Bring back Crushing weapons

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    Lmaousine
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    Re: Bring back Crushing weapons

    Post by Lmaousine on Sat Jul 06, 2013 5:44 pm

    Dibsville wrote:
    Lmaousine wrote:
    Dibsville wrote:All those except Mura do medium damage. Great Scythe is extremely easy to fight against since about 95% of people who use it are garbage with it.

    Tracer can be parried.
    Furysword can be parried.
    Katanas can be parried.


    Mura is a Greatsword, there's a reason it does high damage. Every Greatsword does high damage. That one is self-explanatory. There's no reason it shouldn't have high damage.
    But can those weapons be setup parried? Are they as easy to parry as say, a mace, or a greataxe?
    Also the Crystal Greatword is the only bad Greatsword
    And I forgot to mention the Flamberge, the R2 can deal high damage and it also causes bleeding.
    All of those can be setup parried.
    CGS is not a bad weapon, it's just outclassed when you, you know, beat the Depths.

    Flamberge is also a Greatsword, of course it does high damage.
    No they can't, curved swords and katanas are too fast to setup parry, you have to take the first hit and then parry right as the weapon hits you.
    And the Flamberge is a Dex weapon that does high damage and is much lighter than the Manserpent Greatsword


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    Re: Bring back Crushing weapons

    Post by Dibsville on Sat Jul 06, 2013 5:47 pm

    Lmaousine wrote:
    Dibsville wrote:
    Lmaousine wrote:
    Dibsville wrote:All those except Mura do medium damage. Great Scythe is extremely easy to fight against since about 95% of people who use it are garbage with it.

    Tracer can be parried.
    Furysword can be parried.
    Katanas can be parried.


    Mura is a Greatsword, there's a reason it does high damage. Every Greatsword does high damage. That one is self-explanatory. There's no reason it shouldn't have high damage.
    But can those weapons be setup parried? Are they as easy to parry as say, a mace, or a greataxe?
    Also the Crystal Greatword is the only bad Greatsword
    And I forgot to mention the Flamberge, the R2 can deal high damage and it also causes bleeding.
    All of those can be setup parried.
    CGS is not a bad weapon, it's just outclassed when you, you know, beat the Depths.

    Flamberge is also a Greatsword, of course it does high damage.
    No they can't, curved swords and katanas are too fast to setup parry, you have to take the first hit and then parry right as the weapon hits you.
    And the Flamberge is a Dex weapon that does high damage and is much lighter than the Manserpent Greatsword
    Press up right as their attack hits to cancel the animation, parry, obtain setup parry.

    Ever heard of animation cancels? There are a ****-load in the game. I think the one you may know best is rolling out of a fall.

    By the way, Clay does 431 Damage at 16/40, as compared to the 445 of Flam at 16/40, and it's not even a Dex weapon. Clay also does more damage than Flam if you two-hand it.

    Where is your overpowered Dex Greatsword now.


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    Re: Bring back Crushing weapons

    Post by Forum Pirate on Sat Jul 06, 2013 5:53 pm

    Damage=/= AR dibs.
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    Re: Bring back Crushing weapons

    Post by Dibsville on Sat Jul 06, 2013 6:00 pm

    Forum Pirate wrote:Damage=/= AR dibs.
    You're right, Clay outdamages Flam due to thrusting attacks outdamaging slashing attacks.

    My bad.


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    Re: Bring back Crushing weapons

    Post by Lmaousine on Sat Jul 06, 2013 6:02 pm

    Dibsville wrote:
    Lmaousine wrote:
    Dibsville wrote:
    Lmaousine wrote:
    Dibsville wrote:All those except Mura do medium damage. Great Scythe is extremely easy to fight against since about 95% of people who use it are garbage with it.

    Tracer can be parried.
    Furysword can be parried.
    Katanas can be parried.


    Mura is a Greatsword, there's a reason it does high damage. Every Greatsword does high damage. That one is self-explanatory. There's no reason it shouldn't have high damage.
    But can those weapons be setup parried? Are they as easy to parry as say, a mace, or a greataxe?
    Also the Crystal Greatword is the only bad Greatsword
    And I forgot to mention the Flamberge, the R2 can deal high damage and it also causes bleeding.
    All of those can be setup parried.
    CGS is not a bad weapon, it's just outclassed when you, you know, beat the Depths.

