Is dead angling an exploit?

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    Re: Is dead angling an exploit?

    Post by Forum Pirate on Thu Jul 11, 2013 6:40 pm

    Not in reach, at least untill the nerf. hence the nerf.

    You could kill them, but not in time if they had a full shield. The exceptions were the sniper and the rocket launcher (unless they manage the rocket jump and kill you anyways.)


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    Re: Is dead angling an exploit?

    Post by Sentiel on Thu Jul 11, 2013 6:47 pm

    Well if the homing ability was enhanced, then the nerf is understandable. That means, that even if I snipe the guy, I'm still with no shield and prone to get roflsprayed.
    Rocket jump is still there? Wasn't that like turned absolete with Gravity Hammer? That thing could bounce the rocket back at it's owner. I only tried a few times for the lulz and it worked great in 3. Still, as long as you see the guy before he jumps, he's no threat. Jumping is a one directional movement with set trajectory. It's just a matter of faster trigger finger then.

    I still won't forgive them for nerfing the Pistol.

    ! We should stop OT. I feel the presence of banhammer close by.

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    Re: Is dead angling an exploit?

    Post by Leet on Thu Jul 11, 2013 6:49 pm

    Plasma pistol? no see 

    No scope sniper ftw.

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    Re: Is dead angling an exploit?

    Post by Hugh_G_Johnson on Thu Jul 11, 2013 6:50 pm

    Sentiel wrote:As for the Asylum Demon and Havel. The reason you can't block it is that your shields Stability plus your Stamina are not enough to block the attack and thus it will pancake you. This works in PvP as well. If you simply can't block the attack, even with full Stamina, it will ignore your block and damage you anyway. Try it with End 40 nad Havel's Shield and see what gets through that.

    Try blocking a Havel attack with a 100% damage reduction shield with a full stamina bar on a brand new toon -- it works!  It wipes out your stamina bar, but you take zero damage (that might be class dependent due to different stamina stats, but you can definitely block a Havel swing on a new toon).  In my experience where you're standing effects whether or not you can block one of those overhead attacks.

    Forum Pirate wrote:We can't make a "realism" argument with dead angles because then we'd half to make a realism argument about everything.

    If that was referring to my comments about the scythe, I agree.  That's why I object to the scythe being able to go around a shield, as well as quickly stab at point-blank range (again; with the broad, dull side of the blade no less).  That's actually the point I was making; it should either be realistic or not.

    Sentiel wrote:...DB, which is easily punished by roll BS even with a Mid Roll.

    whoa whoa whoa whoa WHOA -- WWWHHHOOOAAAA!!! surprised surprised surprised 

    I almost always midroll and I used to carry a crest shield for all the dark magic users.  Then I realized I was dodging all the casts and now I use the dragon crest or black knight to block combustion spells (which are extremely hard to dodge considering their often ridiculous phantom range).  It sounds like we both get really bad lag, but I rarely have problems dodging magic.  However, you'll never catch me trying to BS dark bead even with fast roll.  I don't think DB is necessarily OP anymore, but I think it just has too much going for it.  Low stat requirements, damage, poise-break, range, number of casts, it doesn't go over heads like CSS and of course... cast speed.  I think for many people the main use for DB is to bait a BS attempt and then 1-shot you.  How are you BSing people who spam DB, at all -- let alone midroll?  I mean... I'm sure it's possible, but can you execute it a high enough percentage of time to where it's worth risking a lagged out 1-shot?


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    Re: Is dead angling an exploit?

    Post by Forum Pirate on Thu Jul 11, 2013 6:50 pm

    yeah, it is.

    You can also punch the sword/gravity hammer to sruvive the blow. it was always funny when someone hadn't seen it happen


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    Re: Is dead angling an exploit?

    Post by Sentiel on Thu Jul 11, 2013 7:01 pm

    When fighting a spell caster, I always keep a medium distance to not get shot by DB point blank. If the caster suddenly closes in on me, he wants to use DB. That's my cue to prepare a roll and as soon as he gets close I do a roll. Usually I get hit by one bead, which does little damage, especially when compared to the bs he's just receiving.
    It's very risky, but since you can't block and Mid Roll is punishable by another fast DB, you don't have much of a choice.

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    Re: Is dead angling an exploit?

    Post by hey its andres on Thu Jul 11, 2013 7:02 pm

    Off Topic 

    Actually I've seen people get a "Dead angle" hit with CSS. I'm not sure if this is phantom damage or an actual dead angle.


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    Re: Is dead angling an exploit?

