Weapon upgrading for a noob.

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    Cirick

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    Weapon upgrading for a noob.

    Post by Cirick on Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:35 am

    I've been making my way through the beginning of the game fairly well, as a knight. I am very new to the nuances of the game, like how I should be upgrading my weapon. At the moment I'm using my Drake sword, but I'd like to know at what point I should ditch it (I'm at the Gaping Dragon fight), and what weapon to go with, what to ascend it to, or if I should at all. I play standard sword-and-board and I'd like a wep that I can  continue on like that. I suppose I'm planing on going with a strength heavy build.

    As the title suggests I'm fairly new and don't know where to go equipment-wise or stat-wise from here and don't want to move too far forward without knowing where I'm going. Thanks for any help happy
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    Re: Weapon upgrading for a noob.

    Post by wretchedsausage on Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:55 am

    The best way to choose which weapon you will be using is to find which one you like the most. EVERY weapon in the game can be used effectively, so find something that you like, and stick with it. As you are planning on creating a strength build, weapons which scale with Strength are the best for you. Weapon scaling is where your stats effect the amount of damage your weapon does, depending on which stats the weapon scales with, and how many points you have in those stats. http://darksoulswiki.wikispaces.com/Weapons here is a link to a weapons list, with each weapon's stat requirements, weight, scaling, etc. 

    When you find  weapon that you like, make sure you have the stat requirements to use it(keep in mind that 2-handing a weapon will reduce the stat requirements). You're up to the Gaping Dragon, so I would recommend that you upgrade your chosen weapon to at least +5 using titanite shards at Andre the Blacksmith in the Undead Parish. If you don't have enough shards, you can buy some from him. 

    To get an idea of what is required to upgrade a weapon further than +5, here is a link which should help explain: http://darksoulswiki.wikispaces.com/Upgrades

    It would be easier for us to help you to make your build if you could post a link of what you have so far. https://mugenmonkey.com/darksouls/ This is a great site which lets you plan your build. Once you have made your build so far, click on 'minify' near the bottom of the page, and paste the link here. This will allow other people to see what you have already done, and make it easier for them to give you tips on how to improve. 

    I hope this helps, and I'm happy to elaborate or explain things better if you are confused or need clarification.


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    Re: Weapon upgrading for a noob.

    Post by Hart on Tue Jul 09, 2013 5:02 am

    [rubs hands together] Well, for standard sword and board (very nice little saying) I would say go with a basic longsword.
    Its a nice standard weapon, good speed, good damage and a very nice moveset so its very newbie-friendly. To obtain it you can farm the Hollows in the Undead Burg, and possibly (don't quote me here) buy it from the merchant here.
    At the same time I would suggest that whenever you find yourself looping an area for whatever reason (item farming and such) you switch out to different weapons, just because they all have a different feel to them and so on, so you're bound to eventually find a favorite.
    In terms of ascension, it depends on whether you plan on raising an etheral stat and using magic (INT or FTH) to buff your weapon. If this is the case then I would recommend just keeping it standard and going to +15. If you don't plan on using magic, then I would personally choose to ascend it to Chaos Fire, reasons being damage bonus and AFAIK the final boss has a weakness to fire but resistance to lightning (the next best elemental damage) so you'll be able to carry this weapon right through to endgame.
    In terms of the when, IMO you should be dropping your Drake Sword about now and finding and upgrading yourself a longsword (or other weapon that takes your fancy) to +5 ish.

    EDIT: Well as usual the Aussies stole the gold from NZ. Still gonna post cause it might be helpful lol.


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    Re: Weapon upgrading for a noob.

    Post by wretchedsausage on Tue Jul 09, 2013 5:17 am

    Hart wrote:[rubs hands together] Well, for standard sword and board (very nice little saying) I would say go with a basic longsword.
    Its a nice standard weapon, good speed, good damage and a very nice moveset so its very newbie-friendly. To obtain it you can farm the Hollows in the Undead Burg, and possibly (don't quote me here) buy it from the merchant here.

    The Undead merchant in the Undead Burg does not sell the Longsword, but Andre the Blacksmith in the Undead Parish does

    Too slow, AND you were wrong; you're slipping Hart, you're slipping...


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    Re: Weapon upgrading for a noob.

    Post by Sentiel on Tue Jul 09, 2013 5:23 am

    Hello and welcome to this fine forum.

    Drake Sword is a great early weapon.
    Ditch it when you're not satisfied with it's damage anymore.
    If you're at Gaping Dragon, you can already make stronger weapons than the Drake Sword, but they'll require some farming.

    In the Depths bonfire area, there are those creepy slime blob things. Those drop Large and Green titanite Shards. You can also find the Large Ember in the area with Butchers. Bring the Ember to the blacksmith Andre in Undead Parish and he will alow you to upgrade weapons to +10 and to Raw +5.

