Your opinion on exploits such as Dead angling or Lag abuse?

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    Should Exploits be in the game?

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    22% [22%] 
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    24% [24%] 
    [ 5 ]
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    [ 24 ]
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    twilightwarwolf
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    Re: Your opinion on exploits such as Dead angling or Lag abuse?

    Post by twilightwarwolf on Sun Jul 28, 2013 10:47 am

    For me exploits are just that. Can i stop them from being there? No so i deal with them and try to learn a few in case. I think that DA's should be in but like if i hit your side legitamitely i also feel they shold be parriable. Otherwise no because it makes no sense that i turn around and then attack while turning back to gain a hit.

    Toggle escape i never do nor do i see many use, against me mind you, so from what ive heard it sounds a bit ridiculus. I guess for now its all a matter of waiting and hoping.

    As for the stun lock i say the Golem axe, which i have used and stunlocked with. It may not on the first hit ,depending on the build, but a second or third hit and it does. And i agree with jans on if it has a E scaling or even a D that it makes no difference to it type wise if another scaling is clearly to dex or str.


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    Re: Your opinion on exploits such as Dead angling or Lag abuse?

    Post by Devokai on Sun Jul 28, 2013 12:17 pm

    I'll test the hand axe for you if I can get someone to help me. But I'm fairly certain just through use and it being used against me that it has the exact same values as curved swords. I'll test the r2s for you as well if I have the time.

    Edit: after testing with the help of Dezkpops I confirmed both the 2 handed r1 and r2's break points is 31, and the 1 hand r1 break point is 21 but the 1 hand r2 break point is 24. The more you know
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    Re: Your opinion on exploits such as Dead angling or Lag abuse?

    Post by Wilkinson3424 on Sun Jul 28, 2013 1:54 pm

    Butcher's Knife.

    Man-Serpent Greatsword.

    Greatlord Greatsword

    Stone Greatsword

    Demon Great Machete

    Dragon Greatsword

    Great axe

    Demon Great Axe

    Dragon King Great Axe

    Stone Great Axe.

    Do I need to continue? If you don't consider these massive weapons, strength weapons, then sir, You are one massive dude.

    And besides....

    This is Off Topic 


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    Re: Your opinion on exploits such as Dead angling or Lag abuse?

    Post by Jansports on Sun Jul 28, 2013 10:10 pm

    It is as I thought, 30 poise per 2h swing. Which would explain why I am able to stunlock the KnightHSWC combo after 2 hits and generally keep them there if my stamina holds out.

    Thank you quite much Devo
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    Re: Your opinion on exploits such as Dead angling or Lag abuse?

    Post by TheMeInTeam on Sun Jul 28, 2013 11:31 pm

    Small hammers stunlock until stamina runs out i.e. pickaxe, mace, small clubs and tail axe.

    No, they do not.  I use them a fair amount and people get out of them w/o toggle escapes.  A hitstun from them will guarantee an additional 2 hits or so without a toggle however.  Best practice is generally to get a hitstun, follow up with one more, then stagger-backstab.
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    Re: Your opinion on exploits such as Dead angling or Lag abuse?

    Post by sparkly-twinkly-lizard on Mon Jul 29, 2013 12:33 am

    certain hammers actually can't be escaped with out toggle but others can be escaped without toggle, so far the reinforced club and the giant black smith hammer seem to be the two infinite stun hammers, where as the mace can usually only get off 3 hits etc.


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    Re: Your opinion on exploits such as Dead angling or Lag abuse?

    Post by Saturday-Saint on Mon Jul 29, 2013 1:53 am

    Wilkinson3424 wrote:Strength is only bad because stun locks don't exist in this game. Think about it, if you could actually stun lock someone because they decided not to use poise, then why should they be able to Toggle escape? It isn't fair for those people who just don't want to flip around with a katana or R1 spam gold tracer, or poke.

    Exploits ruin PvP, even if they take skill and are accepted by the community.
    Many design decisions ruin PvP a zillion times more than dead angles or swap-escapes do.


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    Re: Your opinion on exploits such as Dead angling or Lag abuse?

    Post by hey its andres on Mon Jul 29, 2013 2:15 am

    I'l agree to that. It's just because pvp was not meant to be the focus of the game. Now, say what you will about this announcement, but I think that making the game more pvp oriented will only increase the replay value with little to no decrease in pve.


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    Re: Your opinion on exploits such as Dead angling or Lag abuse?

    Post by Jansports on Mon Jul 29, 2013 4:06 am

    I've had Vamos' hammer stunlock the exact same way GBH does.  Which raises an odd questions for me, there's a GBH speedrun route, why is there no speedrun route for Vamos' hammer, you can pick it up super early (on par with Gravelord and that has a speedrun too)

    This post is really off topic though.
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    Re: Your opinion on exploits such as Dead angling or Lag abuse?

