Why are the Blades of the Darkmoon attacking those in the book of the guilty?

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    Why are the Blades of the Darkmoon attacking those in the book of the guilty?

    Post by Derpwraith on Tue Jul 23, 2013 8:45 am

    In-game description:

    "Online play item.
    Check list of indicted players.


    The Goddess of Sin Velka oversees this list
    of the guilty, who have disrespected the Gods
    or their covenants, and shall one day face
    the wrath of the Blades of the Darkmoon."



    The book of the guilty's description clearly says that Velka, the Goddess of Sin, oversees this list. But why are those serving Gwyndolin rather than Velka attacking those whose names are printed in these very pages? Perhaps Velka was the former leader of this covenant (and most likely had a previous name for the covenant) and once served the other gods by punishing sinners. Or Gwyndolin is a proxy of Velka. This is some wild speculation I am coming up with, I want to hear yours.


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    Re: Why are the Blades of the Darkmoon attacking those in the book of the guilty?

    Post by Encore on Tue Jul 23, 2013 9:35 am

    I am thinking that perhaps he uses the book of guilty to make a psychological profile of sinners.

    A long time sinner will probably sin again, and will in turn hurt those he cares for, for example Gwynevere.

    Perhaps in his mind, it is like this: Evil will always do evil, and since the Book of Guilty records the deeds of evil being, he uses it to hunt down evil


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    Re: Why are the Blades of the Darkmoon attacking those in the book of the guilty?

    Post by Acarnatia on Tue Jul 23, 2013 10:28 am

    Originally, the Blades were going to be centered around Velka (I think; that may be just a theory that I'm remembering as a From statement) and was dropped due to an ensuing deadline. I think this was one of the several holes that was left from altering and dropping things to meet the schedule.


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    Re: Why are the Blades of the Darkmoon attacking those in the book of the guilty?

    Post by Encore on Tue Jul 23, 2013 10:45 am

    Probably, Acana, we'll just need to find reasonable way to justify it.


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    Re: Why are the Blades of the Darkmoon attacking those in the book of the guilty?

    Post by Soul of Stray Demon on Tue Jul 23, 2013 2:48 pm

    Teh Kitten´s Cat wrote:I am thinking that perhaps he uses the book of guilty to make a psychological profile of sinners.

    A long time sinner will probably sin again, and will in turn hurt those he cares for, for example Gwynevere.

    Perhaps in his mind, it is like this: Evil will always do evil, and since the Book of Guilty records the deeds of evil being, he uses it to hunt down evil

     Yeah, basically he wants to punish evil, and what's better to use then a book that tracks all evil.

    Or he may not even use it, and it's just that the people in the book also happen to be the people he wants to punish, so the book serves as a great way to tell who to go for.

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    Re: Why are the Blades of the Darkmoon attacking those in the book of the guilty?

    Post by Acarnatia on Tue Jul 23, 2013 5:15 pm

    I think Gwyndolin is more concerned with punishing 'heretics' (agents of the dark and those who sin against the gods) than with punishing evil. Remember that many supporters of the Dark view the Gods as evil tyrants.


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    Re: Why are the Blades of the Darkmoon attacking those in the book of the guilty?

    Post by Soul of Stray Demon on Thu Jul 25, 2013 2:22 pm

    Acarnatia wrote:I think Gwyndolin is more concerned with punishing 'heretics' (agents of the dark and those who sin against the gods) than with punishing evil. Remember that many supporters of the Dark view the Gods as evil tyrants.

     In that case, it wouldn't make much sense as to why you obtain sin for killing Priscilla then.

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    Re: Why are the Blades of the Darkmoon attacking those in the book of the guilty?

