some quick advice needed

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    e134rr0n
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    some quick advice needed

    Post by e134rr0n on Sat Jul 13, 2013 4:02 pm

    So just a quick question, if anyones got any ideas.

    Im fighting a fella whos in full havels using an obsidian great sword, and as far as the combat goes im for the most part annihilating him, problem is im using dark sword (personal preference don't wanna get into a straight sword debate) and hes getting to 1/3 hp or so and straight up consuming humanity in my face and slash as i might i cant do **** to stop him...

    I got frustrated and admittedly starting spamming WoGs but he managed to dodge i think 2/6 and just healed up again the moment i ran out.

    what could i do differently in this scenario? or am i just outmatched?

    I figure he went minimum stats for the obsidian and everything else into vit/end which seems like a pretty solid build.


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    Re: some quick advice needed

    Post by Animaaal on Sat Jul 13, 2013 4:15 pm

    You'll have to backstab him.

    Humanity heals are pretty punishable if not set up right, and so is the OGS special attack if you're ready for it.


    Don't try and break poise when facing someone in that gear, just roll stab him, and punish his humanity heals with backstabs.

    I know you're tempted to start attacking him when he pops a humanity, but trust me, you'll have enough time to backstab him, especially if his pattern is predictable, ie 2/3 health, then heals.

    Divine Blessings are harder to punish though.
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    Re: some quick advice needed

    Post by LunarFog on Sat Jul 13, 2013 4:23 pm

     Yep.  The only thing to do is go for a backstab.  That's why I usually have a dagger or rapier to switch to.  If you think he's too far away then doublehand your weapon and lay it on him as much as possible.  If you're low on health too you can take the chance to heal up also.


    Another little trick you can do is hold your talisman in your left hand so you can swing and cast WoG at the same time and he won't be able to predict which is coming up.

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    Re: some quick advice needed

    Post by e134rr0n on Sat Jul 13, 2013 5:14 pm

    He had his back in the corner by Ooly town bonfire, couldn't maneuver around for the BS.
    Yeah i do tend to keep my tali on left since im a sunlight blade user. I maybe couldve gotten the kill two handing, ill try that next time. ive been thinking of going gravelord to get greatsword dance, would that interrupt him?


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    Re: some quick advice needed

    Post by LunarFog on Sat Jul 13, 2013 5:33 pm

     I believe that even with 45 dex you wouldn't be able to interrupt someone before they heal with humanity.  But if they corner themselves you should be able to hit them afterwards.

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    Re: some quick advice needed

    Post by e134rr0n on Sat Jul 13, 2013 6:01 pm

    Appreciate the help!

    @Lunar
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    Re: some quick advice needed

    Post by LunarFog on Sat Jul 13, 2013 6:37 pm

     Ah.  So you're aware of my self-imposed reputation?  I will help you as much as I can~


    Regarding spell choices: I wouldn't worry about having 2 hidden bodies if you're going to have ring of fog anyways.  Chameleon is much more useful in more situations.  If you're going to invade a lot, remember that ring of fog won't hide you at all unless you're really far away.  And if you're the host, ring of fog only works in the dark, and even better when you're clothes match the color of the background.  I personally wouldn't use dark fog even though it can be useful for creating a wall between you and your prey.  It just takes too much intelligence you can put into dex instead.


    Regarding weapon choices:  The Dark Silver tracer might not be the best if you have less than 40 dex.  The bandit knife should be doing the same amount of damage and the rapier is about as strong as the two too.  Instead of going with a chaos rapier(which I'm assuming is for head-to-head combat) I would use a shotel instead, but it depends on your playstyle.    Alternatively, you could also use dung bombs, and a composite bow with poison arrows.  You'd be able to keep your distance while they bleed out, and you know that they're going to heal again which gives you enough time to go in for another backstab.  Also, a dark hand would be a great no-weight shield.


    Other notes:  The green blossom's aura(and any other aura to be honest) will give you away if you're trying to use the ring of fog.  Remember you could use and set traps.

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    Re: some quick advice needed

    Post by e134rr0n on Sat Jul 13, 2013 7:53 pm

    All good advice thanks,

    If i want to stick with rapier (never been a big fan of curved sword attack set and i like the range) would you recommend just using that for any head-to-head as well as BS? Then use the extra slot and weight for a bow?

    Also haven't done a whole lot of stealth based pvp in DkS mostly rolled knight-type characters, but in Demons i did a decent amount, is hidden body > RoF in the same way Cloak > Thiefs ring?

    If so i may just drop the RoF for Fav + Prot to get a little more stam.

    As for spells i will drop dark fog than, that was more just for fun to be honest haha.


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    Re: some quick advice needed

    Post by LunarFog on Sat Jul 13, 2013 8:27 pm

    A rapier is more than adequate in going head to head and backstabs.  In all honesty, most "head to head" fights are just who can bs fish or counter bs more efficiently so a rapier is probably one of the best weapons you could use for any melee character.  The only reason i suggested the shotel was because of the R2 that goes through shields.  pretty useful, but you can make do without it.


