Is dead angling an exploit?

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    Animaaal
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    Re: Is dead angling an exploit?

    Post by Animaaal on Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:18 pm

    Yaaaaaaaaaaaa, we kinda went awol.
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    Re: Is dead angling an exploit?

    Post by Leet on Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:18 pm

    I have yet to see anyone successfully use dragon breathe. At least i should say, i have yet to be hit by it.

    And when i talk about things i do in fights, it's always against randoms.


    The only people who put up a fight or beat me are on this forum.

    Granted, i have ran into people on here in the burg that didn't put up a fight, but set up duels between people on here are usually the best. I have a good time fighting everyone in the Exiled.

    Pirate, your broke *** needs to get internet back so i can see all this elite knowledge put into an actual battle. hurry up

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    Re: Is dead angling an exploit?

    Post by Forum Pirate on Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:19 pm

    lol.

    My point still stands though (referring to db now), they should be minding their range better and aiming unlocked and in front of you or at your feet, to prevent the horribly predictable forward roll working.

     

    I said dodging into wdb is a bad idea, and he thought I ment dark bead and argued accordingly, while I argued about wdb, accordingly


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    Re: Is dead angling an exploit?

    Post by Leet on Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:22 pm

    I'll be sure to let them know. cool

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    Re: Is dead angling an exploit?

    Post by Rynn on Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:39 pm

    Sentiel wrote:This works in PvP as well. If you simply can't block the attack, even with full Stamina, it will ignore your block and damage you anyway. 

     Untrue, and part of the reason strength sucks in PvP. If someone blocks an attack, even if they only had 1 stamina, it will only cause them to stagger. You can't pancake someone with a heavy attack from the dragontooth, or any other weapon, unless it dead angles or isn't blocked.
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    Re: Is dead angling an exploit?

    Post by Rynn on Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:43 pm

    Sentiel wrote:When fighting a spell caster, I always keep a medium distance to not get shot by DB point blank. If the caster suddenly closes in on me, he wants to use DB. That's my cue to prepare a roll and as soon as he gets close I do a roll. Usually I get hit by one bead, which does little damage, especially when compared to the bs he's just receiving.
    It's very risky, but since you can't block and Mid Roll is punishable by another fast DB, you don't have much of a choice.

     Also I seriously hate how braindead a lot of casters are silly... 3 dark beads is enough for me to win a fight, because I only use them to stomp someone whom is in the middle of striking me themself.
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    Re: Is dead angling an exploit?

    Post by Leet on Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:46 pm

    Rynn wrote:
    Sentiel wrote:This works in PvP as well. If you simply can't block the attack, even with full Stamina, it will ignore your block and damage you anyway. 

     Untrue, and part of the reason strength sucks in PvP. If someone blocks an attack, even if they only had 1 stamina, it will only cause them to stagger. You can't pancake someone with a heavy attack from the dragontooth, or any other weapon, unless it dead angles or isn't blocked.

     

    Really? Every time i pancake someone it's when they're not expecting it.

    Like the "face away from them, backstep towards them, and r1 zwei running attack"

    I guess you would call that a ravioli step? I don't know. I've never seen anyone use it except for me. If you can even understand what i'm saying.

    Essentially it's the backstep r1 of the zwei, but instead of backstepping away, you backstep towards them with your back to them, and hit r1 and switch direction towards them.

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    Re: Is dead angling an exploit?

    Post by Rynn on Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:19 pm

    Dude, that -is- the ravoli step. Tons of people use it silly. Few use it well.
    If they block, you won't pancake them. If shields did any of the things they were supposed to (and do) in PvE PvP would be vastly more interesting.

    Shields needed to consume more stamina to block with, but have their deflection properties, and appropriately permit pancaking as well.
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    Re: Is dead angling an exploit?

    Post by Hugh_G_Johnson on Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:22 pm

    Forum Pirate wrote:not so. It behaves exactly the same as every other weapon in this regard, at all times. It LOOKS different, but it is not.