    Post by Acarnatia on Thu Jul 25, 2013 10:52 pm

    The player obtains sin for killing Priscilla? I did not know that.
    Some of the actions that get the player sin aren't necessarily (based on individual viwpoint) evil, though. Killing Petrus, a man 'drenched in sin' as stated by the gjy who would know; (Oswald) attacking Gwynevere or entering Gwyn's Tomb are not evil-they're heretical, ie, blasphemy against the gods. These do not necessarily have anything to do with evil, though.
    And then what of the apparent religious fanatics who follow the gods back in Astora, Thorolund and such? Recall the descriptions of world from the Undead Merchants and the Crestfallen Warrior; apparently, the church has enough history of persecuting 'heretics' that some find it completely normal for someone (Anastacia) to have had her tongue cut out for saying something they didn't like. (ie, 'heresy')
    Add in the doubt in the Gods that agents of the Dark bring up, and the morality of the Gods as a whole is brought into question. Paired with the mentions of a punitive church by


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    Re: Why are the Blades of the Darkmoon attacking those in the book of the guilty?

    Post by Acarnatia on Thu Jul 25, 2013 11:05 pm

    I apologize for this double-post, my ps3 has a small text limit.

    multiple npcs, and the church and the divinities they serve, the image of them begins to look quite a bit like the corrupt side of the prescence of the the Christian church in Midieval and Renaissance Europe. While they preach being the force for right and good, they hoard power and crush anyone who undermines their stranglehold on that power.
    While some of the sin-attaining actions in Dark Souls seem to quite obviously coincide with morality, I think it's not actually about morality. It's about protecting the interests of the gods.
    And in case anyone got that idea-I'm not saying that the Church was absolutely evil. I'm pointing out parallels between the actions taken by the extremely relgious in Dark Souls and in the Church's history.

    Ultimately, I think the Gods and church in Dark Souls are Lawful Evil and the Dark is Chaotic Evil. The Gods want to be tyrants over the humans, and the Darkwraiths are half-(or completely)mad, violent anarchis


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    Re: Why are the Blades of the Darkmoon attacking those in the book of the guilty?

    Post by xSomax on Thu Aug 29, 2013 11:01 pm

    Acarnatia wrote:
    While some of the sin-attaining actions in Dark Souls seem to quite obviously coincide with morality, I think it's not actually about morality. It's about protecting the interests of the gods.
    this is an interesting point, but the fact that you gain sin for killing priscilla directly goes against that. priscilla was supposedly locked away due to her power to kill pretty much anything, immortal or no. the gods feared this and she was supposedly locked away in ariamis due to this. the other theory is that she took refuge there, for whatever reason, but in all respects she would still be a threat to the gods. thus killing her does not make sense in that you gain sin for it. killing her would allay one of the gods fore-most fears in a permanent manner, but instead you gain sin for it. actually, now that i think about it this is a really good support for the seath/gwynevere(or velka, thats a theory too) parentage theory. she was locked away due to her power, but her parents still cared for her in some degree, so killing her is considered an affront to the gods..... holy ****, either i'm crazy or we're all genius'


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    Re: Why are the Blades of the Darkmoon attacking those in the book of the guilty?

    Post by theGentleman on Fri Aug 30, 2013 1:02 am

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but Gwyndolin is a transvestite with daddy issues and alludes to an incestuous fascination - no?

    When I was on my psych rotations - we were encouraged not to confirm any of the patients delusions.
    example: "I am Gwyndolin of the Dark Moon, I punish those that dare to defy the gods."
                   "I believe that you feel that way, Mr Dark Moon."

    Why does Gwyndolin do anything? Because he is insane.
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    Re: Why are the Blades of the Darkmoon attacking those in the book of the guilty?

    Post by Undiscovery on Tue Sep 03, 2013 2:32 pm

    In polytheism, incest is very common among gods, many of the godly spouses are siblings. Their society is not like humans so the norms are different. But yeah it's all relative, evil, insanity, chaos. What is normal for the spider is chaos for the fly. 

