Shields becoming useless <skill

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    Kyuseishu
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    Shields becoming useless <skill

    Post by Kyuseishu on Wed Jul 17, 2013 3:00 am

    So for the last7-8 playthroughs I have abandoned using a shield . I see no point to ever pick them up when I run past them (crest/grass/blood). Every weapon I just two hand, and I only go up to the min in str. if its not the primary scaling stat.My point is that it seems that the buffs or benefits from shields, are just out weighed by the weight of them.For example I mid-roll, no real point for fast, I can get the poise and a ton of def, at very early levels. Just curious if others feel the same.


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    Re: Shields becoming useless <skill

    Post by Reaperfan on Wed Jul 17, 2013 6:21 am

    If you have the equipment load, there's really no reason to NOT use the GCS on your back even if you always two-hand weapons. Better stamina regen means you get to dodge and attack more often. It also helps that you have an option for parrying without being stuck with just your bare hands for the task. A whiffed parry with a shield can still protect you some. A whiffed parry with an empty slot means you're eating damage.


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    Re: Shields becoming useless <skill

    Post by Automancer on Wed Jul 17, 2013 8:43 am

    I've never used a shield in either PvE or PvP after my first playthrough of the game.
    They're big, clunky and irritating for my tastes.


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    Re: Shields becoming useless <skill

    Post by Serious_Much on Wed Jul 17, 2013 8:54 am

    I always use a shield when I'm running pve. It's not like i need it really, but it makes it much, much simpler to beat bosses and enemies. Dodging is good, but sometimes blocking so you can remain in position is better than having to move.


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    Re: Shields becoming useless <skill

    Post by Marino. on Wed Jul 17, 2013 10:04 am

    Serious_Much wrote:I always use a shield when I'm running pve. It's not like i need it really, but it makes it much, much simpler to beat bosses and enemies. Dodging is good, but sometimes blocking so you can remain in position is better than having to move.

    I'm really fond of the Claws atm, the rolling Attack makes you Roll towards your Target and it has some I-Frames to boot, so whenever i dodge i can just use the Rolling Attack to reach my Enemy anyway .

    I destroy S&O with my Dual Raw Claws +4 .

    The Damage kind of sucks though, so you pretty much need a Buff .
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    Re: Shields becoming useless <skill

    Post by TheMeInTeam on Wed Jul 17, 2013 10:08 am

    Shields are useful in both PvE and PvP, though a bit overused in both I suspect.  As others point out, if you have grass crest you might as well wear it if it doesn't change your roll speed; even if you never use it to block it's useful.

    However, shields are also useful for stalling out the lizardmen waiting for boulders in Sen's, and blocking stuff then running around it in general.

    In PvP they can be amazing or very average depending on what you're using and who you're fighting.  Take someone using big, slow weapons with range.  You can poke from behind a shield while blocking a hit, then still be able to block one more attack while backing out.  This puts the other guy at a tremendous disadvantage since he literally can't hit you unless you badly telegraph and he roll-BS, or he switches weapons.  Shields are also a useful counter to people 2handing the long spears (demon's, dragonslayer) since they let you safely close the distance where ordinarily the guy with the spear could poke for damage and roll back.  With the shield he has to fish, kick, or switch to a different weapon/spells.

    The ability to block and literally setup-parry from that is also very useful.  Shields *usually* add more utility than an offhand weapon, and are situationally useful depending on what you're fighting.


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    Re: Shields becoming useless <skill

    Post by RANT on Wed Jul 17, 2013 10:15 am

    its all about preference imo, although in pve as you get into more ng+'s it is better to learn how to dodge which will make it easier for you.


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    Re: Shields becoming useless <skill

    Post by TheMeInTeam on Wed Jul 17, 2013 10:45 am

    Unlike poise tanking though, blocks are actually still viable in NG+.  The enemies get much more damage but not much more, if any more, guard breaking capability.

    In other words, you'd still be able to block anything you would ordinarily block in NG, though I agree that dodging frequently has more utility (aside from super greatshields I wouldn't advocate blocking vs 4kings for example because that burns stamina you could be using to attack them, and you *need* to attack them quickly).