    As I said, compared to a great scythe r2, a halberd r2 with the opponent standing beside you looks/does the same, and a zweih r1, at the side where the swing is ending looks different but also does the same thing, the same way.

    What it looks like is irrelevant, it is constrained by all the same rules as every other weapon.

    Scythes seem easier than most weapons to dead-angle with.  In my experience only curved swords and scythes consistently go straight through shields.  Dead-angling with other large weaons only seems useful for avoiding parries on a consistent basis.  I would consider that different.  But, I'm not saying it's the shape of the weapon that dead-angles.  I'm just saying if one were to say that is realistic because of the shape of scythes... I would counter by saying that back-stabs with scythes are LOL unrealistic.  So the weapons behavior is neither consistent, realistic nor reasonable.



    TooLeet wrote:I never seen anyone type out "Dragon Breathe" so i figured it was Dark Beed.

    I feel dumb now.

    Don't, I was trying to figure out what wdb was... I wasn't sure if the w was there on purpose or not.  I still think rolling under dark bead is dangerous at close range (not because it's not easy to do, but because of the ubiquitous follow-up dark bead), I'm guessing using the zwei makes a difference though since the range will allow you to not eat all the beads.  I gave up trying rolling R1s with greatswords, it seems best case they roll away before it hits and worse case; they cast DB before they get stunned and RIP in Peace.   Actually I've kinda given up close-quarters combat vs dark bead after I landed a running R1 with a katana for my opponents last 150 HP or less... then eating a posthumously cast dark bead that 1-shot me for 1800 HP. You Died  angry  


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    Re: Is dead angling an exploit?

    Post by Jansports on Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:38 pm

    Hugh are you talking about Scythes as in the Great Scythe and Lifehunt? Because the manner in which you talk about the odd blade shape when going around a shield or being odd when backstabbing leads me to think yes you are talking about the Great Scythe and Lifehunt, while consistently using the word Scythe, which is a completely different weapon (that can also dead angle)

    If so please stop. I've had a million+1 people assume I meant Great Scythe because the world forgets the scythe exists.
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    Re: Is dead angling an exploit?

    Post by Leet on Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:40 pm

    Rynn wrote:Dude, that -is- the ravoli step. Tons of people use it silly. Few use it well.
    If they block, you won't pancake them. If shields did any of the things they were supposed to (and do) in PvE PvP would be vastly more interesting.

    Shields needed to consume more stamina to block with, but have their deflection properties, and appropriately permit pancaking as well.

     
    The way i've seen ravioli stepped used is doing it as your opponent does like a lunging attack and you pretty much go right through them for a free backstab. 

    But word, i didn't know. It's a new tactic to me. I practice it everyday.

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    Re: Is dead angling an exploit?

    Post by Saturday-Saint on Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:42 pm

    Instant-tracking backstep is most useful for avoiding chainstabs IMO.  It is the only practical non-niche use for it that I have discovered.


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    Re: Is dead angling an exploit?

    Post by Leet on Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:43 pm

    Hugh_G_Johnson wrote:
    TooLeet wrote:I never seen anyone type out "Dragon Breathe" so i figured it was Dark Beed.

    I feel dumb now.

    Don't, I was trying to figure out what wdb was... I wasn't sure if the w was there on purpose or not.  I still think rolling under dark bead is dangerous at close range (not because it's not easy to do, but because of the ubiquitous follow-up dark bead), I'm guessing using the zwei makes a difference though since the range will allow you to not eat all the beads.  I gave up trying rolling R1s with greatswords, it seems best case they roll away before it hits and worse case; they cast DB before they get stunned and RIP in Peace.   Actually I've kinda given up close-quarters combat vs dark bead after I landed a running R1 with a katana for my opponents last 150 HP or less... then eating a posthumously cast dark bead that 1-shot me for 1800 HP. You Died  angry  

     

    I kept seeing "db, db, db, db" and never saw a w at the beginning lol.