    Flamberge is also a Greatsword, of course it does high damage.
    No they can't, curved swords and katanas are too fast to setup parry, you have to take the first hit and then parry right as the weapon hits you.
    And the Flamberge is a Dex weapon that does high damage and is much lighter than the Manserpent Greatsword
    Press up right as their attack hits to cancel the animation, parry, obtain setup parry.

    Ever heard of animation cancels? There are a ****-load in the game. I think the one you may know best is rolling out of a fall.

    By the way, Clay does 431 Damage at 16/40, as compared to the 445 of Flam at 16/40, and it's not even a Dex weapon. Clay also does more damage than Flam if you two-hand it.

    Where is your overpowered Dex Greatsword now.
    Don't forget that the flamberge can cause bleed, unlike the claymore, it can create high pressure on those who use greatshields or turtle with spears/rapiers


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    Re: Bring back Crushing weapons

    Post by Dibsville on Sat Jul 06, 2013 6:04 pm

    Lmaousine wrote:
    Dibsville wrote:
    Lmaousine wrote:
    Dibsville wrote:
    Lmaousine wrote:
    Dibsville wrote:All those except Mura do medium damage. Great Scythe is extremely easy to fight against since about 95% of people who use it are garbage with it.

    Tracer can be parried.
    Furysword can be parried.
    Katanas can be parried.


    Mura is a Greatsword, there's a reason it does high damage. Every Greatsword does high damage. That one is self-explanatory. There's no reason it shouldn't have high damage.
    But can those weapons be setup parried? Are they as easy to parry as say, a mace, or a greataxe?
    Also the Crystal Greatword is the only bad Greatsword
    And I forgot to mention the Flamberge, the R2 can deal high damage and it also causes bleeding.
    All of those can be setup parried.
    CGS is not a bad weapon, it's just outclassed when you, you know, beat the Depths.

    Flamberge is also a Greatsword, of course it does high damage.
    No they can't, curved swords and katanas are too fast to setup parry, you have to take the first hit and then parry right as the weapon hits you.
    And the Flamberge is a Dex weapon that does high damage and is much lighter than the Manserpent Greatsword
    Press up right as their attack hits to cancel the animation, parry, obtain setup parry.

    Ever heard of animation cancels? There are a ****-load in the game. I think the one you may know best is rolling out of a fall.

    By the way, Clay does 431 Damage at 16/40, as compared to the 445 of Flam at 16/40, and it's not even a Dex weapon. Clay also does more damage than Flam if you two-hand it.

    Where is your overpowered Dex Greatsword now.
    Don't forget that the flamberge can cause bleed, unlike the claymore, it can create high pressure on those who use greatshields or turtle with spears/rapiers
    Don't forget that Flamberge is a Greatsword, so bleeding someone out with it before you kill them is a blessing unless they're bare naked. Also, Claymore has a dead-angling R2 that does more damage than Flam R2, so it's not like turtles are a big problem.


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    Re: Bring back Crushing weapons

    Post by SadPanda on Sat Jul 06, 2013 6:07 pm

    Dibsville wrote:
    SadPanda wrote:
    Dibsville wrote:All those except Mura do medium damage. Great Scythe is extremely easy to fight against since about 95% of people who use it are garbage with it.

    Tracer can be parried.
    Furysword can be parried.
    Katanas can be parried.

    Mura is a Greatsword, there's a reason it does high damage. Every Greatsword does high damage. That one is self-explanatory. There's no reason it shouldn't have high damage.
    And Dibs, you are kinda contradicting yourself. You asked for strong dex weapons, by dex we assume you mean good dex scaling. But all the ones we suggest you say aren't "technically" a dex weapon.
    What? I seriously can not understand what you mean.

    I never said any of them are not technically Dex weapons?

    The only one in there that is even close to not being a Dex weapon is the Mura, which I still consider to be a Dex weapon.
    Well, you asked for damage, not if they're good. And then when people were saying flamberge, and murakumo you said they weren't technically dex weapons.


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    Re: Bring back Crushing weapons

    Post by Dibsville on Sat Jul 06, 2013 6:10 pm

    SadPanda wrote:Well, you asked for damage, not if they're good. And then when people were saying flamberge, and murakumo you said they weren't technically dex weapons.
    No, I said they were Greatswords. There's a reason they do high damage. Please explain why a Greatsword shouldn't do high damage, other than the CGS, which only does low damage because it can't be upgraded.


