Reworking Status Effects to be Viable in PvE/PvP

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    SadPanda
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    Reworking Status Effects to be Viable in PvE/PvP

    Post by SadPanda on Thu Jul 11, 2013 2:20 pm

    Since I always like to play as stealthy rogue-like characters in RPG's, I found it disappointing that in Dark Souls, poison and bleed were hardly viable in a lot of situations. They rather ended up becoming niches to beat certain areas, like poison arrows on the Silver Knight archers, or bleeding out the Stray Demon.

    After playing Demon's Souls, I found the grief of catching the plague, poisoned, and being bled out at the same time. When all that happens to you, you're worried and screw up a lot.

    Bleed should be whatever the devs think it should be. I prefer Demon's over Dark Souls, but whichever, or whatever new mechanic they think is better.

    Poison should be as it is, quite self explanatory.

    Now Toxic/Plauge is a difficult one. Because I think it should have a crippling effect, as in the player moves much more slowly than usual. Rather than a stronger poison.

    Also, I'm pretty sure I've said this before, but I want weapons that instantly inflict status effects if you get a critical.


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    Re: Reworking Status Effects to be Viable in PvE/PvP

    Post by Sentiel on Thu Jul 11, 2013 2:27 pm

    Sorry, but in DeS, everybody had 99 stacks of Dark Moon Grass, which made all status ailments irrelevant.
    In DkS, we have a Bleed cancel in i-frames and one Blooming Moss takes care of the rest.

    In both games, these status ailments are a threat only on low levels. Bring a Poison build to Parish on some low SL and you'll see hosts run in circles, panicking out of their minds. Same with DeS and Baby's Nail.

    I suspect Dark Souls II to be the same. Status ailments will only threat you early one. They'll move to be a bother later and when you reach the end, you won't even remember there being any.

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    Re: Reworking Status Effects to be Viable in PvE/PvP

    Post by SadPanda on Thu Jul 11, 2013 2:39 pm

    Yeah, but the point is to make them viable even for higher level situations.


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    Re: Reworking Status Effects to be Viable in PvE/PvP

    Post by TheWanderer101 on Thu Jul 11, 2013 2:42 pm

    Oh god horrible memories of trolls casting poison, pluage, and rust while poking me with the scrapeing spear are coming back. However in Dks the poison/toxic/rust clouds were a joke i feel they should be powered up a bit in DksII.
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    Re: Reworking Status Effects to be Viable in PvE/PvP

    Post by TheMeInTeam on Thu Jul 11, 2013 5:28 pm

    If poison scaled somehow, it would be a lot more threatening.

    Status was *very* relevant to demon's souls PvE, but is less so (though not completely irrelevant) in DS.  In demon's a lot of bosses could be locked from attacking you and poisoned or just arrowed to death lol.


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    Re: Reworking Status Effects to be Viable in PvE/PvP

    Post by LunarFog on Thu Jul 11, 2013 6:48 pm

    I would have loved if status scaled with resistance.

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    Re: Reworking Status Effects to be Viable in PvE/PvP

    Post by SadPanda on Thu Jul 11, 2013 7:05 pm

    LunarFog wrote:I would have loved if status scaled with resistance.
    You are a God among men. Never thought of that.


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    Re: Reworking Status Effects to be Viable in PvE/PvP

    Post by LunarFog on Thu Jul 11, 2013 7:07 pm

    SadPanda wrote:
    LunarFog wrote:I would have loved if status scaled with resistance.
    You are a God among men. Never thought of that.

     As I should be.

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    Re: Reworking Status Effects to be Viable in PvE/PvP

    Post by steveswede on Thu Jul 11, 2013 7:09 pm

    SadPanda wrote:Yeah, but the point is to make them viable even for higher level situations.

    They are viable, they pressure your opponent to make a mistake.  I have won on many occasions in PvP using poison arrows/weapons and bleed.  I honestly don't see any problem with poison and bleed, the likes of charcoal and gold pine resin are items that are not viable at high levels.  Applying those to weapons at high levels become meaningless.
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    Re: Reworking Status Effects to be Viable in PvE/PvP

    Post by LunarFog on Thu Jul 11, 2013 7:11 pm

    steveswede wrote:
    They are viable, they pressure your opponent to make a mistake.  I have won on many occasions in PvP using poison arrows/weapons and bleed.  I honestly don't see any problem with poison and bleed, the likes of charcoal and gold pine resin are items that are not viable at high levels.  Applying those to weapons at high levels become meaningless.

