Developers focusing on non-linear, open world. Thoughts?

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    TheMeInTeam
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    Re: Developers focusing on non-linear, open world. Thoughts?

    Post by TheMeInTeam on Wed Jul 17, 2013 4:41 pm

    Back Lot Basher wrote:I like the idea that the world will be open, but they're going to have to incorporate some serious gatepost enemies so players can judge the difficulty of what's ahead.

    And although a lot of people won't like it, logic suggests that if they do this, there will be much more of a quest driven narrative in the beginning.  Fallout 3 was open world, but the main quest acted as a kind of guidepost to take people to areas suited to their level.  DKS would never mimic this outright, but I'm betting that open world means more scripted narrative.

    They know their audience though, and trying to do difficult things out of sequence is the first thing many players would try happy.

    At least I would.  But then, I tried to suicide run New Londo about a dozen times before going up to the burg, even though it was plainly obvious I shouldn't be there yet lol.

    Not too much later, I learned how to actually get through the place at low levels and no transient curse, although the utility of that is limited to the very large ember, which is itself limited to your completing at least a few other areas first anyway (IE you can get it, but it won't do anything at all without the large ember).  I suppose it lets you go to blighttown before taurus demon without the master key, but that's about it ^_^.
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    Re: Developers focusing on non-linear, open world. Thoughts?

    Post by Myztyrio on Thu Jul 18, 2013 7:22 am

    Well they'll have to limit it so you can't simply skip to the last boss(es). I'm sure there will still be a slight guidance similar to DkS, like the bells.


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    Re: Developers focusing on non-linear, open world. Thoughts?

    Post by Marino. on Thu Jul 18, 2013 9:08 am

    I hope there isn't as much running around as in Darks . I still prefer the Hub System of Demons .
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    Re: Developers focusing on non-linear, open world. Thoughts?

    Post by phastings on Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:24 pm

    Back Lot Basher wrote:I like the idea that the world will be open, but they're going to have to incorporate some serious gatepost enemies so players can judge the difficulty of what's ahead.

    Gatepost enemies to judge area-difficulty" sounds too much like flags in the ground to guide you along a path.. It should be a mystery so you can explore into points of interest, and not just the front door when u decide its going to be too tough and turn back.

    And although a lot of people won't like it, logic suggests that if they do this, there will be much more of a quest driven narrative in the beginning.  Fallout 3 was open world, but the main quest acted as a kind of guidepost to take people to areas suited to their level.  DKS would never mimic this outright, but I'm betting that open world means more scripted narrative.

    I don't see a problem with an intro that sets the stage for the journey, much like in Demon's Souls. Between the game intro and the monumental's narrative, they explained a lot more than was made clear in DaS. Ppl would flip, but must realize from this fact it would not be some drastic deviation from the souls games.

    they have already stated that the first part of the game is going to be different than what players expect, then at a certain point they will unleash the true experience. 

    I interpret this as more story driven progression at the advent, until at some point several hours of gameplay in, something really terrible happens in the game-world, an apocalypse type event that kills most human presence, then everything is hard as hell and you can go anywhere in the world in whatever order you want to progress.


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    Re: Developers focusing on non-linear, open world. Thoughts?

    Post by Jansports on Fri Jul 19, 2013 3:02 am

    Let me tell you something about rolling skelletons. They are a wonderful gatepost enemy. They let me know real quick my +2 rapier and being level 4 was no good for 4-1 my first playthrough of DeS. It doesn't have to be a large obvious boss like encounter in order to ward new players away temporarily, just a little too much damage/health on an enemy you encounter over and over, sometimes in pairs ect. will send the message just fine.
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    Re: Developers focusing on non-linear, open world. Thoughts?

    Post by phastings on Fri Jul 19, 2013 5:47 am

    haha totally forgot about rolling skeletons, and yes, theyre definitely quick to let you know they dont want any noobs on their turf. Good point though. It reminds me that From must have added the dredgelings at the start of new londo ruins for griefing purposes.


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    Re: Developers focusing on non-linear, open world. Thoughts?

    Post by TheMeInTeam on Fri Jul 19, 2013 11:04 am

    Maybe, but nothing about that long, narrow bridge, the lighting, or flying ghost enemies suggests "beginner area" big grin.


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    Re: Developers focusing on non-linear, open world. Thoughts?

    Post by Jansports on Wed Jul 24, 2013 2:53 am

    Once the player notices they can neither hit nor block the ghosts most exploration of new londo stops.

    Saddly for many first timers who chose the master key, they quickly find either drake or fat trolls through a locked gate, both of which are also quite good at the job of telling a new player "nope not here" I do not for a moment think those 3 fat giants on the upper path into Btown were an accident, and the path guarding Drake (assuming the poor chap doesn't anger the undead dragon) is also well placed to be a 'gateway' kinda mob.

    The subtle ques in the design of the early yet available areas in Dark Souls are not only well done, they're interesting as you could patiently learn to fight them, or learn to run past them. It's not a locked door, it's an open door with a very mean gaurd
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    Re: Developers focusing on non-linear, open world. Thoughts?

    Post by phastings on Wed Jul 24, 2013 2:28 pm

    I just hope they compose a well intuitive world layout that works with warping. From the points u guys have made, when i think about it gate post enemies are a good part of the design, so long as it is subtle enough so as to not feel like compelled linearity. It is always a good thing to have some mystery behind the exploration and the feeling of being lost in an oppressive souls world. 

    sidenote: Someone once said that DaS needs to have difficulty in reaching area bosses, because the trial and error repetition is a significant portion of total play-time. If that is trimmed away, one can only hope they have filled the void with a bigger world with more levels and tougher areas/enemies, as well as no clear/spelled out path of progression. I just hope they maintain that as well as they did it in DkS


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    Re: Developers focusing on non-linear, open world. Thoughts?

    Post by Back Lot Basher on Wed Jul 24, 2013 6:29 pm

    Jansports wrote:Let me tell you something about rolling skelletons. They are a wonderful gatepost enemy. They let me know real quick my +2 rapier and being level 4 was no good for 4-1 my first playthrough of DeS. It doesn't have to be a large obvious boss like encounter in order to ward new players away temporarily, just a little too much damage/health on an enemy you encounter over and over, sometimes in pairs ect. will send the message just fine.

     Absolutely.  This is exactly what I'm getting at.  I think it's a great system.  When I think about the routes I could have taken at the Firelink that first time, only one would suit an "average" player.  Going into the Catacombs, or New Londo (or the Blighttown shortcut) would earn you a swift punch in the mouth, and you'd turn back.  Hardcore vets would relish the challenge and keep on pushing.  That's a well designed open world.

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