    I haven't played Demon Souls long enough to get smart in that game, but I can tell you that RoF and Hidden body make you equally as translucent.  Hidden body however, decreases the agro range of monsters more than RoF does(pair hidden body with sleeping dragon ring or Hush and no normal monster will notice you until you touch them).  Hidden body also stops pursuers and homing soul masses from activating, while RoF just decreases the range.


    And if you just want to have fun, remember that there's still poison and toxic cloud mist.  You got to use a pyromancy flame, but at least you don't have to waste any stats on it.

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    Re: some quick advice needed

    Post by reim0027 on Sat Jul 13, 2013 9:41 pm

    The rapier is an awesome weapon. The only thing it lacks is a dead angle. I'll often pair a rapier with a shotel (to use if they turtle).


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    Re: some quick advice needed

    Post by e134rr0n on Sat Jul 13, 2013 10:04 pm

    Thats true, one of the main reasons I like straight swords for general pvp is the dash slash.
    A lot of people dont realize how far the hit are extends to your back right so its perfect for turtles using thrusting weapons. Clearly not as effective as a GS's dash attack for dead angling but less expected so its easy to catch people off guard.

    Ideally with this build ill be able to finish them before they can get their shield up haha. Already having trouble with the centipede at sl 20 tho haha... 1 hit into the lava and im down for the count:crying:


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    Re: some quick advice needed

    Post by LunarFog on Sat Jul 13, 2013 11:31 pm

    If they do turtle, just poison them and be patient.  they''ll eventually either let the poison kill them off, or more likely, use a humanity and give you a chance to backstab.

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    Re: some quick advice needed

    Post by e134rr0n on Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:49 am

    ehh so i wasted that roll being a little dumb haha...
    spent all this time working on chaos rapier but spent my soul levels on dex.
    Think i must've killed some brain cells at the bar yesterday devil
    Anywho trying again, so im planning to hang around burg + parish with this guy probably, so brownish armor would be best as far as RoF/hidden body go? Thinking hollow thiefs stuff


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    Re: some quick advice needed

    Post by TheMeInTeam on Sun Jul 14, 2013 4:36 am

    If someone is healing in your face you want to stagger them or preferably BS.  If BS isn't possible, then stagger is all you have.

    Full havel's takes 3 2h hammer r1's to stagger; pretty doable during a humanity heal if you're right in his face.  Reinforced club is great for that because it inflicts bleed too.

    Speaking of bleed, that's probably your best bet, especially if we're talking wolf + havel's set + humanity in corner. (DB in corner might not be doable).


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    Re: some quick advice needed

    Post by Pilgrim34 on Sun Jul 14, 2013 1:37 pm

    TheMeInTeam wrote:If someone is healing in your face you want to stagger them or preferably BS.  If BS isn't possible, then stagger is all you have.

    Full havel's takes 3 2h hammer r1's to stagger; pretty doable during a humanity heal if you're right in his face.  Reinforced club is great for that because it inflicts bleed too.

    Speaking of bleed, that's probably your best bet, especially if we're talking wolf + havel's set + humanity in corner. (DB in corner might not be doable).

     Agree with that, using a bleed weapon would probably be the way to go.

    Also Havel's armour has very low poison (and toxic) resistance so if you have dung pies, a gravelord sword or the right handed r2 of dark silver tracer you could easily get him toxic whilst he pops a humanity. Most opponents will make more mistakes when their health is being drained by toxic and if they attempt to menu switch to some blossom it's probably a good backstab opportunity.


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    Re: some quick advice needed

    Post by Sentiel on Sun Jul 14, 2013 1:50 pm

    If someone with high Poise heals in front of you, the best thing to do is backstab them. However if you cannot backstab them, perhaps because of a wall covering their back, use kick.

    Kick staggers anyone, regardless of their Poise and will cancel any ongoing actions. If you have a fast weapon, like a katana, you can manage to do a R1 attack for extra damage after you kicked them and still have enough time to kick them again, should they decide to try and heal again. This way, it's only a matter of time before the healer dies, or changes tactics.

    Another option, since you have WoG, is to use WoG, or Force, while facing away from them. That will stagger them and pull them towards you, opening them to backstabs, even if they got their back to a wall. This also works with Dragon Roar.

    These work on Humanity healing. Estus Flask is faster, but heals less. The best thing to do is, again, backstab, or outdamage the healing of the Estus Flask. That is pretty easy to do, especially if you have Bleed, or Str weapons, not to mention spells.

    Divine Blessings heal is a problem. It's way too fast to be interrupted, especially if the healer is clever and can't be outdamaged, unless the healer has very low Vitality. The best thing to do here is to use chain backstabs, or stagger backstabs. Both allow very hard to interrupt consecutive backstabs. If all else fails, try to use gravity. Kicking, or pushing the healer from a ledge towards death by splatter.


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