A lesson on being a man.

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    LunarFog
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    Re: A lesson on being a man.

    Post by LunarFog on Mon Jul 15, 2013 2:26 pm

    Sentiel wrote:Nobody got time to read all this.

    I wanted to be a real man! So I took my Black Iron getup, made a 50/10 build, like a real man. Tarkus style! However I ended up failing with weapons.

    Damage-wise, best choices are Demon weapons, but god, those things are slow as turtle orgy and can't hit anything that doesn't fatroll. I didn't want to use Man-serpent Greatsword, because it has a moveset way too similar to Claymore. I want a change! I tried more, or less everything Str based and now I understand why everybody uses Zwei, or Large Clubs. Zwei is just super easy to use as long as you watch your timing and spacing. Large Clubs do huge damage, which is only a little lower than those of Demon weapons, while they weight half, or even less of what Demon weapons weight. With their roll R1 AoE, I know think that these weapons should be nerfed. I don't understand how a piece of wood can do more damage than huge axe, or a sword.

    On the other hand. If I do manage to actually hit someone with a Demon weapon, they can kiss goodbye to around 800-900 of their HP, but I can't stagger them to land another hit and I'm too slow to connect it to a bs.

    My manliness needs more training! silly
    You're on the right track sentinel.  If you're using demon weapons try to go with dual-exchanges and faking them out.


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    Re: A lesson on being a man.

    Post by sids__09 on Mon Jul 15, 2013 2:35 pm

    Awesome thread, slimjim! I can't read it, because I have a something something and chest hair, but it's pretty ball-tastic. *FLEX*
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    Re: A lesson on being a man.

    Post by TheMeInTeam on Mon Jul 15, 2013 2:42 pm

    I don't understand how a piece of wood can do more damage than huge axe, or a sword.



    Against armor, a club that size out-damaging a sword is very plausible.  It's actually very difficult to cut through/slice metal armor (by comparison, only very well-made armor resisted thrusts by good puncture weapons).  However, blunt force trauma can still be quite large even if you don't penetrate the armor whatsoever.  This is part of the reason why the mace was a reasonably-used weapon in the times of heavy armor.  Now, take that concept and replace "mace" with "tree trunk swung by someone with apparently superhuman strength", and any doubts that such would do a tremendous amount of damage start to vanish.

    The larger axes should have similar weight to them though.  The great axe could use a little boost if anything, considering its slow speed and limited range + huge weight.  DGM doesn't stunlock but at 27 str it does more damage (by a little) than a 2h 27/40 zwei, so you pick your poison with stat investment I guess.

    Hammers are underrated IMO.  It's not that easy to poise stab someone who leads using them unlocked.  Their best move is a multi-hit --> short stunlock (maybe 1 hit before toggle-escape) --> BS though, and some people don't like that.  Still, staggerstab combo from a buffed hammer will kill a lot of builds.  You do need a backup to deal with poke n roll though, unless you're really good at predictive parrying or getting the timing on the trade just right.  The other common responses to hammers are parries (don't let them get set-up parries, and threaten/do BS against parriers) and roll-bs on whiff (they can bait a whiff, but if they roll and you don't attack you can BS them before they exit roll completely).

    The only STR weapons I just can't stand are the ones that are both a) very slow and b) have only vertical attacks.  It's totally impractical to deal with turtles who can literally poke while blocking you and still not get guard broken, then back off or roll out before you can possibly follow up...or really any effective poke or poise-fish strategy.


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    Re: A lesson on being a man.

    Post by skarekrow13 on Mon Jul 15, 2013 4:00 pm

    This guide is pointless sorry to say.  Why?  Because Dark Souls isn't programmed for anyone to fully make a "real man."  You might get close, but it's a fruitless endeavor.  

    Why am I so down on the potential of characters being "real men" in Dark Souls?









    Because only Demon's Souls has Old Spice.  Manly scents for the win!


    Last edited by skarekrow13 on Mon Jul 15, 2013 4:38 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Re: A lesson on being a man.

    Post by Sentiel on Mon Jul 15, 2013 4:33 pm

    I'm rolling with this:
    http://mmdks.com/35mz
    Alternatively, I use it as a Dragonbro and aim for fast roll with heavy weapons and suplement poise with Wolf Ring.
    I use Dragon form only for the roar and damage boost though.

