A lesson on being a man.

    Share
    avatar
    sparkly-twinkly-lizard
    Compulsory Poster
    Compulsory Poster

    Posts : 3627
    Reputation : 144
    Join date : 2012-01-19
    Age : 23
    Location : World 4-2 Demon Souls

    Re: A lesson on being a man.

    Post by sparkly-twinkly-lizard on Tue Jul 16, 2013 1:14 am

    hmm no mention of the dragon d***... I mean tooth? and what about the pickaxe:


    _________________
    ლ(ಠ_ಠლ) (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
    avatar
    Myztyrio
    Insomniac
    Insomniac

    Posts : 1223
    Reputation : 44
    Join date : 2012-07-29
    Age : 22
    Location : Milliontown

    Re: A lesson on being a man.

    Post by Myztyrio on Tue Jul 16, 2013 7:41 am

    Not very viable in Dark Souls. BS fishers will always overcome a tank. Wait for Dark Souls II for large builds. I know I will be playing them.


    _________________
    PSN: Myztyrio
    Sub: AzureArmageddon




    avatar
    TheMeInTeam
    Insomniac
    Insomniac

    Posts : 1010
    Reputation : 42
    Join date : 2012-11-05
    Age : 34
    Location : 1337 Accuracy Way

    Re: A lesson on being a man.

    Post by TheMeInTeam on Tue Jul 16, 2013 11:02 am

    BS fish will not get a competent tank unless he gets caught in a slow attack while too close, which isn't competent.

    People vastly overrate the threat of a backstab because they space closely and the lag allows warping.  It's the same thing with dead angles; if you are wielding a spear and stay near the end of its range dead angling you is essentially impossible, since either they use max range and face you (you can block), or the DA attempt will miss.

    I often just kick fishers a few times and blast through their shields.  Decent players at least realize the threat and back off.

    How do you fish someone who just circles backwards away from you?  You can't do it, and if you handle your tank properly neither can they.


    _________________
    There is no "I" in team.  There is no "we" either.  There is a me.
    Dolan would like you to turn around and pick up that item on the ground.
    avatar
    SirArchmage
    Insomniac
    Insomniac

    Posts : 1146
    Reputation : 85
    Join date : 2013-04-24
    Age : 21
    Location : 537 Paper Street Soap Company

    Re: A lesson on being a man.

    Post by SirArchmage on Tue Jul 16, 2013 1:48 pm

    Myztyrio wrote:Not very viable in Dark Souls. BS fishers will always overcome a tank. Wait for Dark Souls II for large builds. I know I will be playing them.
    You've never made a good tank build, have you?

    I quite honestly get back stabbed the least when I am a tank. And I play tank quite often. I never even rely on dead angles to beat bs fishers


    _________________
    :sign: I don't kill you in the most effective of ways. I kill you in the funniest. :sign:
    "Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know."
    -Ernest Hemmingway

    The Heretic was here twisted Mwa haha
    avatar
    Sentiel
    Compulsory Poster
    Compulsory Poster

    Posts : 3181
    Reputation : 231
    Join date : 2012-11-26
    Age : 30
    Location : Mushroom Kingdom

    Re: A lesson on being a man.

    Post by Sentiel on Tue Jul 16, 2013 2:01 pm

    I Dead Angle quite a lot with my tank. Unintentionally.
    I just unlock and swing in a way to catch a roll bs attempt, but if the guy decides to try and strafe bs me instead, he gets a Dead Angle. -__-

    avatar
    LunarFog
    Hollowed
    Hollowed

    Posts : 1856
    Reputation : 109
    Join date : 2012-12-05
    Age : 22
    Location : Darkroot Basin

    Re: A lesson on being a man.

    Post by LunarFog on Tue Jul 16, 2013 3:21 pm

    I rarely have problems with bs fishers on my tank either.  On any other character I just counter bs.  On my tank I unlock.  Unlocking fails more than counter bsing but not significantly more.  Plus I blame the fact that I spent my entire Dark souls career learning how to counter bs and just now started unlocking.

     

    avatar
    Rynn
    Chosen Undead
    Chosen Undead

    Posts : 4689
    Reputation : 257
    Join date : 2012-01-26

    Re: A lesson on being a man.

    Post by Rynn on Tue Jul 16, 2013 4:44 pm

    Backstabbing is obvious. And counter backstabs are easier while fat rolling than while fast rolling.

    i have no issues with backstabs.
    avatar
    Forum Pirate
    Chosen Undead
    Chosen Undead

    Posts : 6625
    Reputation : 232
    Join date : 2012-01-30
    Age : 26
    Location : International waters

    Re: A lesson on being a man.

    Post by Forum Pirate on Tue Jul 16, 2013 6:10 pm

    i have no issues with back stabs while mid rolling either. I'm far more likely to land a bs with my slower rollers than to take one.