    Post by Leet on Thu Jul 11, 2013 7:22 pm

    Sentiel wrote:When fighting a spell caster, I always keep a medium distance to not get shot by DB point blank. If the caster suddenly closes in on me, he wants to use DB. That's my cue to prepare a roll and as soon as he gets close I do a roll. Usually I get hit by one bead, which does little damage, especially when compared to the bs he's just receiving.
    It's very risky, but since you can't block and Mid Roll is punishable by another fast DB, you don't have much of a choice.

     

    I love fighting spell casters. One of the easiest builds to kill in my experience.

    A spell casting/claymore build or anything other than purely casting, that's a different story.

    My favorite thing to do is keep a little bit of distance (not too much, not too little) and as soon as i see them cast a dark bead or whatever i'll roll right into it (timing it right) and roll r1 my zwei into their face. It tends to throw them off and they get scared to cast in the possibility of it happening again. That's one of the best moves in the game, hands down. 

    I won 5 matches in a row strictly using that move (just for fun)

    Imo, Dark Souls is a big mind game. Either you get in their head, you make them think you play a certain way and play the opposite, you trick them into thinking you have a rapier build but you have a zweih in your pocket, you read their movements and calculate their next move, wearing chest pieces that result in no poise to make them think they'll lock stun you but in reality you want that to happen and see it coming, etc etc. I could go on and on. It's all a big mind game. You can't simply be a roid raged baboon with no brain and go out their swinging like an animal. I don't know where all that came from but yeah. thumbs up

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    Re: Is dead angling an exploit?

    Post by Forum Pirate on Thu Jul 11, 2013 7:41 pm

    rolling into wdb is a bad idea, just for the record.

    The scythe doesn't go aroun shields because of the blade, else it would be impossible to block most of the time.

     If the halberd had the same running r1, it would dead angle the same way with it, though not as well.It does the same thing with its r2s.

    Its that you're facing away from them and hitting them while they're behind you because of the length of the hitbox. I you'll notice, it works best at an angle instead of straight ahead, because if they're facing exactly the opposide direction of you then the attack is going the same direction their shield is facing and so they can block.

    It looks different, but its actually the same as everything else.
     


     My next mid roller is running gmb. Mages can suck it. I'll trade a dgm hit for a black flame most of the time. I'll take 800 damage, but a dmb buffed dgm will deal 700 on the hit, and 1600 on the follow up bs. Instant victory.


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    Re: Is dead angling an exploit?

    Post by Animaaal on Thu Jul 11, 2013 7:50 pm

    @Sentinel

    LOVE the look.  The build is of course solid, but I always love seeing people using armor for mainly esthetic reasons.

    To me that says, "Big :blue-orb: :blue-orb: s".

    I like you even more now just because of that.  

    I've been using something like this lately: http://mugenmonkey.com/darksouls/?c=411209584276187123

    -The Thieves Hood is the only one in the game that truly casts a noticeable shadow.  The Gold Hemmed is just  darkness.

    -The Shadow garb is pretty horrible, but it looks AWSUM imo with the Dingy Gloves.  The Dingy Gloves have this "Emipre'esq" sort of embroidering on them.

    -I'm not thrilled with how the garb and the thorn leggings look together, but nothing says bada$$ like, "I  have thorns in my crotch....GET SOME!"

    @everyone else

    You're fighting the wrong mages....I need to open the school back up.

    @wizards

    Castings are your tool, not your crutch.
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    Re: Is dead angling an exploit?

    Post by Forum Pirate on Thu Jul 11, 2013 7:57 pm

    .................................... crutches are tools straight face


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    Re: Is dead angling an exploit?

    Post by Animaaal on Thu Jul 11, 2013 8:08 pm

    Lol lol 

    But not all tools are crutches.
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    Re: Is dead angling an exploit?

    Post by Hugh_G_Johnson on Thu Jul 11, 2013 8:14 pm

    Forum Pirate wrote:The scythe doesn't go aroun shields because of the blade, else it would be impossible to block most of the time.

     If the halberd had the same running r1, it would dead angle the same way with it, though not as well.It does the same thing with its r2s.

    Its that you're facing away from them and hitting them while they're behind you because of the length of the hitbox. I you'll notice, it works best at an angle instead of straight ahead, because if they're facing exactly the opposide direction of you then the attack is going the same direction their shield is facing and so they can block.


    The point is: it would be understandable for the scythe to behave differently than other weapons.  And unlike other weapons you can easily dead-angle in a way that makes sense.  However, since it behaves differently than other weapons when convenient and exactly the same when convenient, even though logically it should not; it's a load of crap.


