I'd like NG+ areas

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    benny-the-jew
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    I'd like NG+ areas

    Post by benny-the-jew on Wed Jul 10, 2013 12:14 am

    Just like the title says, I'd like to see areas that are inaccessible until New Game+.  Not sure how'd they do it, maybe a key of some sort you can only get from defeating the last boss, something like that.  They should, though, make the areas visible on New Game, so it totally teases you and just makes you go, "Dang, I'd sure like to go there," sort of like some of the towers and cities you can see off in the distance in the Demon's Souls levels. 
    The weapons/armor/spells in DKS are nice, but there's nothing I use in any real capacity, but I'd like MORE reason to play New Game+.  I won't lie, I got to Ornstein and Smough on New Game+ and after literally 50 tries (not in one sitting--I went to the Tomb to get humanity so I could summon Solaire, farmed 50, went to Anor Londo, failed Every. Stinking. Time.) I gave up on NG+.  Ornstein+Smough=ROADBLOCK.  New Areas, New BOSSES (grrr/yay), New Gear, New Game+.

    I think multiplayer-only areas would be a neat idea, too.  I already don't do much multiplayer, as I really like the "crushing loneliness" feeling, but I'm also one of those grumpy bastards who hates having their game interrupted, even if it is a core game mechanic (which it is.)  One of my favorite parts of the Souls games is the exploration and the cool locations and something like that would definitely tempt me out of solitary: the risk of being invaded vs. the reward of new sights, sounds, and possibly gear.

    EDIT: also NG+-only NPCs.


    Last edited by benny-the-jew on Wed Jul 10, 2013 12:21 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : clarity, spelling, yadda yadda yadda)
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    Re: I'd like NG+ areas

    Post by SadPanda on Wed Jul 10, 2013 1:29 am



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    Re: I'd like NG+ areas

    Post by Myztyrio on Wed Jul 10, 2013 4:59 am

    This would destroy the easy(ish) process of making new pvp and co-op and quirk characters. It'd require most any character to complete the game at least once, and ruin a lot of the things I like to do with DkS.


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    Re: I'd like NG+ areas

    Post by TheWanderer101 on Wed Jul 10, 2013 5:28 am

    I would much rather have enemies spawn in different places as well as them having new moves.
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    Re: I'd like NG+ areas

    Post by twigsterxd on Wed Jul 10, 2013 9:52 am

    This would be ok as long as there is NOTHING needed for any builds. By the end of the game, your build, (set up wise not sl), should be completed. It would be senseless to have stuff like slabs or certain needed items locked away until ng+
    But then again, it wouldn't make sense having areas inaccessible until ng+ because how would it fall within the adventure. It would be like playing 2 totally different games on 1 cd. Too expensive for FROM to do that.
    Maybe locking them away until certain requirements are fulfilled like killing an arch demon in Demon Souls. But not having areas accessible the whole playthru may not work


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    Re: I'd like NG+ areas

    Post by twilightwarwolf on Wed Jul 10, 2013 10:26 am

    Maybe it can be more choiced based. So like you said have inaccessible area's but yor choices allow where you can or cannot go. Still i think the idea og ng+ areas could work they just have to do it right. Like for example maybe th ending doesn't seem right so you go through and you find other area's that are only in ng+ and then when you beat the game you see the real ending.


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    Re: I'd like NG+ areas

    Post by twigsterxd on Wed Jul 10, 2013 10:41 am

    But, would it reset in ng++ or are they only inaccessible in 1st run?


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    Re: I'd like NG+ areas

    Post by Seignar on Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:18 am

    NG+ areas only serve as motivation to continue into NG+ and nothing else, but it would be better if they made more motivation via one-time weapons and more castings. One thing they could do is make it so the Final Boss drops a key. Said key opens a variety of doors through the game that have ores and souls behind them.

    But, as for optional tough areas? I would prefer some of those dungeon crawling multi-floor dungeons. I think it could be represented by a giant tower at a mountain's peak in the distance, looking like background, accessible once you do some secret stuff, then warping to it. In this case, since you can access it in the first playthrough, it would be much easier to balance the drops (NG+ only drops kind of need to be better by default).