    _________________
    Your rules are yours
    My honor is mine.
    Perspective is everything.
    We are Exiles, and our home is Painted with the blood of trespassers.
    avatar
    hey its andres
    Insomniac
    Insomniac

    Posts : 1044
    Reputation : 32
    Join date : 2012-12-02
    Age : 22
    Location : Darkroot Garden, California

    Re: A lesson on being a man.

    Post by hey its andres on Tue Jul 16, 2013 7:30 pm

    LunarFog wrote:I rarely have problems with bs fishers on my tank either.  On any other character I just counter bs.  On my tank I unlock.  Unlocking fails more than counter bsing but not significantly more.  Plus I blame the fact that I spent my entire Dark souls career learning how to counter bs and just now started unlocking.

     

    Seriously, locking on is horrible on larger builds. With the dragon king greataxe I can normally change direction fast enough to get them. I like the dragon tooth as well and if you roll just the right way, the 1h will dead angle every now and then (Freaks the f--- out of people. lol! 


    _________________
    XBL: hey its andres
    And now on Youtube!  
    avatar
    Kiva the wanderer
    Caffeinated
    Caffeinated

    Posts : 908
    Reputation : 19
    Join date : 2012-08-22
    Age : 22
    Location : Scotland

    Re: A lesson on being a man.

    Post by Kiva the wanderer on Tue Jul 16, 2013 7:31 pm

    Str builds usually use weapons that counter BS fishers ( Ultra greatswords )


    _________________
    XBL: Kiva N Chips




    Ill be on PS4 at around Christmas time hopefully so my psn tag is "KivaNChips"




    Multiplayer titles and Souls games
    Main games on X360 ATM: Dark Souls, DKS2 (Wont be online though :'c), BF3 and Halo 4.
    Target games on PS4: Killzone: Shadow Fall, Destiny and a next gen souls title?




    games im following
    InFamous, Shadow of the Beast, MGS V, Lords of the fallen, The Order: 1886, The Evil Within (WOO!), Fallout 4, Star Wars battlefront, Kingdom hearts 3, The division, Warhammer MMO, Watch dogs and so much more.




    So many games, so little time (And Money).
    avatar
    Forum Pirate
    Chosen Undead
    Chosen Undead

    Posts : 6625
    Reputation : 232
    Join date : 2012-01-30
    Age : 26
    Location : International waters

    Re: A lesson on being a man.

    Post by Forum Pirate on Tue Jul 16, 2013 7:34 pm

    Or just unlock. I can tank with a kat/spear/gteatsword/halberd just fine. Unlock and swing/kick. Fire surge destroys bs fishing too. You look stupid spinning in circles like that but it works really well.


    _________________
    Your rules are yours
    My honor is mine.
    Perspective is everything.
    We are Exiles, and our home is Painted with the blood of trespassers.

    Animaaal
    Compulsory Poster
    Compulsory Poster

    Posts : 3419
    Reputation : 175
    Join date : 2013-01-17

    Re: A lesson on being a man.

    Post by Animaaal on Tue Jul 16, 2013 7:41 pm

    Myztyrio wrote:Not very viable in Dark Souls. BS fishers will always overcome a tank. Wait for Dark Souls II for large builds. I know I will be playing them.

    I am in complete agreement and want this as well. +1.
    avatar
    hey its andres
    Insomniac
    Insomniac

    Posts : 1044
    Reputation : 32
    Join date : 2012-12-02
    Age : 22
    Location : Darkroot Garden, California

    Re: A lesson on being a man.

    Post by hey its andres on Tue Jul 16, 2013 7:47 pm

    ^ I did Ironflesh+Fire Surge just for fun one time and I actually killed a lot of BS fishers. With the Crown of Dusk, bellowing dragoncrest ring, and enough poise you can actually trade blows and stunlock people. Fire Surge can definitely work people just would rather use phantom combustion/black flame.


    _________________
    XBL: hey its andres
    And now on Youtube!  
    avatar
    Myztyrio
    Insomniac
    Insomniac

    Posts : 1223
    Reputation : 44
    Join date : 2012-07-29
    Age : 22
    Location : Milliontown

    Re: A lesson on being a man.

    Post by Myztyrio on Tue Jul 16, 2013 10:18 pm

    SirArchmage wrote:
    Myztyrio wrote:Not very viable in Dark Souls. BS fishers will always overcome a tank. Wait for Dark Souls II for large builds. I know I will be playing them.
    You've never made a good tank build, have you?

    I quite honestly get back stabbed the least when I am a tank. And I play tank quite often. I never even rely on dead angles to beat bs fishers

     I have a quality tank. And a Fth/str tank. And a high level ~400 that I use as a tank a lot. I have plenty of experience as every type of build. Tanks will always suffer against smart players.