    And if you roll r1 as they're casting it and clear the beed, you'll hit them before they can cast the next one. At least that's how it usually works for me.

    Magic is the least of my worries in PVP.

    Only thing i slightly worry about is HSM and because of the laggy phantom damage.

    Doesn't come anywhere near me and 2 seconds later i get hit by nothing. Really irritates me but it happens.

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    Re: Is dead angling an exploit?

    Post by Leet on Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:44 pm

    Saturday-Saint wrote:Instant-tracking backstep is most useful for avoiding chainstabs IMO.  It is the only practical non-niche use for it that I have discovered.

    Never heard of it. At least never heard that term.

    Care to elaborate?

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    Re: Is dead angling an exploit?

    Post by Saturday-Saint on Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:47 pm

    If you backstep away from your opponent as you get up from a knockdown it makes it very hard for them to chainstab you and also gives you a pretty good chance at avoiding wake-up attacks.  IMO it's the best 'default' option on wake-up, I always use it unless my opponent proves they can do something to counter it.

    This is also a good option vs. staggerstab.


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    Re: Is dead angling an exploit?

    Post by Leet on Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:48 pm

    I've heard if coming up from a knockdown if you don't hit any buttons it'll turn their "i'm gonna backstab you" into a regular r1. Haven't tried it yet.

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    Re: Is dead angling an exploit?

    Post by Saturday-Saint on Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:51 pm

    Yes, after getting up from a knockdown you are invulnerable to backstabs for a short time. This invulnerability ends as soon as you act. IMO backstepping is a better option, though, especially if you have DWGR. Doing nothing leaves you vulnerable to attacks, kick > BS, etc. while backstepping can really only be punished by a delayed attack (which won't even stun you) or if the person predicts it and runs around you for a BS (I have had this happen to me literally 1 time).


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    Re: Is dead angling an exploit?

    Post by Leet on Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:57 pm

    But if they're behind you, you backstep right into them.

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    Re: Is dead angling an exploit?

    Post by Saturday-Saint on Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:58 pm

    Right.  Which is why you instant-track your backstep to go away from them.  It's the thing you were talking about before, with Rynn. You press circle, wait a fraction of a second, then tilt your analog the direction you want to face.


    Last edited by Saturday-Saint on Thu Jul 11, 2013 11:05 pm; edited 1 time in total


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    Re: Is dead angling an exploit?

    Post by Emergence on Thu Jul 11, 2013 11:00 pm

    I should have added a ravioli emote. That would have gone over well I bet.


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    Re: Is dead angling an exploit?

    Post by Sentiel on Fri Jul 12, 2013 1:17 am

    I like how E enjoys his work. silly

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    Re: Is dead angling an exploit?

    Post by TheMeInTeam on Fri Jul 12, 2013 2:05 am

    More than once I've taken advantage of the "do nothing on wake up" and then traded once they attacked, essentially baiting a stunlock and killing someone big grin.


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    Re: Is dead angling an exploit?

    Post by hey its andres on Fri Jul 12, 2013 2:57 pm

    If you attack someone and do damage as they BS you then you'll get the phantom stab where you just go through the motions without losing health. Not sure how reliable this is though, probably only feasible with dex weapons if anything.


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    Re: Is dead angling an exploit?

    Post by Sentiel on Fri Jul 12, 2013 4:28 pm

    hey its andres wrote:If you attack someone and do damage as they BS you then you'll get the phantom stab where you just go through the motions without losing health. Not sure how reliable this is though, probably only feasible with dex weapons if anything.
    You can do this with kick as well, which is useful for slow Str weapons.

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    Re: Is dead angling an exploit?

    Post by Forum Pirate on Fri Jul 12, 2013 6:30 pm

    TooLeet wrote:I've heard if coming up from a knockdown if you don't hit any buttons it'll turn their "i'm gonna backstab you" into a regular r1. Haven't tried it yet.

    You can also instant track parry to turn around a chain bs attempt, but this can be thwarted by a kick or dead angle. (ie point towards them and hit l2 at the same time)


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