     The common argument here is that people  either don't have the patience or the capabilities to last long enough in a fight to give the poison some use.

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    Re: Reworking Status Effects to be Viable in PvE/PvP

    Post by Serious_Much on Fri Jul 12, 2013 7:20 am

    Well if they fix the rolling through the bleed bar maybe :/

    If they make status more relevant, they'd need to bring back mercury and tearing weapons so that it's a proper option.

    I always hesitated with status ailments even in demons due to boss resistance. If a boss has resistance and you don't have back up weapon you're screwed. I could see it working in pvp (with a boost of scaling) but in pve it won't ever really be that viable.. Unless all bosses succumb to everything, in which case pve becomes a mature cheddar factory.


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    Re: Reworking Status Effects to be Viable in PvE/PvP

    Post by Rynn on Fri Jul 12, 2013 7:30 am

    Anyone whom watched my item only playthrough of dark souls would know that all bosses, except the four kings, can be bled out, toxic'd, and poisoned...
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    Re: Reworking Status Effects to be Viable in PvE/PvP

    Post by Serious_Much on Fri Jul 12, 2013 7:53 am

    What so you can do all status effects to all bosses besides four kings? What about kalameet and other DLC bosses? Pretty sure iron golem doesn't succumb to all of the either

     Speaking of which, we need a list of which bosses succumb to what on the wiki. Surprised there isn't one already..


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    Re: Reworking Status Effects to be Viable in PvE/PvP

    Post by buzzgud on Fri Jul 12, 2013 1:02 pm

    I personally love bleed in PVP, even though people do roll cancel. Although if someone doesn't, and even though I use a very slow washing pole, if I do connect enough times in a row I normally tear others down pretty quickly. It's just a matter of personal opinion.

    When you get hit with bleed effect though I think you should tear through a certain percentage of your health, then bleed too, like lose an amount of health, so a combo of DeS and DaS, it would be awesome. happy

    As far as Poision/Toxic goes? Poison, keep it the same... except maybe add a coughing sound once in a while, hehe.

    Toxic, I like the whole idea of being slowed down, maybe being slouched, that'd be cool. It'd be crippling in PVP though and would definitely be WAY to OP, kind of would make it hard if you could get your hands on a toxic spell, item and could use it on someone else.. I don't think PVP matches would last long.


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    Re: Reworking Status Effects to be Viable in PvE/PvP

    Post by Rynn on Sat Jul 13, 2013 12:41 am

    Serious_Much wrote:What so you can do all status effects to all bosses besides four kings? What about kalameet and other DLC bosses? Pretty sure iron golem doesn't succumb to all of the either

     Speaking of which, we need a list of which bosses succumb to what on the wiki. Surprised there isn't one already..

     -all- bosses except the four kings, manus, iron golem, and Quelagg were poisonable.
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    Re: Reworking Status Effects to be Viable in PvE/PvP

    Post by Serious_Much on Sat Jul 13, 2013 12:52 am

    Rynn wrote:
    Serious_Much wrote:What so you can do all status effects to all bosses besides four kings? What about kalameet and other DLC bosses? Pretty sure iron golem doesn't succumb to all of the either

     Speaking of which, we need a list of which bosses succumb to what on the wiki. Surprised there isn't one already..

     -all- bosses except the four kings, manus, iron golem, and Quelagg were poisonable.

     and what about bleed?

    btw your info could be really useful. If you created a page and link it into the bosses page, or maybe just give the into to me I could create pages. I'm sure it's info worthy of the wiki!


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    Re: Reworking Status Effects to be Viable in PvE/PvP

    Post by Rynn on Sat Jul 13, 2013 1:05 am

    I wasn't playing a bleeding character, this test was done on an item only challenge, so I went out of my way to poison/toxic bosses to make my life easier.

    I don't have any logical reason to believe that any boss that can be poisoned couldn't be bled though, however it's difficult to bleed out bosses with how much bleed res most have.

    Sif bleeds after 20 or so rapid katana hits, witnessed when playing with two friends whom had +0 katana's.

    I'd love to get more info on bleed, but I'd need two friends with bandits knifes so we could spam attacks and bleed out efficiently.
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    Re: Reworking Status Effects to be Viable in PvE/PvP

    Post by Sentiel on Sat Jul 13, 2013 7:15 am

    Rynn wrote: -all- bosses except the four kings, manus, iron golem, and Quelagg were poisonable.
    Including DLC bosses?
    Cos I can't get any Aux on any of them. Maybe Sanctuary Guardian, but never bled out, or poisoned Arty, Manus, nor Kalameet.


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