    Post by Tolvo on Mon Jul 29, 2013 4:15 am

    Depends on the exploit, things like Dead Angles and Toggle Esapes I consider to be good accidents that improve the game overall.  Things like Tranquil Walk of Death though I feel should really be removed.  In general, if it hurts the game it should be patched and if it enhances the game it should be left in.
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    Re: Your opinion on exploits such as Dead angling or Lag abuse?

    Post by Pilgrim34 on Mon Jul 29, 2013 5:59 am

    Lag abuse is horrible, you have no chance against somebody lagswitching. It's not really a part of the game because it involves people fiddling with their internet connection to get a result in-game.

    In-game things such as dead angling are fine by me though.


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    Re: Your opinion on exploits such as Dead angling or Lag abuse?

    Post by Soul of Stray Demon on Mon Jul 29, 2013 11:45 am

    Especially considering how tranquil walk of death was an exploit on top of another exploit.

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    Re: Your opinion on exploits such as Dead angling or Lag abuse?

    Post by Wilkinson3424 on Mon Jul 29, 2013 3:25 pm

    The CMW adds damage to all attacks of a weapon, and the R2 of a Stone Greatsword is considered an attack by the game, so the actual damage is not an exploit, it's just taking advantage of an in-game feature with an exploit.

    Still not gud


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    Re: Your opinion on exploits such as Dead angling or Lag abuse?

    Post by Animaaal on Mon Jul 29, 2013 3:25 pm

    Devokai wrote:I'll test the hand axe for you if I can get someone to help me. But I'm fairly certain just through use and it being used against me that it has the exact same values as curved swords. I'll test the r2s for you as well if I have the time.

    Edit: after testing with the help of Dezkpops I confirmed both the 2 handed r1 and r2's break points is 31, and the 1 hand r1 break point is 21 but the 1 hand r2 break point is 24. The more you know

    cheers 

    Thank you, Bow 
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    Re: Your opinion on exploits such as Dead angling or Lag abuse?

    Post by TheMeInTeam on Mon Jul 29, 2013 3:34 pm

    certain hammers actually can't be escaped with out toggle but others can be escaped without toggle, so far the reinforced club and the giant black smith hammer seem to be the two infinite stun hammers, where as the mace can usually only get off 3 hits etc.


    I've smacked people with a reinforced club +15 at 27 str while 2handing it, and they got out without toggling after 3-4 hits.  Unless this stunlock is for 1h only (I doubt it, but maybe), then I'm not seeing an "infinite stunlock".  I know how a toggle-escape looks, too.  Some people toggled out much sooner, but I've rarely seen reinforced club get past 4 hits on virtually anybody.  Even with no visual evidence of a toggle, people roll out of it.  The % of people getting away when I simply mashed r1 on a stunned player was pretty enormous, so it's hard to conclude "infinite stunlock".  Granted, 4 hits on someone is very powerful and if you're buffed it will kill a lot of builds outright, but it's dangerous to assume the other guy isn't getting out unless he toggles.  Stagger-stab is a much stronger option as it will do more total damage and is harder to avoid even for togglers.

    Depends on the exploit, things like Dead Angles and Toggle Esapes I consider to be good accidents that improve the game overall.  Things like Tranquil Walk of Death though I feel should really be removed.  In general, if it hurts the game it should be patched and if it enhances the game it should be left in.


    Unfortunately, it's a matter of opinion.  Some consider toggle-escapes "good", but the stunlock was built into the game deliberately, and bypassing it drastically alters weapon balance.  Dead angling also alters weapon balance.

    You could argue that TWoD alters weapon balance more, IE makes even fewer things viable, however given the conditions for triggering it someone who used it constantly would still die to a fair amount of invasions once people became familiar with the threat.  An alternative name for it is "tumblebuff", and if someone tries to set that up with an opponent nearby he's going to get fished and stabbed into the ground in no time flat before he can both buff and activate the r2, or his opponent is simply going to run away and stall the buff.

    All of these are glitches that affect what you can and can't do.  TWoD bothers me more than the others, but the simple reality is that such is just an opinion.  If you accept one there is little logical sense in not accepting the others.  It's a bit ridiculous to start pointing fingers at people for using game-altering glitches when they themselves use game-altering glitches that are "less game altering to some degree".

    I could see a player who loves str stunlock weapons using TWoD on someone who toggle escapes him, and he would be 100% justified in doing so and every bit as within the game rules as the guy toggle escaping.  Same deal for dead angles.  Short of pre-agreed competitive rules between players who arrange a duel ahead of time, there is no justification for only frowning on some glitches and not others, when all of them truly affect balance.