    One fully upgraded weapon in these paths will require around 8-9 titanite Shards and 9 Large titanite Shards. It's safe to just go with 10 of each. You can buy the normal titanite Shards directly from Andre (800 Souls per one), or farm them from enemies in Undead Parish.

    When you get there, upgrade the weapon/s of your choice to +10. Ignore Raw. Raw gives you some instant damage, but will be useless as you level up, while the +10 weapon can be later upgraded to +15 and will stay for you the entire game.

    As for the weapons. When you open the weapons menu, you can see some stand alone letters below the damage numbers. Those are scaling letters. They start from "S" - being the best and end with "E" - being the lowest.Weapons scale with Strength, Dexterity, Intelligence and Faith, respectively, as the letters go. That means you're looking for a weapon that has at least C in the first letter field. Those are Strength weapons. If the weapon has the same letter in first two fields, you can use that as well. However, don't use weapons with letters in the last two fields as they require Intelligence, or Faith.

    Good early weapons are the Mace (purchasable), Morning Star (hidden in Firelink Shrine), Reinforced Club (purchasable), Claymore (on the bridge with big red dragon), Zweihander (in the cemetery in the Firelink Shrine). After you beat the Gaping Dragon and venture forth, you will be able to farm Large Club and find Butcher Knife and Great Club, which are superb Str weapons.
    If you manage to cut off Gaping Dragons tail, you will get a great Str weapon, but it will require a LOT of Str to use.

    As for Stats.

    Vitality raises your max HP.
    Endurance raises the amount of things you can equip and remain agile and raises your Stamina.
    Attunement raises the number of spells you can equip.
    Strength is your muscles and is used to wield all weapons and to scale off with Str weapons, like Axes, Hammers and such.
    Dexterity is your agility and works exactly like Strength, but for quick weapons, like Rapiers, Katanas and such.
    Resistance is a joke of a stat that should never be raised, because it does nothing.
    Intelligence allows you to use powerful spells and is used for weapon scaling.
    Faith allows you to use Miracles, that heal and buff you and is used for weapon scaling.

    Your stats depend on what you wish to make and what yu plan to do with your character further on. Most players focus on stopping on SL 100 for PvP, but since this is your first time, you should just enjoy the game and don't stress over details too much. If you really want to know. Most stats stop scaling efficiently at 40 with few exceptions. Those being Vitality, which stops being efficient at 50. As a Str character, you might want to go as far as to put 50 in Str as well. While this won't get you any extra damage, it will allow you to use all Str weapons with one hand, except for one (which isn't worth it).

    I'm making a Str build for PvP as well and go with these stats.

    Vit - 45
    Att - 8
    End - 40
    Str - 50
    Dex - 10
    Res - 11
    Int - 8
    Faith - 8

    You can try something like this as well, it will be good for PvE and PvP as well. ^^

    Hope this helped you. Have fun with Dark Souls. cheers

    EDIT:
    I intentionally avoided using links, even to our wiki, to eliminate the chances of spoilering the game for you.

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    Re: Weapon upgrading for a noob.

    Post by wretchedsausage on Tue Jul 09, 2013 5:30 am

    Sentiel wrote:I intentionally avoided using links, even to our wiki, to eliminate the chances of spoilering the game for you.

     Cirick, I don't think my links will contain too many spoilers, but if you are concerned about them that's fine, just don't use them. Mugenmonkey doesn't have any spoilers, unless you count being able to see every weapon and armour piece in the game.


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    Re: Weapon upgrading for a noob.

    Post by Sentiel on Tue Jul 09, 2013 5:35 am

    wretchedsausage wrote:
    Sentiel wrote:I intentionally avoided using links, even to our wiki, to eliminate the chances of spoilering the game for you.

     Cirick, I don't think my links will contain too many spoilers, but if you are concerned about them that's fine, just don't use them. Mugenmonkey doesn't have any spoilers, unless you count being able to see every weapon and armour piece in the game.
    I'm the type that considers even that a spoiler.

    If someone showed me all the weapons in DkS II on my first playthrough, I'd actually think of hiring a hitman. A bald one, with a bar code on the back of his head and with grumpy cats face.

    Don't do unto others, as you don't want done to yourself.

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    Re: Weapon upgrading for a noob.

    Post by wretchedsausage on Tue Jul 09, 2013 5:45 am

    I understand, and he has now been appropriately warned.


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    Re: Weapon upgrading for a noob.

    Post by Pilgrim34 on Tue Jul 09, 2013 5:46 am

    As good as chaos weapons are, if you are making a combat only build without any magic then I would recommend to follow the standard weapon upgrade path (ie +15). Elemental tends to be more effective if you are investing points into other stats such as faith and intelligence (you can also buff a standard weapon as well but not an elemental one).

    If swords are your preference then it is important to note that most swords in the game have split scaling (strength and dexterity) so if you are using something like a longsword then remember to put an equal number of points into both strength and dex! If you are using a bow as well then the dexterity points will also give that a nice boost in damage.
    Good luck with your playthrough!