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    Re: Bring back Crushing weapons

    Post by SadPanda on Sat Jul 06, 2013 6:14 pm

    Dibsville wrote:
    SadPanda wrote:Well, you asked for damage, not if they're good. And then when people were saying flamberge, and murakumo you said they weren't technically dex weapons.
    No, I said they were Greatswords. There's a reason they do high damage. Please explain why a Greatsword shouldn't do high damage, other than the CGS, which only does low damage because it can't be upgraded.
    Yeah, but even if it IS a greatsword it's still a dex weapon. It should do high damage. Kinda like how the Murakumo is essentially the UGS of dex weapons, and great scythes are the greatswords. And greatswords don't always have to do high damage. Actually come to think of it, I wouldn't mind dummy weapons in Dark Souls II. Like training versions of weapons. The straight sword hilt of the other classes, don't know why, just me I guess.


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    Re: Bring back Crushing weapons

    Post by Lmaousine on Sat Jul 06, 2013 6:17 pm

    Dibsville wrote:
    Lmaousine wrote:
    Dibsville wrote:
    Lmaousine wrote:
    Dibsville wrote:
    Lmaousine wrote:
    Dibsville wrote:All those except Mura do medium damage. Great Scythe is extremely easy to fight against since about 95% of people who use it are garbage with it.

    Tracer can be parried.
    Furysword can be parried.
    Katanas can be parried.


    Mura is a Greatsword, there's a reason it does high damage. Every Greatsword does high damage. That one is self-explanatory. There's no reason it shouldn't have high damage.
    But can those weapons be setup parried? Are they as easy to parry as say, a mace, or a greataxe?
    Also the Crystal Greatword is the only bad Greatsword
    And I forgot to mention the Flamberge, the R2 can deal high damage and it also causes bleeding.
    All of those can be setup parried.
    CGS is not a bad weapon, it's just outclassed when you, you know, beat the Depths.

    Flamberge is also a Greatsword, of course it does high damage.
    No they can't, curved swords and katanas are too fast to setup parry, you have to take the first hit and then parry right as the weapon hits you.
    And the Flamberge is a Dex weapon that does high damage and is much lighter than the Manserpent Greatsword
    Press up right as their attack hits to cancel the animation, parry, obtain setup parry.

    Ever heard of animation cancels? There are a ****-load in the game. I think the one you may know best is rolling out of a fall.

    By the way, Clay does 431 Damage at 16/40, as compared to the 445 of Flam at 16/40, and it's not even a Dex weapon. Clay also does more damage than Flam if you two-hand it.

    Where is your overpowered Dex Greatsword now.
    Don't forget that the flamberge can cause bleed, unlike the claymore, it can create high pressure on those who use greatshields or turtle with spears/rapiers
    Don't forget that Flamberge is a Greatsword, so bleeding someone out with it before you kill them is a blessing unless they're bare naked. Also, Claymore has a dead-angling R2 that does more damage than Flam R2, so it's not like turtles are a big problem.
    The Iaito's R2 can also dead-angle, the Mura's rolling R1 can dead-angle.

    Before you can respond, ask yourself, what is the Strength equivalent to Katanas?


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    Re: Bring back Crushing weapons

    Post by SadPanda on Sat Jul 06, 2013 6:19 pm

    Lmaousine wrote:
    Dibsville wrote:
    Lmaousine wrote:
    Dibsville wrote:
    Lmaousine wrote:
    Dibsville wrote:
    Lmaousine wrote:
    Dibsville wrote:All those except Mura do medium damage. Great Scythe is extremely easy to fight against since about 95% of people who use it are garbage with it.

    Tracer can be parried.
    Furysword can be parried.
    Katanas can be parried.


    Mura is a Greatsword, there's a reason it does high damage. Every Greatsword does high damage. That one is self-explanatory. There's no reason it shouldn't have high damage.
    But can those weapons be setup parried? Are they as easy to parry as say, a mace, or a greataxe?
    Also the Crystal Greatword is the only bad Greatsword
    And I forgot to mention the Flamberge, the R2 can deal high damage and it also causes bleeding.
    All of those can be setup parried.
    CGS is not a bad weapon, it's just outclassed when you, you know, beat the Depths.

    Flamberge is also a Greatsword, of course it does high damage.
    No they can't, curved swords and katanas are too fast to setup parry, you have to take the first hit and then parry right as the weapon hits you.
    And the Flamberge is a Dex weapon that does high damage and is much lighter than the Manserpent Greatsword
    Press up right as their attack hits to cancel the animation, parry, obtain setup parry.

    Ever heard of animation cancels? There are a ****-load in the game. I think the one you may know best is rolling out of a fall.