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    Re: Is dead angling an exploit?

    Post by Forum Pirate on Thu Jul 11, 2013 8:21 pm

    not so. It behaves exactly the same as every other weapon in this regard, at all times. It LOOKS different, but it is not.

    As I said, compared to a great scythe r2, a halberd r2 with the opponent standing beside you looks/does the same, and a zweih r1, at the side where the swing is ending looks different but also does the same thing, the same way.

    What it looks like is irrelevant, it is constrained by all the same rules as every other weapon.


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    Re: Is dead angling an exploit?

    Post by Leet on Thu Jul 11, 2013 8:26 pm

    Forum Pirate wrote:rolling into wdb is a bad idea, just for the record.



    Not for the record.

    That's more of an opinion, not a fact.

    I pull it off everyday. It's not a bad idea for me.

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    Re: Is dead angling an exploit?

    Post by Forum Pirate on Thu Jul 11, 2013 8:28 pm

    I didn't say it can't be done, but the timing is fairly exact. A connection hiccup and you eat 900 damage.


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    Re: Is dead angling an exploit?

    Post by Leet on Thu Jul 11, 2013 8:31 pm

    Forum Pirate wrote:I didn't say it can't be done, but the timing is fairly exact. A connection hiccup and you eat 900 damage.

     
    Never happens. Most of the time, the person is locked on so they're aimed upwards a little bit at your height.

    When they cast it, they stay aimed at that height, thus allowing you to roll right under the cast for a free shot.

    I do it everyday. Every time i fight a caster with db, i do it. It's one of the things i've learned to counter it, because i use to HATE db back in the day.

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    Re: Is dead angling an exploit?

    Post by Forum Pirate on Thu Jul 11, 2013 8:41 pm

    oh, well that's because they're too stupid to aim properly.

     When they aim unlocked and cast while you're too far away to roll in and get inside its range (not hard to do, but apparently the mages you face suck) then rolling towards them is what they're hoping for. They'll be just outside that roll range so you get hit exiting the roll, for 40% extra damage.


    Ask robs, or maybe twilight. That's how I hit them with it.


    Last edited by Forum Pirate on Thu Jul 11, 2013 8:45 pm; edited 1 time in total


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    Re: Is dead angling an exploit?

    Post by Animaaal on Thu Jul 11, 2013 8:44 pm

    I thought you guys were talking about White Dragon Breath, and how the hell do you roll "under" that?
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    Re: Is dead angling an exploit?

    Post by Forum Pirate on Thu Jul 11, 2013 8:47 pm

    we are, and you can. It hits the ground a few feet in front of the caster, if you roll towards them, and you're close enough, they cast over your head to hit the ground behind you. If they're stupid about it, anyways (though we all have those moments)


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    Re: Is dead angling an exploit?

    Post by Forum Pirate on Thu Jul 11, 2013 8:58 pm

    oh, were you talking about dark beed? I was talking about white dragon breath.

    Forward or too the side are the only ways to dodge db. They still shouldn't be locked on though, they should be casting at your feet so you'll take a hit if you try.


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    Re: Is dead angling an exploit?

    Post by Animaaal on Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:03 pm

    Wow. Learned sumting. Bow 

    thnx, but im not gonna do that, even on the rare occasion I actually see it being used.

    Sounds cool though, I had no idea you could do that.
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    Re: Is dead angling an exploit?

    Post by Forum Pirate on Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:09 pm

    its not commonly done, because its a bad idea. One can manually aim straight down so that if they're not off to 1 side, or kissing you, you'll hit anyways. Its how I punish people looking to straff or roll bs my css, they rarely think to just attack when I start spinning and keep circling for it, right into a wdb.

    It makes it harder to account fot their dodge if they back off and decide to go left or right though.


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    Re: Is dead angling an exploit?

    Post by Leet on Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:13 pm

    Forum Pirate wrote:oh, were you talking about dark beed? I was talking about white dragon breath.

    Forward or too the side are the only ways to dodge db. They still shouldn't be locked on though, they should be casting at your feet so you'll take a hit if you try.

     
    I was talking about talking dark beed.

    ***. That just changed everyone's conversation.

    I never seen anyone type out "Dragon Breathe" so i figured it was Dark Beed.

    I feel dumb now.

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    Re: Is dead angling an exploit?

    Post by Saturday-Saint on Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:16 pm

    I haven't read most of this conversation, but this seems like a weird topic. Like, WDB is such an ineffective spell, why is there being energy dedicated to arguing how to beat it?


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