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    Re: Weapon upgrading for a noob.

    Post by Odinbear on Tue Jul 09, 2013 10:04 am

    Pilgrim34 wrote:
    If swords are your preference then it is important to note that most swords in the game have split scaling (strength and dexterity) so if you are using something like a longsword then remember to put an equal number of points into both strength and dex! 

     Ahhhh,  what is this split damage. Guess I misunderstood what a sword with STR= B. and DEX= D. Actually meant.  I was under the impression that the B for strength meant it scaled mainly on strength, but scaled less on dex.  

    Splain it Lucy.  I'm now understanding it this way.  You get you damage modifiers from both STR & DEX.  BUT LESS FROM DEX. if you have only 9 dex and 30 STR  you are not getting the full possible damage output from your weapon.
    I've been looking at it this way for quite a while, when I see an A in strength and a D in Dexterity, I pump the STR up and have been leaving dex alone be ause the scaling is poor.  Doing it wrong, haven't I been?


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    Re: Weapon upgrading for a noob.

    Post by Sentiel on Tue Jul 09, 2013 10:31 am

    If the weapon has C/C scaling, like Claymore has, for example. It's worth raising both Str and Dex to get the best out of the weapon, but if the scaling is B/D, or D/B, don't bother with the D stat. Even if you have both stats on 50, the D will give you 50 AR (at best), which is not worth the investment.

    Claymore on +15 with 40 Str and 10 Dex (minimal Dex to use the weapon), the weapon has 398 AR, but on 40 Str and 40 Dex it has 524 AR. This is because the weapon scales C/C on both stats. Thus investing into both stats is beneficial.

    Now, let's take a Flamberge, which scales for D with Str and for B with Dex. If we start from 40 Str and 40 Dex, the weapon will do 484 AR, but when we reduce the Str to 16 (minimal Str to use the weapon) the AR will become 445.

    So as you can see, leveling up the D related stat in this case is not worth the investment.

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    Re: Weapon upgrading for a noob.

    Post by TheMeInTeam on Tue Jul 09, 2013 10:55 am

    Most swords are "quality" weapons, meaning that if you don't go down an elemental upgrade path, you want a mix of STR and DEX to get good damage from them.  The problem in a regular NG play though is that if you go 27 str and 40 dex (2 handing gives you effectively 40 str for max scaling damage), you won't have much left for endurance (stamina, equip weight) or vitality (HP).

    This is why IMO "sword and board" is not beginner friendly; the choices are that your damage is mediocre, you have limited/no poise and attack rate, or you're a glass cannon.  Once you hit SL 100 or 120, that isn't true anymore and you can stat all of the above up properly and sqeeze in a little for select spells, but we're talking new game+ territory or a TON of farming to reach those kinds of levels.

    The easiest beginner stuff is pure str or dex (or a weapon that's close enough to pure dex) scaling + endurance (glass cannon, but enough damage).  For STR weapons like reinforced club, maxes, battle axe, you can go 27 str 40 end and still get into the 20's in vitality by lvl 55...pretty solid damage output in regular NG without farming.  Dex is harder to match that, but most find dex stronger overall once a build is complete (not sure I agree 100%, but dex is more popular for sure).

    IMO if you really want to go sword and board, uprade down an elemental path for a regular NG, either fire or lightning, or pick a sword that only scales strongly in one stat and raise that (upgrade vitality later in that case).  You get a lightning spear for free in sen's fortress (well, you have to fight a mimic or hit it with lloyd's).  However, lightning is pretty bad vs O&S in anor londo so you'd probably want something like fire longsword +5 at minimum there.  Power within will help any NG run if you have 10 attunement.  You can then dump the stat points from levels into END and VIT, hitting 40 in each by the lvl 50-65 range, which is about where you're likely to wind up in NG without any grinding.


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    Re: Weapon upgrading for a noob.

    Post by Cirick on Tue Jul 09, 2013 12:26 pm

    Thanks for all the replies, I found his super helpful. I ended up grabbing the claymore and starting its upgrades. Just at +7 it's dealing out more than my drake. Ill just write out my present stats ( I'm on a tablet) to see if I'm doing okay. Hopefully I haven't messed anything up.

    Vitality: 17
    Attunement: 10
    Endurance: 17
    Strength: 17
    Dexterity: 16
    Resistance: 10
    Intelligence: 9

    Also I'm using the elite knight armour, most of it upgraded to +1, some pieces +2.
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    Re: Weapon upgrading for a noob.

    Post by TheMeInTeam on Tue Jul 09, 2013 1:12 pm

    Claymore +15 and power within should mop the floor with all NG bosses, if that's the route you want to go.  IIRC it doesn't take long for dex scaling to beat str scaling there especially if you 2hand it.  Look at the character planner (mugenmonkey) to see where you want your stat points.


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