Red invader ?..

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    Red invader ?..

    Post by Odinbear on Sun Jul 21, 2013 12:34 am

    I apologize if this sounds stoopid or has been covered. Already sick of the googling.

    Can red invaders be hurt by all NPC's?
    Corvo'svideo shows the butchers wife in the depths laying waste to a red.


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    Re: Red invader ?..

    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? on Sun Jul 21, 2013 12:36 am

    True NPCs can't even interact with reds, when a red invades and an NPC is in the area all they can see are their ghosts. As for the Butchers, Undead Rapport?

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    Re: Red invader ?..

    Post by Reaperfan on Sun Jul 21, 2013 12:40 am

    They can be hurt by any non-NPC enemy.  I assume by "butcher's wife" you mean Maneater Mildred (who isn't a wife, she's actually one of the butchers themselves winking), who is not an NPC in that instance, but a Black Phantom.  When in a host's world (both while invading and co-oping) all NPCs such as merchants and blacksmiths will be greyed-out and you will be unable to attack, be attacked by, or interact with them if you are not the host.

    So no, invaders cannot be hurt by NPCs.  They can be hurt by anything else including players, enemies, the environment, or other invaders.


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    Re: Red invader ?..

    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? on Sun Jul 21, 2013 12:43 am

    I think he means the sackheads and not Mildred, because he did set the scene in the Depths.

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    Re: Red invader ?..

    Post by Odinbear on Sun Jul 21, 2013 12:44 am

    Maneater Mildred lol. Yes.  It just struck me odd watching the red get Ko'd by MM.  Never had that happen to my red arse yet.


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    Re: Red invader ?..

    Post by Odinbear on Sun Jul 21, 2013 12:45 am

    The butcher in the depths that falls from the rafters


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    Re: Red invader ?..

    Post by Odinbear on Sun Jul 21, 2013 12:48 am

    I co-op a lot and watch others attack NPC' s that all I see are wisps. Unsure if they know I can't help.  In fact somebody watched me accidentally whack the giant blacksmith in A & L the other day, we ran.  Absolved sins, all good.  First time I did that, I thought I HAD to kill him


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    Re: Red invader ?..

    Post by BrotherBob on Sun Jul 21, 2013 12:48 am

    I'm going to risk saying that any enemy that can be affected by Undead Rapport can hurt both other enemies and invaders. I know the Hollows in the Undead Burg will attack invaders because I've done so as a phantom for amusement, on occasion. The video with the Corvo cosplay, linked on the forums by FPSsnake, confirms the effect for the Butchers. I saw another video earlier today from another forum thread confirming that a Hollow Thief (and its BP version) also can attack invaders when under Undead Rapport's effects. In sum, I think it's rather safe to say that any enemy (or its BP version) under the effect of a host's/phantom's Undead Rapport will attack invaders and other enemies.

    Aside from the use of Undead Rapport, I have also been killed (rather embarassingly, as an invader) by the Darkroot Garden Hydra.


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    Re: Red invader ?..

    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? on Sun Jul 21, 2013 12:48 am

    Now I'm confused, did whatever happened happen in the Depths or in Blighttown? Or are you detailing two different incidents, one from the video and one from your experiences?

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    BrotherBob wrote:Aside from the use of Undead Rapport, I have also been killed (rather embarassingly, as an invader) by the Darkroot Garden Hydra.

    Hellkite Dragon for me. I was strutting shamelessly along, brimming with overconfidence until I learned that a bridge-full of fire can kill even my invading arse.

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    Re: Red invader ?..

    Post by Odinbear on Sun Jul 21, 2013 12:54 am

    WhatDoesThePendantDo? wrote:Now I'm confused, did whatever happened happen in the Depths or in Blighttown? Or are you detailing two different incidents, one from the video and one from your experiences?

    EDIT:
    BrotherBob wrote:Aside from the use of Undead Rapport, I have also been killed (rather embarassingly, as an invader) by the Darkroot Garden Hydra.

    Hellkite Dragon for me. I was strutting shamelessly along, brimming with overconfidence until I learned that a bridge-full of fire can kill even my invading arse.
    Been killed by the fire on the bridge too. Forgot about that.


    I meant the depths. The butcher in the depths.  Not blighttown..   You said man eater Mildred and I agreed without thinking.  I summon MM for qualaag everytime.


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    Re: Red invader ?..

    Post by Reaperfan on Sun Jul 21, 2013 1:02 am

    On that note, the Butchers aren't NPCs either. They're enemies. Mind you they're special enemies similar to mimics, but still just enemies. The greying out of NPCs was implemented as an anti-griefing mechanic so you wouldn't get people who invade or co-op just to kill a blacksmith or important merchant. If an invader kills a butcher it has no long-lasting effect on your gameplay (except maybe making you miss out on the Sack) so there's no reason to grey them out.


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    Re: Red invader ?..

    Post by BrotherBob on Sun Jul 21, 2013 1:14 am

    Oh, right, the dragon... I once invaded a guy about 4 times one evening, and every time I spawned in, I died immediately to the dragon's fire. That is one nice anti-invader tactic. I would of messaged him "Kudos!", but I don't know how to say that in Japanese. confused 

    People should really use Undead Rapport more. It's just so funny. It's upsetting, though, when the host doesn't know what's going on and just kills everything. I often SunBro and, when we reach just before where the Black Knight is, I try to get a Sword Hollow Soldier to fight a Spear Hollow Soldier. Always fun! cheers 


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    :pharis: They slaughtered our men, our brothers, our sons... The dead cry out to us for justice. On their Souls, I swear to you: the gankers who took them from us, who have brought us such pain and sorrow... we will find them. They will come to the Forest. We will not rest until their blood flows into this very ground.
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    Re: Red invader ?..