    _________________
    PSN: Myztyrio
    Sub: AzureArmageddon




    avatar
    Rynn
    Chosen Undead
    Chosen Undead

    Posts : 4689
    Reputation : 257
    Join date : 2012-01-26

    Re: A lesson on being a man.

    Post by Rynn on Tue Jul 16, 2013 10:24 pm

    Then you must not be all too smart of a player.

    The job of a tank is to use it's additional weight to make certain it can always outperform the smart player, and beat them from sheer willpower of the player.
    avatar
    TheMeInTeam
    Insomniac
    Insomniac

    Posts : 1010
    Reputation : 42
    Join date : 2012-11-05
    Age : 34
    Location : 1337 Accuracy Way

    Re: A lesson on being a man.

    Post by TheMeInTeam on Wed Jul 17, 2013 1:00 am

    Sheer will?  Don't be silly.  What tanks need are different spacing, timing, and the ability to trade.  If a fast roller's ability to punish is limited, it gets very hard for them to win a poise or DPS race and they're forced into a position where they have to guess.

    Any decent build, tanks included, needs enough versatility to at least force its opponents to guess at what kinds of attacks will come.  Poise is a big advantage; it literally changes what the opponent can do to you offensively.  Maxed defense gives more room for guessing wrongly, as long as you avoid criticals.

    What tanks have to avoid or counter are spells, poking hell, and fishing (especially poise fishing).  There are ways to handle all 3 even while fatrolling, if you plan.


    _________________
    There is no "I" in team.  There is no "we" either.  There is a me.
    Dolan would like you to turn around and pick up that item on the ground.
    avatar
    LunarFog
    Hollowed
    Hollowed

    Posts : 1856
    Reputation : 109
    Join date : 2012-12-05
    Age : 22
    Location : Darkroot Basin

    Re: A lesson on being a man.

    Post by LunarFog on Wed Jul 17, 2013 2:14 am

    TheMeInTeam wrote:Sheer will?  Don't be silly.  What tanks need are different spacing, timing, and the ability to trade.  If a fast roller's ability to punish is limited, it gets very hard for them to win a poise or DPS race and they're forced into a position where they have to guess.

    Any decent build, tanks included, needs enough versatility to at least force its opponents to guess at what kinds of attacks will come.  Poise is a big advantage; it literally changes what the opponent can do to you offensively.  Maxed defense gives more room for guessing wrongly, as long as you avoid criticals.

    What tanks have to avoid or counter are spells, poking hell, and fishing (especially poise fishing).  There are ways to handle all 3 even while fatrolling, if you plan.
    Exactly.  Couldn't agree with you more.  And those are all relatively easy to handle if you know what to do.


    For most cases in magic, you can safely fatroll through spells.  If not then there's always shields with super high magic resistance like Havel's or the cleansing shield.


    All you need to do to handle fishers is to play unlocked.  Counter fishing is also pretty easy to do even with fat roll speed.


    And dealing with poking just requires patience.  Wait for him to get impatient and poke 2 or 3 or even 4 times, then try to bust through his block.  Or just make use of poison/toxin.

    avatar
    TheMeInTeam
    Insomniac
    Insomniac

    Posts : 1010
    Reputation : 42
    Join date : 2012-11-05
    Age : 34
    Location : 1337 Accuracy Way

    Re: A lesson on being a man.

    Post by TheMeInTeam on Wed Jul 17, 2013 10:15 am

    I would say that in addition to playing unlocked vs fishing, if you're using a slow weapon (IE most things that scale with primarily STR) you need to mind your spacing too, so they can't close and get to your back before the animation completes.

    The worst kind of pokes for tanks are 2h fast rolls off spears.  IMO tanks really need their shield for that unless they're using some of the bigger ranged weapons.  When you're using stuff like the mace you absolutely have to block, though fortunately spears are just about the worst weapon in the game for dead angles.


    _________________
    There is no "I" in team.  There is no "we" either.  There is a me.
    Dolan would like you to turn around and pick up that item on the ground.
    avatar
    Rynn
    Chosen Undead
    Chosen Undead

    Posts : 4689
    Reputation : 257
    Join date : 2012-01-26

    Re: A lesson on being a man.

    Post by Rynn on Wed Jul 17, 2013 4:48 pm

    TheMeInTeam wrote:I would say that in addition to playing unlocked vs fishing, if you're using a slow weapon (IE most things that scale with primarily STR) you need to mind your spacing too, so they can't close and get to your back before the animation completes.

    The worst kind of pokes for tanks are 2h fast rolls off spears.  IMO tanks really need their shield for that unless they're using some of the bigger ranged weapons.  When you're using stuff like the mace you absolutely have to block, though fortunately spears are just about the worst weapon in the game for dead angles.