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    Re: I'd like NG+ areas

    Post by Emergence on Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:25 am

    Seignar wrote:NG+ areas only serve as motivation to continue into NG+ and nothing else, but it would be better if they made more motivation via one-time weapons and more castings. One thing they could do is make it so the Final Boss drops a key. Said key opens a variety of doors through the game that have ores and souls behind them.

    But, as for optional tough areas? I would prefer some of those dungeon crawling multi-floor dungeons. I think it could be represented by a giant tower at a mountain's peak in the distance, looking like background, accessible once you do some secret stuff, then warping to it. In this case, since you can access it in the first playthrough, it would be much easier to balance the drops (NG+ only drops kind of need to be better by default).

    If you are referring to something similar to the Everfall in Dragon's Dogma, that could be interesting. Hard to place it lorewise and Souls series wise but fun if they figure it out.


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    Re: I'd like NG+ areas

    Post by Seignar on Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:41 am

    I was thinking something more similar to Persona 3's Tartarus. Everfall doesn't quite "fit" souls since you go anywhere you like. Floors start up with tough enemies of progressing difficulty, every so floors there is a mini-boss (although I don't suggest it would be alone) and the top floor is the Boss, the "Secret Final Boss", that boss that requires exceptional skill and execution to defeat!

    However, unlike other traditional optional final areas, there would be no final weapon. There would be a reward,a unique weapon, but not overpowered!

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    Re: I'd like NG+ areas

    Post by SadPanda on Wed Jul 10, 2013 1:47 pm

    A way they could do that would be a simple tower-scale level with increasingly difficult enemies. If you've played God of War: Chains of Olympus, imagine Persephone's Tower.

    For those who haven't, it's a large tower with a ton of mini bosses and treasure.


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    Re: I'd like NG+ areas

    Post by TheWanderer101 on Wed Jul 10, 2013 2:17 pm

    I dont know about this whole arena concept it doesn't really fit the Souls style but who knows it could be cool I just am sceptical about anything drastically new to the souls games haha. I remember being pissed they added a jump option in dark souls but now i couldn't imagine a souls title without it.
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    Re: I'd like NG+ areas

    Post by twigsterxd on Wed Jul 10, 2013 3:03 pm

    Seignar wrote:NG+ areas only serve as motivation to continue into NG+ and nothing else, but it would be better if they made more motivation via one-time weapons and more castings. One thing they could do is make it so the Final Boss drops a key. Said key opens a variety of doors through the game that have ores and souls behind them.

    But, as for optional tough areas? I would prefer some of those dungeon crawling multi-floor dungeons. I think it could be represented by a giant tower at a mountain's peak in the distance, looking like background, accessible once you do some secret stuff, then warping to it. In this case, since you can access it in the first playthrough, it would be much easier to balance the drops (NG+ only drops kind of need to be better by default).

    I like this idea.
    Also, I think E has dogma on the brain these days LOL. Have you started your DeS run yet?
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    Re: I'd like NG+ areas

    Post by benny-the-jew on Mon Jul 15, 2013 7:28 pm

    I can see the problems that arise with this idea, but I just want something other than new weapons/spells/armor in NG+. Nothing new is discovered, no new story tidbits (aside from the gear descriptions); not being huge into the PvP myself, I personally feel no reason to worry with NG+.
    I dig the ever-loving HELL out of the multi-floor challenge dungeon idea, though.  I would like to see one with a super-tough final boss, and one with infinite floors and you just go for as along as you can.
    I just want something new, some reason to actually play NG+ rather than what I do now, which is just create a new character and play NG again.
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    Re: I'd like NG+ areas

    Post by Serious_Much on Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:58 pm

    I'd rather have different variations of levels already present, or maybe even extensions of those areas. Extra levels for NG+ is all well and good, but have the bonus for all playthroughs is better


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    Re: I'd like NG+ areas

    Post by phastings on Tue Jul 16, 2013 3:36 am

    This is an idea I have thought much about, and hope From is thinking similar things with NG+. Now, perhaps having an area that is only accessible NG+ is not the best way to go about it, but maybe having an area that is optional yet so damn difficult you may need certain weapons/armor maxed, which can only be maxed thru NG+. That way atleast the area is not blocked so you can get the full experience 1st playthru.