    I bet you could get really really far into multiple NG+ territory with a greatshield + pyros or some such though, simply blocking and hitting them between attacks, especially because the only 100% fire immune boss that can't be bow stun-locked or punched to death in 1 hit is the centipede demon.


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    Re: Shields becoming useless <skill

    Post by chantienyee on Wed Jul 17, 2013 3:24 pm

    Can you roll through AOEs like Demon Firesage's and Asylum Demon's magic blasts?


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    Re: Shields becoming useless <skill

    Post by Marino. on Wed Jul 17, 2013 3:27 pm

    I'm pretty sure you can't . Their Attacks last longer than the I-Frames of any Roll .
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    Re: Shields becoming useless <skill

    Post by Green__Eagle on Wed Jul 17, 2013 5:13 pm

    However, it is possible to run behind each of those demons and use their body to block the AOE attack.

    That's how I defeat them at low levels.


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    Re: Shields becoming useless <skill

    Post by Shakie666 on Wed Jul 17, 2013 7:02 pm

    RANT wrote:its all about preference imo, although in pve as you get into more ng+'s it is better to learn how to dodge which will make it easier for you.

    Really? In my experience, its the complete opposite. The damage the bosses do increases, but the stamina damage from blocking them doesn't increase. Unless you're up against multiple opponents, you can't really fail to block. On the other hand, failing a dodge means you take 100% of the damage, which usually results in a KO in NG+7 when it gets comboed with other attacks.

    Admittedly, I only ever use greatshields as it is, that might have something to do with my preference silly
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    Re: Shields becoming useless <skill

    Post by Forum Pirate on Wed Jul 17, 2013 7:08 pm

    Shields are far from usless. You can dodge everything, yes, but you can also block (effectively, which weapons don't), often for similar stamina loss, but without exposing yourself to the recovery vulnerability that the rolls have.


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    Re: Shields becoming useless <skill

    Post by LunarFog on Wed Jul 17, 2013 8:55 pm

    A shield blocks damage from attacks you can't avoid.  If you go through the game enough to the point where you memorize the hit patterns of monsters then yea, shields are useless.

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    Re: Shields becoming useless <skill

    Post by GrinTwist on Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:05 pm

    I haven't done much PVE in the past month or so so I would probably need a shield but most of the time I tend not to use them.


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    Re: Shields becoming useless <skill

    Post by hey its andres on Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:11 pm

    There are still "undodgable" attacks that make this a problem. Nito and the Four Kings have an explosion attack that seems to last longer than the roll, believe me I've tried. In PVP there are attacks that, no matter your experience, are so unpredictable they are almost impossible to dodge. Try rolling away from a laggy[er] CSS. You'll come out of the roll taking the blast to your face. The Grant's AoE can also change depending on lag.

    These moves aside, shields still have a charm of their own. Have you ever put the bloodbite ring on with Greatshield of Artorias? Katanas become joke, and when they run out of health you can basically play with them like a rag doll.

    Shields are also good for parrying, especially if the attacker is hitting you in an unpredictable way.

    Even without all of these, some builds just need shields. It's not always feasible to roll past everything, and gankers can become particularly nasty if you try to mid roll away from them (Even fast roll is risky). What about a build that uses a great axe? You want hold on to your stamina like girls hold on to chocolate.

    Shields are capable of one thing that dodging is not: "unlocking" (not locking on). When you're doing pvp and someone starts doing the crab walk you know what's about to happen. "Unlocking" (is this seriously the best term we could come up with?) will stop them from BS'ing you pretty much every time. When they go for the BS though you need a shield to take that hit. Rolling will just make it easier for them to BS you.

    Basically, shields have their moments and are definitely not useless. No, forget this. Shields are freaking amazing.


