love for others to try and replicate this.

    Post by retro on Wed Aug 21, 2013 5:56 pm



    Here's another new drop documented, this time a Green titanite Shard that came from either dropped titanite Slabs or Blue titanite Slabs (not sure which, ran out of Slabs and then the Vagrant appeared part-way into my Blue Slab dropping session).

    So it was Slab --> titanite Shard drift bag --> Green titanite Shard vagrant, which fits the expected progression. I was guessing it would maybe be a Large titanite Shard instead, but it was still something that was only a little bit better than a regular titanite Shard.


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    Re: I think I may have spawned a couple vagrants for myself. Would love for others to try and replicate this.

    Post by retro on Thu Aug 22, 2013 7:21 pm

    Found another drift item source. Dropped Rare Ring of Sacrifice ---> Prism Stone.

    No luck yet on testing other rings, but it'll probably take a lot of testing to see if other rings work.

    I also got what I believe was +10 Armor ---> titanite Shard.

    I don't know which item spawned the Shard exactly, but thankfully it showed up pretty quickly so it's only a small list of potential items that created it: Standard Helm +10, Hard Leather Armor +10, Hard Leather Gauntlets +10, Hard Leather Boots +10,  Chain Helm +10, Chain Armor +10, Leather Gauntlets +10, Chain Leggings +10. Seeing how there's nothing special or unique about any of those, perhaps any max upgraded armor (or +10 specifically) works...

    I'll try some +5 and unique non-upgradable gear instead shortly.r


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    Re: I think I may have spawned a couple vagrants for myself. Would love for others to try and replicate this.

    Post by Uparkaam on Sat Aug 24, 2013 3:51 pm

    I did some testing with Eyes of Death. Dropping only one of them instead of two each time. I wanted to know how well that would work. It worked pretty well, I guess. However, the most interesting result of these tests was the fact that the two white vagrants I got both dropped a Dung Pie instead of a Charcoal Pine Resin. After the vagrants I wanted to see what the drift bags were containing. Just as I ran out of EoDs I got one bag that was a Rubbish.

    So does this mean that Dung Pie and Charcoal Pine Resin dropping vagrants both have Rubbish as the drifting item?

    Anyway, here's the test results if you're interested:
    long spoiler is long:
    Suicide 1:-
    Suicide 2:-
    Suicide 3:-
    Suicide 4:-
    Suicide 5:1 bag
    Suicide 6:-
    Suicide 7:1 bag
    Suicide 8:-
    Suicide 9:1 bag
    Suicide 10:-
    Suicide 11:1 bag
    Suicide 12:-
    Suicide 13:-
    Suicide 14:-
    Suicide 15:-
    Suicide 16:1 bag
    Suicide 17:1 bag
    Suicide 18:-
    Suicide 19:-
    Suicide 20:1 bag
    Suicide 21:-
    Suicide 22:1 bag
    Suicide 23:-
    Suicide 24:1 bag
    Suicide 25:-
    Suicide 26:1 bag
    Suicide 27:-
    Suicide 28:-
    Suicide 29:-
    Suicide 30:-
    Suicide 31:1 bag
    Suicide 32:1 bag
    Suicide 33:-
    Suicide 34:1 bag
    Suicide 35:-
    Suicide 36:1 bag
    Suicide 37:-
    Suicide 38:2 bags
    Suicide 39:-
    Suicide 40:1 bag
    Suicide 41:-
    Suicide 42:1 bag
    Suicide 43:-
    Suicide 44:Vagrant appeared. I harassed it with force and it ran away.
    I quit and loaded the game. Didn't see the vagrant but I saw a drift bag
    Suicide 45:1 bag
    Suicide 46:-
    Suicide 47:1 bag
    Suicide 48:1 bag
    Suicide 49:-
    Suicide 50:Round two with the little bugger. This time I killed it. Got a Dung Pie from it
    Suicide 51:-
    Suicide 52:-
    Suicide 53:-
    Suicide 54:-
    Suicide 55:-
    Suicide 56:-
    Suicide 57:-
    Suicide 58:-
    Suicide 59:-
    Suicide 60:-
    Suicide 61:-
    Suicide 62:-
    Suicide 63:-
    Suicide 64:-
    Suicide 65:-
    Suicide 66:-
    Suicide 67:-
    Suicide 68:2 bags
    Suicide 69:1 bag
    Suicide 70:-
    Suicide 71:-
    Suicide 72:-
    Suicide 73:1 bag
    Suicide 74:-
    Suicide 75:1 bag
    Suicide 76:-
    Suicide 77:1 bag
    Suicide 78:-
    Suicide 79:1 bag
    Suicide 80:-
    Suicide 81:-
    Suicide 82:1 bag
    Suicide 83:-
    Suicide 84:1 bag (I accidentally dropped an EoD here)
    Suicide 85:-
    Suicide 86:1 bag
    Suicide 87:1 bag
    Suicide 88:-
    Suicide 89:-
    Suicide 90:-
    Suicide 91:1 bag
    Suicide 92:-
    Suicide 93:1 bag
    Suicide 94:1 bag
    Suicide 95:-
    Suicide 96:-
    Suicide 97:-
    Suicide 98:-
    Suicide 99:1 bag
    Suicide 100:-
    Suicide 101:-
    Suicide 102:-
    Suicide 103:-
    Suicide 104:-
    Suicide 105:-
    Suicide 106:-
    Suicide 107:-
    Suicide 108:1 bag
    Suicide 109:-
    Suicide 110:-
    Suicide 111:-
    Suicide 112:-
    Suicide 113:-
    Suicide 114:-
    Suicide 115:-
    Suicide 116:2 bags
    Suicide 117:-
    Suicide 118:-
    Suicide 119:-
    Suicide 120:-
    Suicide 121:1 bag
    Suicide 122:1 bag
    Suicide 123:-
    Suicide 124:A vagrant. With a smelly present for me (Dung Pie again)
    Suicide 125:-
    Suicide 126:-
    Suicide 127:-
    Suicide 128:-
    Suicide 129:-
    Suicide 130:-
    Suicide 131:-
    Suicide 132:-
    Suicide 133:-
    Suicide 134:-
    Suicide 135:-
    Suicide 136:-
    Suicide 137:-
    Suicide 138:- (dropped my last EoD)
    Suicide 139:1 bag. Checked what it was and it was a Rubbish