    I think they would do well to include more elements into NG+ and should certainly make it tie in with the story/lore of the game. Demon's souls kinda did it with the evil ending when the old one told you to go forth to other worlds to claim more souls, but ive always felt they could build upon the experience by adding more depth to each NG.

    Ive said it in other threads, but what about having special equipment that is obtainable 1st game, but scales solely with number of newgames completed, maybe maxing at 4 or 5? It would be a few weapons that are for the true hardcore players. 
     Maybe they are not the best for pve, but are powerful when used as a co-op phantom or invader. Maybe not those exact perameters but something along those lines. Of course, these weapons would have to have a soul lvl requirement to prevent low lvl gankers praying on noobs, but would be a cool way to add value and incentive to beating the game multiple times


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    Re: I'd like NG+ areas

    Post by Seignar on Tue Jul 16, 2013 6:54 pm

    I think what would be best for NG+ is multiple End Game weapons:

    To put an example. When you complete the game, you'll recieve a "Holy Ore" or O*, which can be used to ascend a "Rusty" weapon (There is one *secret* rusty weapon for each weapon class) into a Legend Weapon or L*. Legend Weapons are each End-game weapons with special properties. For example: L* Greatsword is extremely light; L* Dagger has a special attack that make them as long as halberds; L* Bow causes explosions, etc.

    This way, people will have incentive for multiple playthroughs since you can only get 1 per each, there will even be some more further playthroughs with the improvements on Dual-wielding (Dual-wielding 2 Greatswords for little weight, oh yeah!), of course, I say that they should still be balanced. We could even have Rusty Armor and Rusty Spells (lol).

    The main problem tho, is that most of the worthwhile "rewards" for completion will have to be balanced for PvP, so there are limits to their powers.

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    Re: I'd like NG+ areas

    Post by Undiscovery on Wed Jul 31, 2013 5:52 pm

    I wouldn't go about making equips for NG+only-material for build purposes, and furthermore there probably won't be a large amount of players with characters in NG+++etc. to even really make those equips useful, and even so, others would have a similiar badass equip. It just seems stale to me. I think expanded dialogue should be NG+ material as well as areas.
    I always feel like my character isn't actually my character until NG+ anyway (with my build complete I feel more like my character has significance or was pre-hero before the game started not just a random schmuck.) That being said, for anyone who feels the same, I think they should replace the tutorial NG+ with hidden pre-adventure content that somehow adds the dialogue to making you feel like an actual person in the world. Alternatively have classes mean more in dialogue, for example if my character is from Vinheim Dragon School he should be familiar with NPC's also from there like Griggs and Ricket, or if he's from Astora he should be already familiar with Oscar and Solaire. Can you dig it?Z

    Anyway, I like the idea, just no NG+ equips, just new areas for challenge and adventuring only IMO. If anything give it Lore content instead.


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    Re: I'd like NG+ areas

    Post by phastings on Wed Jul 31, 2013 7:07 pm

    ^why not have NG scaling gear? Even if fewer would seek to obtain and max them, it would add another level of incentive for diehards like a badge of honor.

    Perhaps they are of equal power with standard maxed gear, but change color w each upgrade and do not necessarily scale in power, but provide some kind of indicator on how many times you've beat the game for both invading and co-op recognition.

    Stale is a term better used for the current scenario in DkS with the lack depth in NG+ aside from tougher enemies.


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    Re: I'd like NG+ areas

    Post by Undiscovery on Wed Jul 31, 2013 8:18 pm

    As things are now can't really be called stale as they are the standards, only when you compare it can it be stale. And compared to as is, I personally don't find that an enthralling aspect. I've gotten to NG+7 in DeS out of pure addiction to the game, not because I actually liked going that deep. I've gotten to NG+2 in DaK because well, as you said, there really is a lack of incentive, I just don't think a weapon scaling is proper incentive, that being said I'm also no Hardcore Souls player either so I can admit whole-heatedly that the concept just doesn't interest me, not that it's a bad idea. I and most other 'average' players don't PvP that high, and most wouldn't PvE that high for a weapon upgrade that they will only beable to use with a few other elite players, I imagine.