     Spear users?
    Turtle Back.
    avatar
    TheMeInTeam
    Insomniac
    Insomniac

    Posts : 1010
    Reputation : 42
    Join date : 2012-11-05
    Age : 34
    Location : 1337 Accuracy Way

    Re: A lesson on being a man.

    Post by TheMeInTeam on Wed Jul 17, 2013 5:09 pm

    Rynn wrote:
    TheMeInTeam wrote:I would say that in addition to playing unlocked vs fishing, if you're using a slow weapon (IE most things that scale with primarily STR) you need to mind your spacing too, so they can't close and get to your back before the animation completes.

    The worst kind of pokes for tanks are 2h fast rolls off spears.  IMO tanks really need their shield for that unless they're using some of the bigger ranged weapons.  When you're using stuff like the mace you absolutely have to block, though fortunately spears are just about the worst weapon in the game for dead angles.

     Spear users?
    Turtle Back.

    I did kind of imply that happy.
    avatar
    Shakie666
    Obsessed
    Obsessed

    Posts : 445
    Reputation : 12
    Join date : 2012-01-24
    Location : Nowhere you've heard of.

    Re: A lesson on being a man.

    Post by Shakie666 on Wed Jul 17, 2013 7:12 pm

    This is a thread I wholeheartedly approve of. Leave the magic to Penn & Teller and go around like this.

    No really, you should. You'll be surprised how much you win if you're patient.

    EDIT: The nice thing about forest pvp is that there's plenty of trees and walls to back up against to foil bs fishing. While the DGA 1H R2 is a wide sweep that works well unlocked, walls/trees are probably easier to use for a new tank.
    avatar
    hey its andres
    Insomniac
    Insomniac

    Posts : 1044
    Reputation : 32
    Join date : 2012-12-02
    Age : 22
    Location : Darkroot Garden, California

    Re: A lesson on being a man.

    Post by hey its andres on Wed Jul 17, 2013 8:55 pm

    Patience is key in any battle. I've noticed that the person who makes the first move is normally the person who loses, assuming both players have similar experience and no hacking is involved. It's just because you CAN'T afford to be aggressive in Dark Souls, at anytime. Combat is much more likely to tilt in your favor if you're patient and counter things as they come to you.

    Maybe this is just my preference, but I really think this is the ultimate playstyle, also assuming you don't have a plan like PW DMB Dragon's tooth lol! 


    _________________
    XBL: hey its andres
    And now on Youtube!  
    avatar
    SirArchmage
    Insomniac
    Insomniac

    Posts : 1146
    Reputation : 85
    Join date : 2013-04-24
    Age : 21
    Location : 537 Paper Street Soap Company

    Re: A lesson on being a man.

    Post by SirArchmage on Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:12 pm

    Patience? Defensive? What are these silly things you talk about? On every class I play I go offensive. Don't care if I am a crazy fast ninja flipper or a slow walking tank I will take the offensive and always go first move. Due to the way I play, I don't let people take too much time to plan against me and constantly change what I am doing to different things mid-battle to make them guess even more. Only times I may go defensive is against a DMB or Sunlight Blade buff, Pursuers, or I am on low health and they can afford to be more aggressive then me.


    _________________
    :sign: I don't kill you in the most effective of ways. I kill you in the funniest. :sign:
    "Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know."
    -Ernest Hemmingway

    The Heretic was here twisted Mwa haha
    avatar
    hey its andres
    Insomniac
    Insomniac

    Posts : 1044
    Reputation : 32
    Join date : 2012-12-02
    Age : 22
    Location : Darkroot Garden, California

    Re: A lesson on being a man.

    Post by hey its andres on Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:51 pm

    I didn't say "defensive" I said patient. silly 

    You can play offensively without playing aggressively. The first blow bit was just something I noticed. When you invade you sprint to your target and R1 spam and roll everywhere? Do you fire all of your spells and use all of your stamina before your opponent has even tried to attack? This is what I mean by aggressive. Defensive and offensive are different playstyles and neither is better; however, if you want to be Dark Souls you'll need patience.


    _________________
    XBL: hey its andres
    And now on Youtube!  
    avatar
    Ghadis_God
    Revived
    Revived

    Posts : 2290
    Reputation : 120
    Join date : 2012-05-27

    Re: A lesson on being a man.

    Post by Ghadis_God on Wed Jul 17, 2013 11:38 pm

    There's definitely something manly about blasting your enemy with fire and melting his face off. Think of it as manifesting the blazing passion in your heart.


    _________________
    7:eye-death: http://soulswiki.forumsrpg.com/t22607-children-of-the-grave-now-recruiting#472079 :eye-death:             

    PSN accounts: Ghadis_God
                         ringo_mogire_SZS

    Sponsored content

    Re: A lesson on being a man.

    Post by Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Mon Oct 23, 2017 8:52 am