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    Re: Your opinion on exploits such as Dead angling or Lag abuse?

    Post by Animaaal on Mon Jul 29, 2013 3:52 pm

    God this conversation gets ridiculous at times....Look Skyward 

    TAILGATING = illegal

    NOT PUTTING YOUR KIDS IN A BOOSTER SEAT = illegal

    RUNNING SOMEONE DOWN AND MURDERING THEM VIA VEHICULAR HOMICIDE = illegal

    ^Which one is worse?!?!?!

    The whole "everything is subjective" thing is just old man.  Its almost like some people have been brainwashed by their psychology and sociology 101 classes from college.

    By this standard, lagswitching has a counter...just power off, problem solved right?

    Its obvious which glitches are relatively acceptable and which ones are not. Just as an example, TWoD is NEVER acceptable...under ANY circumstances. This is not an opinion, it is fact.
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    Re: Your opinion on exploits such as Dead angling or Lag abuse?

    Post by Serious_Much on Mon Jul 29, 2013 3:58 pm

    You know the fact you're calling it by it's PC hacker dubbed name is probably not the best thing to call it if you're rejecting it. You're almost normalising and accepting it just by using the name they gave it.

    It's an instakill hack, no two ways about it. Everything about that description shows how wrong it is. If you start calling it TWoD it's making it sound slightly legitimate, when it's really not.


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    Re: Your opinion on exploits such as Dead angling or Lag abuse?

    Post by Animaaal on Mon Jul 29, 2013 4:02 pm

    It was called TWoD before the PC edition was released.  TWoD was around for awhile before the 1st patch when the Dragonhead Knife Spitters ran ramapant.
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    Re: Your opinion on exploits such as Dead angling or Lag abuse?

    Post by Serious_Much on Mon Jul 29, 2013 4:05 pm

    Of all the things you take from my post its that lol!

    But yeah I'm not familiar since I only came in after the first patch and I'm a PS3 player lol


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    Re: Your opinion on exploits such as Dead angling or Lag abuse?

    Post by Animaaal on Mon Jul 29, 2013 4:09 pm

    You're right....blushing 

    I shall now dub it, "The Untranquil Dashing Tactic of Getting Your Rocks Off"...

    TUDToGYRO for short. Bow
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    Re: Your opinion on exploits such as Dead angling or Lag abuse?

    Post by Forum Pirate on Mon Jul 29, 2013 4:11 pm

    Wilkinson3424 wrote:Butcher's Knife. nope, not quite fast enough. They can roll out if they're quick.

    Man-Serpent Greatsword.only in 1 hand, in which was all it ever did, and its poise break in 1 hand sucks.

    Greatlord Greatsword nope

    Stone Greatsword quality

    Demon Great Machete nope

    Dragon Greatsword nope

    Great axe nope

    Demon Great Axe nope

    Dragon King Great Axe nope

    Stone Great Axe. nope

    Do I need to continue? If you don't consider these massive weapons, strength weapons, then sir, You are one massive dude.

    And besides....

    This is Off Topic 


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    Re: Your opinion on exploits such as Dead angling or Lag abuse?

    Post by Serious_Much on Mon Jul 29, 2013 4:14 pm

    Animaaal wrote:You're right....blushing 

    I shall now dub it, "The Untranquil Dashing Tactic of Getting Your Rocks Off"...

    TUDToGYRO for short. Bow

     Thats got a nice ring to it silly

    But still.. Why not just call it hacked TWoP? That's what it is confused


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    Re: Your opinion on exploits such as Dead angling or Lag abuse?

    Post by Sentiel on Mon Jul 29, 2013 4:14 pm

    @Serious Animaaal
    I want you two to make a comedy duo. I would even pay to go to your show.

    @TheMeInTeam
    You, sir have just stolen both of my upvotes for this day.


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    Re: Your opinion on exploits such as Dead angling or Lag abuse?

    Post by Animaaal on Mon Jul 29, 2013 4:18 pm

    Lol...biggrin 

    Serious would be the headliner, he's funny all the time.

    Doesn't incorporating the word "hack" kinda do the same thing though?

    How about this:

    "The Walk of I Bought This With my Allownace and I'll Play the Game how I Want...WAAAAAAA!!!!"????

    TWoiBTWmAaIPtGhIWW for short Shrug 
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    Re: Your opinion on exploits such as Dead angling or Lag abuse?

    Post by Serious_Much on Mon Jul 29, 2013 4:22 pm

    Still lacking the word hack in there Prostration 

    I preferred The untranquil dashing tactic of getting your rocks off though winking


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