Deflection, Reflection, and Everything Inbetween

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    SadPanda
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    Deflection, Reflection, and Everything Inbetween

    Post by SadPanda on Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:58 am

    As someone who loves the feel of greatshields, I feel restricted in PvP using them. Since parries in Dark Souls II have an unconfirmed knockdown instead of a simple riposte, I feel greatshields have an opportunity to become a major contender in PvP. Perhaps the window could be shorter for a stronger riposte, or longer for a weaker riposte. 

    Now on the topic of deflection and reflection. Deflection in PvP needs some tweaking. Deflection is non-existent in PvP currently, but I feel it should be strongly implemented in Dark Souls II because it would give strength users, or greatshield users specifically, a slight edge.

    Now reflection is tricky. When it's done in games it's either terribly weak, or unbearably overpowered. I feel Karmic Justice was a well done way of using reflection. However, and I'm 100% sure somebody has thought of this, but the Mirror Knight shield could be a boss weapon capable of shattering damage into an opponent's face. Perhaps a charge attack or something like Karmic Justice.

    Or in Demon's Souls fashion, the souls could be used for a Karmic Justice like spell.

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    Re: Deflection, Reflection, and Everything Inbetween

    Post by SirArchmage on Thu Jul 18, 2013 2:36 am

    Funnily enough, I talked about something like this recently. The deflection in Dark Souls, where you send a spell back when you use force or Wrath of the Gods, does not damage the enemy. If they were to throw a great fireball at you, and you were to deflect it with Wrath of the Gods and send it flying back at their face, they would take no damage. I want them to get burned by their own spell if it gets sent back to them in Dark Souls 2. Tested this out on sorceries also. Same thing. No killing the enemy by deflecting their own soul spear at their face.

    In Dark Souls 2 if I can do something like hurting someone with their own spell with deflection, I will be  glad.

    Reflection however? Not sure. Like you said it could be great or it could be horrible. No real opinion on the matter, but I will say that I want greatshield bashes to be like better versions of kicks - Knock people back no matter their poise and do a bit of damage as well.


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    Re: Deflection, Reflection, and Everything Inbetween

    Post by phastings on Thu Jul 18, 2013 3:26 am

    I am a str focused player, love the idea of greatshields, and agree they need to include some form of deflection in pvp while using one. Shield bash is currently rather useless..

    I think it would be best implemented performing a shield-bash timed just right when an opponent lands a blow, which results in them being staggered for a shorter time than parry/riposte, and cannot land a critical. Perhaps it would just drain their stamina.

    However, simply staggering them from their connected hit while shield is raised may be a little too OP


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    Re: Deflection, Reflection, and Everything Inbetween

    Post by Sentiel on Thu Jul 18, 2013 3:32 am

    In one of the interviews, they said that Mirror Knight's shield deflects spells. That, the spells "bounce" off the shield.
    Thies feature would be cool to have in PvP, but there are few problems with it.

    What will stop you from simply turtling away all spells like this?
    How can the shield deflect AoE spells like WoG and Firestorm?
    What happens if the deflected spells hit something else, or it's caster?

    These three have potential to strongly affect PvP, if there will be an option to deflect spells.

    If we're going to get Mirror Knights shield, it will either be a Crest Shield variant. Meaning a Medium Shield with very high Magic Resistance, or a Greatshield with big Stat requirements and either very high, or maximum Magic resistance, or the deflection abilty. Still there needs to be something disabling the shield's user from deflecting everything. Perhaps big Durability/Stamina drain on deflection, need to block the spell with some L2 move and very precise timing, etc.

    There are many ways to do this and even more ways to screw this up.

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    Re: Deflection, Reflection, and Everything Inbetween

    Post by Soul of Stray Demon on Fri Jul 19, 2013 2:31 pm

    Just adding this small bit in, but wouldn't the spell deflection work great as a special r2 bash. Add a reason to bash with a great shield.

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    Re: Deflection, Reflection, and Everything Inbetween

    Post by LunarFog on Fri Jul 19, 2013 3:48 pm

    I'd definitely give the greatshield's shieldbash massive stamina consumption if blocked, much  more than a kick.  Having them stagger an attack if they timed it right like a parry, but without the chance to riposte seems like a great addition too.

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    Re: Deflection, Reflection, and Everything Inbetween

    Post by phastings on Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:47 pm

    I accidentally posted this to the wrong thread, but if you watch the comic con gameplay footage uploaded by Senthra, 
    mirror knight fight:
    when the minion is summoned, he charges the player carrying a greatshield and proceeds to shield-bash, which completely drains the player's stamina, so quite possibly they have implemented a more effective R2 for greatshields


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    Re: Deflection, Reflection, and Everything Inbetween

    Post by Soul of Stray Demon on Sat Jul 20, 2013 4:50 pm

    They could allow us to parry spells and reflect them back. Would be pretty cool to do that.

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    Re: Deflection, Reflection, and Everything Inbetween

    Post by blkfish92 on Sun Jul 21, 2013 12:22 am

    Deflection can be done with Havel's shield buff.


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    Re: Deflection, Reflection, and Everything Inbetween

    Post by phastings on Sun Jul 21, 2013 3:10 am

    Sorry for that rant


    Last edited by phastings on Mon Jul 22, 2013 2:33 pm; edited 1 time in total


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    Re: Deflection, Reflection, and Everything Inbetween

    Post by Thuggernaut on Mon Jul 22, 2013 12:56 pm

    SirArchmage wrote:Reflection however? Not sure. Like you said it could be great or it could be horrible. No real opinion on the matter, but I will say that I want greatshield bashes to be like better versions of kicks - Knock people back no matter their poise and do a bit of damage as well.

    What if bash poise damage/damage was based on your weight? >50% might have a purpose other then watching your character fat roll.

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    Re: Deflection, Reflection, and Everything Inbetween

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