    By the way, Clay does 431 Damage at 16/40, as compared to the 445 of Flam at 16/40, and it's not even a Dex weapon. Clay also does more damage than Flam if you two-hand it.

    Where is your overpowered Dex Greatsword now.
    Don't forget that the flamberge can cause bleed, unlike the claymore, it can create high pressure on those who use greatshields or turtle with spears/rapiers
    Don't forget that Flamberge is a Greatsword, so bleeding someone out with it before you kill them is a blessing unless they're bare naked. Also, Claymore has a dead-angling R2 that does more damage than Flam R2, so it's not like turtles are a big problem.
    The Iaito's R2 can also dead-angle, the Mura's rolling R1 can dead-angle.

    Before you can respond, ask yourself, what is the Strength equivalent to Katanas?
    Maces and axes.


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    Re: Bring back Crushing weapons

    Post by Dibsville on Sat Jul 06, 2013 6:20 pm

    SadPanda wrote:
    Lmaousine wrote:The Iaito's R2 can also dead-angle, the Mura's rolling R1 can dead-angle.

    Before you can respond, ask yourself, what is the Strength equivalent to Katanas?
    Maces and axes.


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    Re: Bring back Crushing weapons

    Post by Lmaousine on Sat Jul 06, 2013 6:26 pm

    SadPanda wrote:
    Lmaousine wrote:
    Dibsville wrote:
    Lmaousine wrote:
    Dibsville wrote:
    Lmaousine wrote:
    Dibsville wrote:
    Lmaousine wrote:
    Dibsville wrote:All those except Mura do medium damage. Great Scythe is extremely easy to fight against since about 95% of people who use it are garbage with it.

    Tracer can be parried.
    Furysword can be parried.
    Katanas can be parried.


    Mura is a Greatsword, there's a reason it does high damage. Every Greatsword does high damage. That one is self-explanatory. There's no reason it shouldn't have high damage.
    But can those weapons be setup parried? Are they as easy to parry as say, a mace, or a greataxe?
    Also the Crystal Greatword is the only bad Greatsword
    And I forgot to mention the Flamberge, the R2 can deal high damage and it also causes bleeding.
    All of those can be setup parried.
    CGS is not a bad weapon, it's just outclassed when you, you know, beat the Depths.

    Flamberge is also a Greatsword, of course it does high damage.
    No they can't, curved swords and katanas are too fast to setup parry, you have to take the first hit and then parry right as the weapon hits you.
    And the Flamberge is a Dex weapon that does high damage and is much lighter than the Manserpent Greatsword
    Press up right as their attack hits to cancel the animation, parry, obtain setup parry.

    Ever heard of animation cancels? There are a ****-load in the game. I think the one you may know best is rolling out of a fall.

    By the way, Clay does 431 Damage at 16/40, as compared to the 445 of Flam at 16/40, and it's not even a Dex weapon. Clay also does more damage than Flam if you two-hand it.

    Where is your overpowered Dex Greatsword now.
    Don't forget that the flamberge can cause bleed, unlike the claymore, it can create high pressure on those who use greatshields or turtle with spears/rapiers
    Don't forget that Flamberge is a Greatsword, so bleeding someone out with it before you kill them is a blessing unless they're bare naked. Also, Claymore has a dead-angling R2 that does more damage than Flam R2, so it's not like turtles are a big problem.
    The Iaito's R2 can also dead-angle, the Mura's rolling R1 can dead-angle.

    Before you can respond, ask yourself, what is the Strength equivalent to Katanas?
    Maces and axes.
    Do Katanas stagger you when you miss with them?
    Do Katanas have short range?
    Do Katanas have a long swing time?
    Why isn't there a long sword that scales that strength?


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    Re: Bring back Crushing weapons

    Post by Dibsville on Sat Jul 06, 2013 6:30 pm

    Are you kidding me.

    Did you seriously just imply that Maces and Axes are not the strength version of Katanas simply because they're not fast?

    A strength weapon, fast?

    Dear God, please tell me you're trolling.


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    Re: Bring back Crushing weapons

    Post by SadPanda on Sat Jul 06, 2013 6:31 pm

    Lmaousine wrote:

    Why isn't there a long sword that scales that strength?
    All longswords scale with strength in some way. Like mentioned above, a longsword with 40 STR can easily hit 350 AR.