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    Re: Shields becoming useless <skill

    Post by Dr__Awkward on Thu Jul 18, 2013 9:35 am

    IF it wasn't for the greatshield of artorias I don't think I could have got through the sanctuary guardian the first time and I would have quit haha. that thing can take a beating


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    Re: Shields becoming useless <skill

    Post by Automancer on Sun Jul 21, 2013 3:53 am

    hey its andres wrote:There are still "undodgable" attacks that make this a problem. Nito and the Four Kings have an explosion attack that seems to last longer than the roll, believe me I've tried. In PVP there are attacks that, no matter your experience, are so unpredictable they are almost impossible to dodge. Try rolling away from a laggy[er] CSS. You'll come out of the roll taking the blast to your face. The Grant's AoE can also change depending on lag.

    These moves aside, shields still have a charm of their own. Have you ever put the bloodbite ring on with Greatshield of Artorias? Katanas become joke, and when they run out of health you can basically play with them like a rag doll.

    Shields are also good for parrying, especially if the attacker is hitting you in an unpredictable way.

    Even without all of these, some builds just need shields. It's not always feasible to roll past everything, and gankers can become particularly nasty if you try to mid roll away from them (Even fast roll is risky). What about a build that uses a great axe? You want hold on to your stamina like girls hold on to chocolate.

    Shields are capable of one thing that dodging is not: "unlocking" (not locking on). When you're doing pvp and someone starts doing the crab walk you know what's about to happen. "Unlocking" (is this seriously the best term we could come up with?) will stop them from BS'ing you pretty much every time. When they go for the BS though you need a shield to take that hit. Rolling will just make it easier for them to BS you.

    Basically, shields have their moments and are definitely not useless. No, forget this. Shields are freaking amazing.

    Not entirely true. You don't need shields to parry.
    Sometimes, it's better to slug it out than to dodge every single attack. You also don't need a shield to block an unlocked hit. You can block when you 2hand a weapon. Or even better, toggle out and bs/parry them.

    Blocking with a shield doesn't necessarily mean that the others can't BS you. Because of latency, once they're behind you and their position is parallel to you, you're gonna get BS'ed no matter what. And there's always counter-bs.

    Indeed, shields have their moments but you won't realize how dependent you are on them until you strip yourself of that shield.


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    Re: Shields becoming useless <skill

    Post by hey its andres on Sun Jul 21, 2013 4:16 am

    Well I've done multiple no shield runs, my favorite being a parrying dagger and occult knife with wanderer set Sun 

    In general, it is more advantageous to have a shield, at least for me. There is not only one way to play Dark Souls. I'm sure you can think of a weapon you think is useless that at least one person is awesome with.


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    Re: Shields becoming useless <skill

    Post by OrnsteinBro on Sun Jul 28, 2013 7:50 am

    While it may not be the case in PVE, shields are very useful in PVP. Often when you backroll or move, the other guy will zone in on the space you were 1-3 seconds ago to wail on thin air. If you don't have a shield, you'd be sustaining massive damage from across the screen (especially if they have a fast swing weapon like gold tracer) or be forced to waste stamina in a pointless dodgeroll sequence to avoid getting lagshotted.


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    Re: Shields becoming useless <skill

    Post by KrazykevS10 on Sun Jul 28, 2013 11:33 am

    I carry a shield as a safety net for when rolling just won't save me.A quick block after a roll stops the damn lag hits if you are doing some PVP.But I do think rolling is more useful.


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    Re: Shields becoming useless <skill

    Post by Devokai on Sun Jul 28, 2013 1:23 pm

    I'm in agreement with serious on this one. Shields are a lazy man's tool for comfort.
    Sure you CAN learn every attack pattern and dodge or at least run out of the range of most every attack in the game. But why waste that mental capacity when you can simply press L1 for a brief second. There are also invaluable tools that come with being able to shield poke. Maybe not as a main strategy, but getting solid instability damage or what's essentially a free hit out of the blue on a more aggressive opponent does nothing but help you. The benefits of partial parrying (although personally I think the frames for partially blocking are TOO DAMN HIGH!...but w/e) are there as well. As far as pve goes, different situations call for different things -shrugs- Not a big fan of the pve game cas it's just static and predictable.

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