Bring back Crushing weapons

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    SadPanda
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    Re: Bring back Crushing weapons

    Post by SadPanda on Sat Jul 06, 2013 8:14 pm

    Lmaousine wrote:
    Dibsville wrote:No, they have fast windup's, especially for how much power they have. Also, I think you're forgetting the Crescent Axe and Gargoyle Tail Axe.

    Crescent Axe has split damage
    Gargoyle Tail Axe is a dex weapon, if you have high dex you might as well use a katana
    No, Gargoyle Tail Axe is a quality weapon. And although Crescent Axe is split AR, it still does 503 damage at 40 STR and 40 FTH. Perfect for Faith builds. And Gargoyle Tail Axe does 444 pure physical at 40/40, making it more damaging than a katana, and the same speed WITH more stunlock as a katana (if you don't whiff).

    Oh, and Dibs was trying to talk about the length and hitboxes of the axes. Like the Butcher Knife, Crescent Axe, and Gargoyle Tail Axe.

    I sense you have a katana bias...


    Last edited by SadPanda on Sat Jul 06, 2013 8:16 pm; edited 1 time in total


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    Re: Bring back Crushing weapons

    Post by Dibsville on Sat Jul 06, 2013 8:15 pm

    Depends on the bias.

    But no, I'm not biased on any weapon.


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    Re: Bring back Crushing weapons

    Post by SadPanda on Sat Jul 06, 2013 8:16 pm

    Dibsville wrote:Depends on the bias.

    But no, I'm not biased on any weapon.
    No, I meant OP has a katana bias.


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    Re: Bring back Crushing weapons

    Post by Dibsville on Sat Jul 06, 2013 8:17 pm

    The last name you said was mine, so I assumed you were talking to me. My bad.


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    Re: Bring back Crushing weapons

    Post by Lmaousine on Sat Jul 06, 2013 9:08 pm

    SadPanda wrote:
    Dibsville wrote:Depends on the bias.

    But no, I'm not biased on any weapon.
    No, I meant OP has a katana bias.
    No biases here, I just think that Katanas are good weapons for Dex users, but the best weapon for Dex (statistically speaking) is the Great Scythe.
     


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    Re: Bring back Crushing weapons

    Post by Dibsville on Sat Jul 06, 2013 9:10 pm

    Except the Great Scythe is only good in the hands of someone who isn't complete garbage and knows how to handle it.

    You know, like ENB.


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    Re: Bring back Crushing weapons

    Post by SadPanda on Sat Jul 06, 2013 9:16 pm

    Lmaousine wrote:
    SadPanda wrote:
    Dibsville wrote:Depends on the bias.

    But no, I'm not biased on any weapon.
    No, I meant OP has a katana bias.
    No biases here, I just think that Katanas are good weapons for Dex users, but the best weapon for Dex (statistically speaking) is the Great Scythe.
     
    I have to completely disagree. ENB gets too much agreement for his videos, and literally any opposition gets flagged before anyone can see it.


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    Re: Bring back Crushing weapons

    Post by RANT on Sat Jul 06, 2013 10:14 pm

    Nope, reg scythe is better than great scythe in every way.


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    Re: Bring back Crushing weapons

    Post by ResIsBestStat on Sun Jul 07, 2013 9:15 am

    RANT wrote:Nope, reg scythe is better than great scythe in every way.
    THE TRUTH HAS BEEN SPOKEN
    I checked ENB's video and thought: "Hmm, must be right?" But then I found out Scythe is better in any other way...
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    Re: Bring back Crushing weapons

    Post by Dibsville on Sun Jul 07, 2013 3:26 pm

    ENB's video is true for anyone who isn't complete garbage and can actually use the Great Scythe well. ENB is an experienced player, he's not some noob who sees a video and says "Man, I should copy that because he's doing well with it."
    ENB can use the weapon effectively. 95% of his viewers can't.


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    Re: Bring back Crushing weapons

    Post by Myztyrio on Sun Jul 07, 2013 8:27 pm

    I use crushing in PvP.


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    Re: Bring back Crushing weapons

    Post by TheWanderer101 on Sun Jul 07, 2013 11:05 pm

    I wouldn't mind if they brought back some upgrade paths from DeS however alot of them were pointless.
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    Re: Bring back Crushing weapons

    Post by passivefamiliar on Mon Jul 08, 2013 7:58 am

    give me my demons souls mercury scimitar again please!!

    also iI know this is a fan site so most of you are hardcore. But lay off the stat arguments so number specific its a freaking game...just enjoy it. i may lose to you stat freaks but iI bet the farm I have a better time playing.


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    Re: Bring back Crushing weapons

    Post by TheWanderer101 on Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:37 am

    Ah yes i miss trolling low levels with the mercury rapier.
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    Re: Bring back Crushing weapons

    Post by Forum Pirate on Mon Jul 08, 2013 12:16 pm

    Dibsville wrote:No, they have fast windup's, especially for how much power they have. Also, I think you're forgetting the Crescent Axe and Gargoyle Tail Axe.
    Really? Just no.