    Killing Priscilla isn't the sin, it's the act of assaulting. Whether Petrus is evil or not is irrelevant, you attacking him unprovoked is a sin, same as Priscilla, because she isn't hostile you're simply killing her on your own free will. All sin is equal in the eyes of the Gods.


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    Re: Why are the Blades of the Darkmoon attacking those in the book of the guilty?

    Post by Acarnatia on Wed Sep 04, 2013 10:39 am

    Apparently not, as killing Gwyndolin and such make the player completely un-pardonable. Most sins can be pardoned.


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    Re: Why are the Blades of the Darkmoon attacking those in the book of the guilty?

    Post by Undiscovery on Wed Sep 04, 2013 10:47 am

    True, indeed.


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    Re: Why are the Blades of the Darkmoon attacking those in the book of the guilty?

    Post by Zeta Prime on Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:20 pm

    who will pardon you if you killed "god"?


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    Re: Why are the Blades of the Darkmoon attacking those in the book of the guilty?

    Post by Thxodore on Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:33 pm

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    Re: Why are the Blades of the Darkmoon attacking those in the book of the guilty?

    Post by Soul of Stray Demon on Wed Sep 04, 2013 3:48 pm

    Poliwrath wrote:who will pardon you if you killed "god"?
    No one, you can pardon yourself..... I mean, you pretty much are god if you kill god.

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    Re: Why are the Blades of the Darkmoon attacking those in the book of the guilty?

    Post by xSomax on Wed Sep 04, 2013 10:31 pm

    my point on priscilla was based on the earlier assumption that "Sins" were basically only what was considered an affront in the eyes of god. such as attacking someone un-provoked, such as petrus. priscilla is a special case though and can't be thought about in the same way. her existence, in and of itself, is an affront to the gods. this is made plain as day. how and why she is in ariamis is debatable, but we know its either because gods put her there, or she went there as a means of escape. either way, the gods as a whole do not approve of her existence. this is made clear in the games dialogue and various item descriptions. but even though her existence is an affront to gods, killing her is tantamount to sinning. these 2 things cannot over-lap without a severe amount of hypocrisy. thus, it was my point that it is a sin due to her parentage, most likely gwynevere or velka. which it is, we can't be sure, but all in all its the most plausible situation, but thats been discussed elsewhere. 

    past this is complete conjecture, based around the above.

    whichever it is, they had priscilla put there (or had her run there) to stop the rest of the gods from killing her for no real reason. thus, the gods had no reason to kill her anymore, and the opinion of the gods became neutral. if she isn't a threat, they don't care. due to this, there are more gods that care for priscilla than those that wish to kill her, tipping the scales so that killing priscilla is an affront to the gods. 

    and this is just total conjecture on my part, with very little basis. 

    its possible gwyndolin felt a type of kinship for priscilla. i know this sounds like :dung: , but hear me out. first, they are both related to the gods somehow. for gwyndolin, its that his parent is gwyn. for priscilla, gwynevere or velka. whatever the case, they aren't strangers to eachother. especially if gwynevere is the case. this would give gwyndolin even more reason to like priscilla. second, is that they are both misfits. gwyndolin has his tentacles, female-proportions, and the incorrect type of magic for his gender. for priscilla, she is half dragon, and the only one to boot. they are both somewhat unique existences. this would have a high chance of sparking some kinship. at the very least, they wouldn't straight hate each other. the last is that the painting for ariamis is so close to gwyndolin. right above him, in fact. this way, he could stop anyone he wanted from getting in, if need be. the only reason he let the CU in is because he probably didn't think you were a threat. the painted world is not kind, contrary to priscilla's beliefs. or at the very least, not kind to us. 

    anyways, this is totally Off Topic. who would pardon you is oswald. gwyndolin doesn't judge, he meets out punishment. sin, as we all know, is velka's domain. and as far as we know, velka could be anything from incorporeal to the crow that ferrys you to and from asylum. theres way too many theory's on that one. how does one kill something they cannot possibly understand?


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