    Also, I've yet to try dropping Pendants or Rubbish. Will try them at some point.


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    Re: I think I may have spawned a couple vagrants for myself. Would love for others to try and replicate this.

    Post by retro on Wed Aug 28, 2013 2:46 pm

    This is great! The one problem with my table is that the third column makes a bit of an assumption-- noticing that Vagrants appeared to always drop the same thing based on what was in the Drift Item bag, but I didn't actually test/ create all of those Vagrants.

    The good news is that 1) You managed to create Good Vagrants for yourself with a good success rate (proving I'm not crazy :p), and 2) the Drift Item bag still contains what was expected.

    So for now take the third column with a grain of salt. It could be that the Good Vagrants drop one of a couple or so random items based on what the drift item bag contained, or that it drops something specific to what the original item dropped was, despite seeming to 'lose' that identity when becoming a Drift Item bag.

    I'll try to replicate your test to see if I can get a dung pie, but for now I'm still working on expanding the first two columns of the table. You can find newer updates in post #34 still, I'm currently finding a bunch of rings that can create Prism Stone drift bags as well.


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    Re: I think I may have spawned a couple vagrants for myself. Would love for others to try and replicate this.

    Post by befowler on Thu Aug 29, 2013 2:18 pm

    Re vagrants getting stronger the longer they're around, I think there were reports (and possibly video?) of vagrants that actually appeared to be physically larger, not just with better drops.  Both the free range vagrants I encountered in normal play were regular size, so I have no firsthand knowledge of this.  The story I recall is someone encountering a giant evil one up between the two AL silver knight archers that blocked the entire "intersection" and one shot them when they tried to kill it.

    I also had a really weird drift bag experience yesterday.  I was derping around at the Township bonfire in between coop runs on my channeler trident character, and out of boredom started doing the dance move.  When I finished the 2nd or 3rd one, a drift bag containing rubbish appeared at my feet right beside the bonfire.  I assume it was purely coincidental, but strange nonetheless.  It actually appeared right at my feet such that when I stopped the dance I got an instant pickup prompt from it.


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    Re: I think I may have spawned a couple vagrants for myself. Would love for others to try and replicate this.

    Post by alchemydesign on Thu Nov 14, 2013 10:22 am

    The first time I seen a vagrant was a red one in Sunlight Altar as you already know. I also ran into a red vagrant in a rather odd place, in case this area isnt known, at the small tower in the Undead Burg with the crossbow hollow that overlooks the hollow soldiers right after the firebombers but before the Bull Demon boss tower. He was at the very top with the crossbow soldier.

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    Re: I think I may have spawned a couple vagrants for myself. Would love for others to try and replicate this.

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