    The crescent axe is not 508 damage, its 508 ar, and its split. You'll be lucky to break 300 damage, making it significantly weaker than the msgs, which stunlocks great and deadangles much better than any 1h axe.
    the issue with the windup isn't the speed, its that its really well telegraphed, and on such short weapons, this means its one of the few werpon classes that can be sight parried, and they don't dead angle well to compensate.

    Without the stagger they would be really good, but that stagger is overkill and pretty much wrecks the strong points of the classes, being high dps and absurd stun locking ability, because 1 miss, and you're going to miss, means a bs for 800+ damage.

    As is, the axes and hammers are only good for high poise builds looking to trade, (which is made difficult by the short reach) and follow into a stunlock+bs combo. One really is better off just using the msgs for the same weight as the best axe, but better in every way.


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    Re: Bring back Crushing weapons

    Post by TheMeInTeam on Tue Jul 09, 2013 3:25 pm

    Dex weapons are faster and have more pure DPS as a result.

    Str weapons require less stat investment to max out their damage and allow more investment into buffs at a given SL.  They also break poise faster and are more likely to stunlock, and do a bit more on any one hit.

    These weapons have different styles and the supporting equipment on them needs to be different.  If you use dex supporting equipment on a str build, you'll probably fail.


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    Re: Bring back Crushing weapons

    Post by Dibsville on Tue Jul 09, 2013 3:27 pm

    Forum Pirate wrote:
    Dibsville wrote:No, they have fast windup's, especially for how much power they have. Also, I think you're forgetting the Crescent Axe and Gargoyle Tail Axe.
    Really? Just no.
    Oh I'm sorry, I didn't know that they have the same range as the other Axes and Hammers, which is what I was talking about.

    Forum Pirate wrote:As is, the axes and hammers are only good for high poise builds looking to trade, (which is made difficult by the short reach) and follow into a stunlock+bs combo. One really is better off just using the msgs for the same weight as the best axe, but better in every way.

    No, anyone who uses Axes and Hammers non-stop can tell you otherwise. And I'm telling you otherwise.


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    Re: Bring back Crushing weapons

    Post by Forum Pirate on Tue Jul 09, 2013 3:44 pm

    You can say so all you'd like but your wrong.

    You being good with a weapon is not the same as the weapon being good. I can win with the cestus but it blows and we all know it.

    Everything an axe can do, a great sword can do better (wait, i forgot about the speed nerf, so they cant stunlock in both hands, but they can still do so in 1 hand,) with higher damage, longer reach (excluding the cresent axe which is the weakest of the bunch) and without that rediculous stagger.

    Its not that they're unusable, because they can be used, and to great effect, but so can the short bow, its still outclassed by the composite bow. Thats just the truth of the game mechanics.


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    Re: Bring back Crushing weapons

    Post by Dibsville on Tue Jul 09, 2013 3:47 pm

    Yeah, except Axes and Hammers are lighter, and can actually stunlock easily unlike a greatsword post-nerf.


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    Re: Bring back Crushing weapons

    Post by Forum Pirate on Tue Jul 09, 2013 3:51 pm

    The greatswords stunlock quite easily. 1hr2 (easiest for me as a trade, but I've seen it happen as a punish or just with clever timing,) r1. unless you have more than 80 poise that r1 stunlocks you, and the 1hr2-1hr1 combo is actuall really fast (the strong attacks recovery seems to be significantly shortened if its chained into an r1)


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    Re: Bring back Crushing weapons

    Post by Dibsville on Tue Jul 09, 2013 3:54 pm

    Except the R2's tend to be slow, and the fast ones usually have long range so it's easy to get out-ranged on your R1 follow-up (This is something you can not deny happens from time to time).

    Every weapon is good and bad in their own way. Hammers and Axes are a toss-up for pretty much ending the fight if you hit someone, while having slower attacks and short range. Greatswords have high damage and good range, but weigh more than Hammers and Axes. Etc etc.

    Edit: Before I go on, I'm going to just point out that I think Greatswords are much better than Hammers and Axes, but you can not simply go out and hate on a weapon without also looking at its pros.


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    Re: Bring back Crushing weapons

    Post by Forum Pirate on Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:01 pm

    That happens to the axe too unless you stun them with the first hit.


    the best axe by far, the butchers knife, weighs 10 units just like the msgs, and the lightest greatsword only weighs 6 units, which is only 2 more than the middling axes.


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    Re: Bring back Crushing weapons

    Post by Dibsville on Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:02 pm

    Going to say Warpick on that one.


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    Re: Bring back Crushing weapons

    Post by Forum Pirate on Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:19 pm

    stipulated, but only if you have space for the leo ring, and even then only with counter damage (which only that first hit is going to get, if that) and that ring slot hurts.

    Also, the pickaxe is better, but I'm going to assume thats what you ment, unless you know something about their movesets that I don't.

    my point on the weight remains valid, its laughably easy to get 300+ defense 62+ poise and have 8 units left for a heater shield and claymore.


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    Re: Bring back Crushing weapons

    Post by sparkly-twinkly-lizard on Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:25 pm

    the warpick has a wide horizantal swipe for its r2's, the pickaxe has a long windup smash, thus the warpick gets a dead angle advantage, also the warpick is 3.5 pounds vs the pickaxes 5 allowing you to toss on a bow, or some other back up weapon. the pickaxes advantage is that it only requires one stat


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