Decent build?

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    Wilkinson3424
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    Decent build?

    Post by Wilkinson3424 on Thu Jul 18, 2013 3:55 pm

    Been trying to get some originality into my quality duelist builds, Do you guys like this one?

    http://mmdks.com/3711


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    Animaaal
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    Re: Decent build?

    Post by Animaaal on Thu Jul 18, 2013 4:02 pm

    -Switch out Havel's Gauntlets for Giant's.

    -Lose toxic mist.

    You can hit 45 dex this way. Other than that, looks pretty good.

    Also, I find "mists" work the best with a bow, but that's just me. If you're getting good cover with your playstyle, then screw it, use what works.
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    Re: Decent build?

    Post by SirArchmage on Thu Jul 18, 2013 4:35 pm

    How about this?
    This is without changing the stats and assuming this is already made? Because that much health is a tad excessive. Anything after 50 is pretty much a waste, so I put the Mom Mask on to at least flaunt your massive health pool.

    Plus I think Endurance dumps are better then Vitality dumps, even though the two kind of go hand-in-hand


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    Re: Decent build?

    Post by TheMeInTeam on Thu Jul 18, 2013 4:39 pm

    It's not horrible or anything, but I have a few issues with it:

    1.  Your damage is pretty low at that SL.  Against heavier armor enemies running things like giants the *only* things you'll be able to do are fish or hit + roll, but you'll have to hit + roll a lot because each hit won't do much.
    2.  All greatswords, hammers, UGS, axes (other than hand axe), great hammers can stagger you in 1 hit.  UGS and UGH are probably too slow to staggerstab, but the others aren't, and a number of these can stunlock you.  Conversely, you'll need 2 hits to stagger even fairly low poise builds, but anything over 60 and you'll need 3 even if you 2 hand.

    Basically, you're running a hit + run build that has OK but not amazing range without any boosts for the pyros and no way of materially buffing your weapon.  Think about, say, a fast rolling build with 60+ poise and a claymore:

    http://mmdks.com/371k

    Now note that this is even a slightly lower level...but the build can stagger you for multiple hits off any 2h claymore attack, any black flame (if he goes 125 with 45 dex BF can stunlock you!), and even if you swat him twice all he has to do is hit you once and you lose the trade, despite slightly higher defense for you.

    What about fastroll dragonslayer spear builds?  I don't see how you can pressure them.  Even opposing katana builds might be very hard to deal with, such as this:

    http://mmdks.com/371q

    You'll see stuff like that a lot :p.  Not only does their primary hurt more than yours, but it does so PRE-buff.  With the buff on it's absurd.  I threw on the "try-hard" mother mask for comparable HP, still having more poise, so this build does more dps AND still wins the poise race.  Now you attack at the same speed, but you absolutely can never do anything aside from attempting parries/fishing or beating them on spacing/avoiding trades.  You lose 1:1 trades, can't even attempt a 2nd hit, and they have all the confidence in the world to run up and kick you, r1 spam, etc because they know they can take 2 hits off you even if you 2h your weapon, and you can't take 2 2h hits from them, and kats hit FAST!

    The only build you have some advantages over are tanks, but you have to hit them and escape without a return hit otherwise you're probably getting staggered + taking more damage.

    Builds have to be designed carefully.  If you carry some spare weapons you can make your matchups more favorable, but in all honesty there should be 1-2 things your build is either the best at or right up there with it.  For katanas that's mostly fast dps or pokes/rolls, but you don't have the poise to threaten fast dps nor the damage for the pokes to be overly threatening to most of the standard SL 120 buff builds, hornet fishers, etc.

    Plus I think Endurance dumps are better then Vitality dumps, even though the two kind of go hand-in-hand

    This is objectively true.  After family mask nerf you always get more efficient stat usage by going mask of mother + endurance as opposed to mask of father + vitality.  In a true min/maxed build, there should no longer be such a thing as a giantdad, they should all be moms unless you need the equip weight at 99 end.

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    Re: Decent build?

    Post by Animaaal on Thu Jul 18, 2013 5:21 pm

    TheMeInTeam wrote:

    .....Your damage is pretty low at that SL....

    I think he just forgot to put in the 10 soft humanity lol.

    Also, the outfit you have on says you don't want the typical MoM, HWWC, and dingy robe look...

    ...to which I say kudos to you. Bow 

    Lastly, if you understand the 31, 36, and 41 poise breakpoints (which I assume you do) and function well at that/those breakpoints, I don't see why you'd put more  stats into endurance.

    The Chaos Blade has excellent reach and suits the "float like a butterfly and sting like a bee" play style just fine.  I think you could use that weapon at 31 poise actually.

    The only other thing I would consider is putting another pyrohand in your left hand, or a weapon in your right that allows you to kick, IF you decide to go 45 dex.


    Last edited by Animaaal on Thu Jul 18, 2013 5:36 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Re: Decent build?

    Post by TheMeInTeam on Thu Jul 18, 2013 5:35 pm

    IMO Chaos blade is better at lower SL.  I completely forgot about the soft humanity, but even then you'd be better off in the 120-125 range with a buff since you don't have to give up much for it anymore.  Pyros are nice for a little changeup but compared to having a huge damage multiplier on your weapon and WoG or something like CMW + Dark Bead/Soul Spears a regular katana hit and run w/o those things is at a big disadvantage.  Essentially he'd have to significantly outplay his opponent with that build in order to win.  Generally speaking, if you're truly making a PvP build and not a "trolling around", "PvE", or "fun gimmick" type setup you want to make your build as equal or even advantageous as possible.

    SL 55 or even 100 as level tiers make the chaos blade start looking a lot stronger IMO.

    I see no reason for him to use 2 pyro gloves.  Just put it in your left hand so you can kick + pyro or feign one thing and use the other.  Grass crest regen isn't THAT important and you'd almost never want just the glove + small stamina regen boost as opposed to katana + glove.

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    Re: Decent build?

    Post by Animaaal on Thu Jul 18, 2013 5:44 pm

    Depends on his perspective. Pyros can be very utilitarian. They can break poise pretty efficiently, and can work beautifully with a bleeding weapon when trying to stop someone from rolling through a bleed out.

    Also, the Chaos blade is one of the best sl 100-120 katanas available. It has the longest reach outside of the WP.

    I think its best used in conjunction with the RTSR (according to most forum members), but that's kinda overdoing it imo.

    I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, but I'm trying not to change the premise of his build either. A dex/pyro build is one of the best builds in the game for pvp, regardless of soul level.

    Lastly, unless there's money on the line, I refuse to use the MoM, MoC, HWWC, etcetcetc...I think he might feel the same way. Shrug 

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