    Fangboar Helm because real men are pigs!
    Havel's Armor because Poise, 'nuff said.
    Havel's Greatshield because f*ck your magic, yer miracles and pyro fetishes.
    Demon's Greataxe because it can pancake and launch armorless pansies at the same time. Try to trade with this!
    Pike because f*ck your ninja flipping and fast rolling.
    Heavy Crossbow because no running away chicken! (So many people do this! O_O)

    I'll admit that it's hard to get a hit with this weapon, but I don't want to use UGS, or wood like everybody else does. UGS spam is cheap and wood is bull-horse-camel excrement. I don't care what anyone says. If I have a giant Axe...that can hardly be called axe, because it's a bloody mass of bones, which can flatten people and requires hell of a strength to wield, not to mention that it crushes with it's shear weight, not with a blade, there's no way some piece of lumberjack leftovers can do similar damage, whilst weighting half of what the axe weights.
    I get that blade vs blunt, but both of these are blunt and one weights a ton, logically, the damage difference shouldn't 30 AR. Instead of raising Axe's damage, I'd lower the wood's damage. It's a tree for Gwyn's sake, while this is made from bona fide demon bones, ripped from their living flesh. It's covered with the blood of those pansy invaders that spammed their shiny banana whatever at me and got pancake'd.

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    Re: A lesson on being a man.

    Post by TheMeInTeam on Mon Jul 15, 2013 5:43 pm

    It's not about the size of your great club.

    It's about where you place it.


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    Re: A lesson on being a man.

    Post by Derpwraith on Mon Jul 15, 2013 5:51 pm

    LunarFog wrote:To my sorrow, I've come to the realization that "head-to-head fighting in Dark Souls" is now something of an oxymoron.  What should be a fight that looks reminiscent of 

    This:

    looks more like 

    this:
     followed by you know what.

    Backstabs and cheerleader cartwheels have become too prominent and respectable fighters are few and far in between.  This will be a guide on how to become a manly fighter that no girl will have to worry about accidentally wearing the same dress to a party as.

    Armor and Equipment weight
    A confident man only moves as fast as he wants to.  What can illustrate your manly steel resolve more than refusing to step out of the way of an attack, or even just a bluff?  A real man should be content with nothing faster than a midroll.  Trade speed for armor and poise and never back down.

    Weapons
    A brutish man will assume that the only weapons a man needs are the biggest objects his manly muscles can pick up.  Maybe they'll think that the only weapon a man needs are his trusty fists.  But brawn isn't the only trait a manly man needs to be a true man.  True men also need class, or brains if you will.  Not so much "class" that they turn into one of those rainbow-colored skinny jeans, hipster glasses, and scarf wearing fruitloops.  But an equal amount of brawn and class will guarantee your success.

    Big weapons are great and a real man should use one definitely, but they also need to predict what kinds of people they will be fighting and plan accordingly.  For example, get a shield with high magic defense to handle magicians.  Have purple moss for people who use poison.  Have a crossbow ready for people who try to run.  Expect backstabbers and counter them with weapons with wide horizontal attacks.
     
    Manly spells?
    The ONLY masculinely acceptable spells are: Power within, and Iron Flesh.  Projectile spells?  Learn to fight.  Sorceries or Miracles?  Those are less points you could invest into being a real man.  Weapon buffs?  How about some assless chaps to go with that glitter on your sword.

    Now jokes aside
    Being a tank-like character is more than just viable.  Trading mobility for poise and defense isn't just a gimmick that you have to struggle to make work.  To be honest, high speed dex characters make you rely on skills, reflexes, and tactics.  While being a slow speed tank makes you rely on planning and being smart.  Slow characters make battles less of a fighting game and more of a real-time-strategy.  You have to be patient, calm, and be properly equipped to win fights.

    Planning out your man-tank
    Planning out tanks efficiently forces you to think a little differently.  Instead of thinking "what do I want to use" you have to think "what will the people I'm fighting use".  Then you have to plan your equipment to both defend against and counter that.  Here are some very common types of characters you should plan against and weapons or tactics that successfully counter them.

    BS fishers - Free-aiming with horizontal-hitting weapons such as greatswords and ultra greatswords.

    Magic spammers - A shield with high magic defense and the timing to roll.  

    Ranged opponents - a cross bow and a shield. 

    Parry spammers and turtlers - Kick and a weapon fast enough to get in a follow up hit

    Touch-and-go rollers - These are the people who hit once, usually with a roller or running attack and then immediately roll away.  One way you can deal with this is to time it.  If you can't time it, you can predict it.  If you know which way they're going to roll, backwards for example, you should be able to think of a way to hit them for example, with a ranged attack or a running attack.

    People in general - Most likely you'll have to rely on trading blows to land an attack.  In which case just make sure you do more damage.
    My character is a woman, your argument is invalid.


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    Re: A lesson on being a man.

    Post by billy_bayonet on Mon Jul 15, 2013 6:34 pm

    im not sure what i have just read....but i want that 5 minutes of my life back


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    Re: A lesson on being a man.