    My main point is it's really just catering to the hardcore fans not everyone, and as such will only give hardcore players more incentive, players who will probably get to NG+7 regardless of that incentive, so it's just redundant to me. May be ring equips or cool little nifty consumables. I'm just saying I think more actual adventure and dialogue would be the most rewarding route to go.

    However, in place of your idea, a neat 'prestige' concept could be used instead for NG+'s conquered, with some kind of access to more inconsequential items and gear. May be an ability to paint your own equipment and the like.


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    Re: I'd like NG+ areas

    Post by phastings on Wed Jul 31, 2013 8:45 pm

    I hear ya. I don't want to diss DkS by calling NG stale, But compared to DeS there is less stuff to go after since most of it is available first playthru (boss souls having much more limited options). btw I wouldn't call yourself an average player after NG+7ing DeS tho lol, that aint no casual cakewalk.

    The way I look at it is this: Demons souls was a game made for hardcore gamers, who helped spread the word and praise. Dark souls is a byproduct of that success, and made for those same fans, so why not add some more reward strictly catering to those that got the game to where it is now? It's the Souls philosophy.

    Tho there could be many ways to amp replayability in NG, but one aspect id like to see is one that translates as the devs saying "thanks, this is for you, hardcore fans."


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    Re: I'd like NG+ areas

    Post by Cronotis on Wed Jul 31, 2013 9:10 pm

    Gear and spells should all be obtainable and fully upgradable in NG for the sake of PVP balance.  I really don't want to hear cries of "The NG+7 ****sword is OP!"

    There are already some reasons to go into NG+ in DkS.  Want a Chaos Blade and Fury Sword?  NG+  Honestly if you're playing through for the first time, without any sort of guide, and you want to obtain all of the weapons and experience all of the NPC dialogue it's going to take several playthroughs.

    That said I'm sure there are other incentives to play NG+ that From could include.  Some new NPC dialogue referencing the twisted nature of time in the world and hinting of a knowledge that you've been here before?  Or maybe something along the lines of the new cutscene for Sif if you saved him in the DLC, but make it tied to a condition during the game's final moments.  They could also just create a lot more situational occurances, similar to having to choose what weapon to make with a boss soul, but more story related.

    I also wouldn't mind seeing some combat changes in NG+, beyond everything having more HP and doing more damage.  Additional enemies, perhaps some black phantoms, maybe new attack patterns.  I'm not sure any of that would work though, if they tried to have those types of things increasing all the way through to NG+7.


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    Re: I'd like NG+ areas

    Post by Undiscovery on Wed Jul 31, 2013 9:49 pm

    phastings wrote:I hear ya. I don't want to diss DkS by calling NG stale, But compared to DeS there is less stuff to go after since most of it is available first playthru (boss souls having much more limited options). btw I wouldn't call yourself an average player after NG+7ing DeS tho lol, that aint no casual cakewalk.

    The way I look at it is this: Demons souls was a game made for hardcore gamers, who helped spread the word and praise. Dark souls is a byproduct of that success, and made for those same fans, so why not add some more reward strictly catering to those that got the game to where it is now? It's the Souls philosophy.

     I agree completely, Demons gave me a reason to go to +4, at least. After that I couldn't stop because I knew all the maps, lore, locations, and everything there was to know, so it was just a challenge of combat at that point. My +7 was eventual as I had a first character sl 45 stuck on 3-2 with 55 hrs. That's when I figured out I could scale weapons and the importance of my stats so I made a new one, a spellsword, that surpassed and beat it in less than half that time. Than I made a real solid adjudicator build (Shrine Miracles + Max Health Regen + Cursed Clever) I took to +7, he pwned PvE and PvP. It still took a LOT of patience mind you, haha.

    I understand where you're going though, definately. It should reward its very nature, but if you're going to do NG scaling that way you need to create a staircase of incentives to motivate less hardcore players to convert. V

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    Yeah, I've shared many of those similar suggestions on other threads. I like the idea of more and tougher enemies especially black phantoms, expanding dialogue and the core adventure as a whole for NG+'s


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