    Post by Odinbear on Sun Jul 21, 2013 1:22 am

    Undead rapport, never used it.   Hmmmm.  New toy?


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    Re: Red invader ?..

    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? on Sun Jul 21, 2013 1:25 am

    Odinbear wrote:Undead rapport, never used it.   Hmmmm.  New toy?

    For fun? Yeah. For practicality? Not really, no.Coffee! 

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    Re: Red invader ?..

    Post by Odinbear on Sun Jul 21, 2013 1:25 am

    Reaperfan wrote:On that note, the Butchers aren't NPCs either.  They're enemies.  Mind you they're special enemies similar to mimics, but still just enemies.  The greying out of NPCs was implemented as an anti-griefing mechanic so you wouldn't get people who invade or co-op just to kill a blacksmith or important merchant.  If an invader kills a butcher it has no long-lasting effect on your gameplay (except maybe making you miss out on the Sack) so there's no reason to grey them out.

     I assumed NPC. Was any non player character.  black knights, hollows, merchants, etc.

    Me bad?


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    Re: Red invader ?..

    Post by Odinbear on Sun Jul 21, 2013 1:27 am

    WhatDoesThePendantDo? wrote:
    Odinbear wrote:Undead rapport, never used it.   Hmmmm.  New toy?

    For fun? Yeah. For practicality? Not really, no.Coffee! 

     My lvl20 STR/pyro just became a DW .  It's all fun now. cheers


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    Re: Red invader ?..

    Post by BrotherBob on Sun Jul 21, 2013 1:37 am

    Odinbear wrote:I assumed NPC. Was any non player character.  black knights, hollows, merchants, etc.

    Me bad?
    I'd actually agree with you, but perhaps the community only classified certain NPCs as "NPCs". It just makes it easier to say "don't kill NPCs" instead of "don't kill NPCs that appear humanoid, are roughly of the same size as you, and have dialogue".


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    Re: Red invader ?..

    Post by BrotherBob on Sun Jul 21, 2013 1:41 am

    Odinbear wrote:
    WhatDoesThePendantDo? wrote:
    Odinbear wrote:Undead rapport, never used it.   Hmmmm.  New toy?

    For fun? Yeah. For practicality? Not really, no.Coffee! 

     My lvl20 STR/pyro just became a DW .  It's all fun now. cheers
    It has no use as an invader, because it is supposed to turn normally-hostile enemies into temporary allies. Since the enemies are already hostile to the host, and invader can't really "turn" them into allies (because they already are). Although, I wonder if you can counter a host's Undead Rapport by casting Undead Rapport at an enemy already affected by the spell.


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    :pharis: They slaughtered our men, our brothers, our sons... The dead cry out to us for justice. On their Souls, I swear to you: the gankers who took them from us, who have brought us such pain and sorrow... we will find them. They will come to the Forest. We will not rest until their blood flows into this very ground.
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    Re: Red invader ?..

    Post by Reaperfan on Sun Jul 21, 2013 3:39 am

    Odinbear wrote:
    Reaperfan wrote:On that note, the Butchers aren't NPCs either.  They're enemies.  Mind you they're special enemies similar to mimics, but still just enemies.  The greying out of NPCs was implemented as an anti-griefing mechanic so you wouldn't get people who invade or co-op just to kill a blacksmith or important merchant.  If an invader kills a butcher it has no long-lasting effect on your gameplay (except maybe making you miss out on the Sack) so there's no reason to grey them out.

     I assumed NPC. Was any non player character.  black knights, hollows, merchants, etc.

    Me bad?

    Technically yes.  That's just a personal quirk of mine where I generalize "NPC" to mean "friendly or neutral non-player characters," because hostile NPCs have better terms to describe them.  Ornstein is technically an NPC, but the term "boss" better describes him and how he interacts with the player.  Same with the Butchers and the term "enemy."

    EDIT: inb4 argument about what the word "literally" literally means silly


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    Re: Red invader ?..

    Post by Gollumseverywhere on Sun Jul 21, 2013 1:01 pm

    Undead rapport works on undead enemies which means butchers, undead rats(i think) some of blightowns citizens, basically anything ud consider hollow..i wonder if it works on the dart guys in blighttown
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    Re: Red invader ?..

    Post by Seignar on Sun Jul 21, 2013 1:38 pm

    From experience, all I can say is that Red Phantoms can be harmed by anything that classifies as first or third party OR another phantom. First party being the host and his phantoms; third party is any attack that can harm mobs and players alike, although it is generally aimed at the first party (such as the Hydra Cannon and Hellkite Breath. If possible, Seath could also kill invaders).

    NPC should not be able to harm Reds as hostile NPC are 2nd Party enemies, with the exception of Andre, who is 3rd party. Undead Rapport converts any 2nd party enemy into a 3rd party aimed at the 2nd party (That's why you can still kill and be killed by your minion).

    If by "Butcher's Wife" you mean Mildred, Reds should still technically be able to get harmed by her.

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    Re: Red invader ?..

    Post by Green__Eagle on Sun Jul 21, 2013 1:59 pm

    I think we refer to the second butcher in the Depths as the "Butcher's Wife" because the pyromancer thanks us for saving him from her. "I would have been her supper if you hadn't saved me" or some such verbiage.


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