    Post by Carphil on Mon Jul 15, 2013 7:10 pm

    billy_bayonet wrote:im not sure what i have just read....but i want that 5 minutes of my life back

    danm, you're a fast reader :/


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    Re: A lesson on being a man.

    Post by Forum Pirate on Mon Jul 15, 2013 8:16 pm

    billy_bayonet wrote:im not sure what i have just read....but i want that 5 minutes of my life back
    If you look throught the jokes, the point is that tanks are doable, the tactics are just different.
     
    Its all about reading your opponent and being prepared and able to counter anything you face with planning or equipment.
     
    This is different from more typical builds, that can simply fast roll through everything and focus on their strengths (usually speed.)
     
    You must know their strength, and then arrange situations that negate it. (all that swing/movement speed in the world amounts to nothing if you get hitstun bs'd in a trade, magic is pretty much useless against havels shield, bsing is easily punished by unlocked ugs swings, ect.)


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    Re: A lesson on being a man.

    Post by hey its andres on Mon Jul 15, 2013 8:31 pm

    It's not the size of the boat, it's the motion in the ocean.

     
     
    ...but to be a man you need a big [retirement account and the respect of your family].


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    Re: A lesson on being a man.

    Post by befowler on Mon Jul 15, 2013 8:40 pm

    Let's try to keep this at least marginally out of the gutter.

    And as for the glorious great club, I don't think it's the manliest weapon in Dark Souls.  That would be a great club that is on fire.


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    Re: A lesson on being a man.

    Post by billy_bayonet on Mon Jul 15, 2013 8:45 pm

    broadsword


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    Re: A lesson on being a man.

    Post by ResIsBestStat on Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:10 pm

    billy_bayonet wrote:broadsword
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    Re: A lesson on being a man.

    Post by billy_bayonet on Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:14 pm

    lol


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    Re: A lesson on being a man.

    Post by Kiva the wanderer on Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:41 pm



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    Re: A lesson on being a man.

    Post by hey its andres on Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:47 pm

    Hahahahaha okay fine. Dragon King Greataxe is actually not just a "macho" weapon. If you put a buff on it, fire resin looks the coolest, and use the 2h special you can, quite literally, level the playing field.


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    Re: A lesson on being a man.

    Post by Rynn on Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:41 pm

    The dragon king greataxe is almost unusable as a weapon.
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    Re: A lesson on being a man.

    Post by LunarFog on Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:53 pm

    Rynn wrote:The dragon king greataxe is almost unusable as a weapon.

     I use the great axe all the time...  Really it's a make or break weapon depending on whether or not the opponent's shield has high enough stability to block it's R2

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    Re: A lesson on being a man.

    Post by hey its andres on Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:06 am

    Well my first real pvp build used the greataxe and it's not much different from that so...big grin

    All weapons are viable as long as you know how to use them. I've used a notched whip effectively in pvp. These things can be done!


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    Re: A lesson on being a man.

    Post by SirArchmage on Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:23 am

    Andres? As I recall, our last fight was you dancing around my hulking tank as you pointlessly beat against my greatshield and were subsequently smashed into bits by my Greataxe.

    lol!


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    Re: A lesson on being a man.

    Post by hey its andres on Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:43 am

    Actually it was me backstabbing you as you helplessly wondered what on earth had just happened? big hug 

    Ah, even now as I reflect upon it I am reminded of our younger days.

    Either way, you prove my point that greataxes are definitely usable, and not to mention completely bad a--.


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    Re: A lesson on being a man.

    Post by Sentiel on Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:48 am

    Dragon? Pffffffff
    Demon is where it's at when it comes to Greataxes.

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    Re: A lesson on being a man.

    Post by sparkly-twinkly-lizard on Tue Jul 16, 2013 1:06 am

    the one handed r2 move set on the demons great axe is so good for baiting people into getting upswinged... and the stone great axe is actually nice too... it just has the worst damage output of all the greataxes... oh also if you notice an increase in the heavy special weapon usage its probably because of a new move set swapping glitch someone adapted from an already existing glitch... heck this ones pretty graphic so maybe we'll see another patch to fix it...


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    Re: A lesson on being a man.

    Post by TheMeInTeam on Tue Jul 16, 2013 1:08 am

    befowler wrote:Let's try to keep this at least marginally out of the gutter.

    And as for the glorious great club, I don't think it's the manliest weapon in Dark Souls.  That would be a great club that is on fire.

    I have NO IDEA what you're talking about with this gutter?  We're talking about manly weapons here, not drainage systems.

    It's all about spacing and making sure the movements hit the right spot.  Sometimes locking on can help with accurate placement.

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