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    Re: Bring back Crushing weapons

    Post by Dibsville on Sat Jul 06, 2013 6:33 pm

    SadPanda wrote:
    Lmaousine wrote:

    Why isn't there a long sword that scales that strength?
    All longswords scale with strength in some way. Like mentioned above, a longsword with 40 STR can easily hit 350 AR.
    This. Most Straight Swords are quality weapons, they scale evenly with Strength and Dexterity. A Longsword at 27/40 does the same damage as a Longsword at 40/27. The only exceptions are the Balder Side Sword, Silver Knight Straightsword, Astora's Straightsword, and the Drake Sword.

    They do scale with Strength. Very well, in fact.


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    Re: Bring back Crushing weapons

    Post by Shakie666 on Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:11 pm

    Dibsville wrote:
    SadPanda wrote:
    Lmaousine wrote:

    Why isn't there a long sword that scales that strength?
    All longswords scale with strength in some way. Like mentioned above, a longsword with 40 STR can easily hit 350 AR.
    This. Most Straight Swords are quality weapons, they scale evenly with Strength and Dexterity. A Longsword at 27/40 does the same damage as a Longsword at 40/27. The only exceptions are the Balder Side Sword, Silver Knight Straightsword, Astora's Straightsword, and the Drake Sword.

    They do scale with Strength. Very well, in fact.

    I think he meant a long sword that scales mainly with str (i.e. is a str weapon). Kinda pointless when you think about it, that would just be the bss but with str instead of dex.

    By the way, hate to contradict you but the drake sword does the same damage at 27/40 and 40/27 silly
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    Re: Bring back Crushing weapons

    Post by Dibsville on Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:15 pm

    Shakie666 wrote:
    Dibsville wrote:
    SadPanda wrote:
    Lmaousine wrote:

    Why isn't there a long sword that scales that strength?
    All longswords scale with strength in some way. Like mentioned above, a longsword with 40 STR can easily hit 350 AR.
    This. Most Straight Swords are quality weapons, they scale evenly with Strength and Dexterity. A Longsword at 27/40 does the same damage as a Longsword at 40/27. The only exceptions are the Balder Side Sword, Silver Knight Straightsword, Astora's Straightsword, and the Drake Sword.

    They do scale with Strength. Very well, in fact.

    I think he meant a long sword that scales mainly with str (i.e. is a str weapon). Kinda pointless when you think about it, that would just be the bss but with str instead of dex.

    By the way, hate to contradict you but the drake sword does the same damage at 27/40 and 40/27 silly
    But.. but...
    I meant scaling. crying 


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    Re: Bring back Crushing weapons

    Post by Lmaousine on Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:28 pm

    Dibsville wrote:Are you kidding me.

    Did you seriously just imply that Maces and Axes are not the strength version of Katanas simply because they're not fast?

    A strength weapon, fast?

    Dear God, please tell me you're trolling.

     The stagger animation is very annoying, I wouldn't mind the slow swing speed if you didn't stagger everytime you miss with a mace or axe, a good player will most likely backstab you if you miss with a mace or axe.

    I hate the fact that you swing slowly and staggers you for missing, remove the staggering effect, leave the slow swing in and you have yourself a balanced Str weapon for PvP


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    Re: Bring back Crushing weapons

    Post by Dibsville on Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:32 pm

    Lmaousine wrote:
    Dibsville wrote:Are you kidding me.

    Did you seriously just imply that Maces and Axes are not the strength version of Katanas simply because they're not fast?

    A strength weapon, fast?

    Dear God, please tell me you're trolling.

     The stagger animation is very annoying, I wouldn't mind the slow swing speed if you didn't stagger everytime you miss with a mace or axe, a good player will most likely backstab you if you miss with a mace or axe.

    I hate the fact that you swing slowly and staggers you for missing, remove the staggering effect, leave the slow swing in and you have yourself a balanced Str weapon for PvP
    Absolutely not. If you miss with a Hammer or Axe, that's your own fault. Without that stagger, they would be overpowered, it's that simple.

    Do you know how fast it attacks if you actually hit something? Without that whiff, Hammers and Axes would be the most broken weapon in game. No questions asked. High damage, high poise break, stunlocks well, light-weight, and impossible to strafe around for a backstab without major lag, due to it being so fast.

    There are a few things I can debate about, but this is not one of them. That whiff is absolutely required to keep the balance. They're already powerful as they currently are.


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    Re: Bring back Crushing weapons

    Post by Lmaousine on Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:42 pm

    Dibsville wrote:
    Lmaousine wrote:
    Dibsville wrote:Are you kidding me.

    Did you seriously just imply that Maces and Axes are not the strength version of Katanas simply because they're not fast?

    A strength weapon, fast?

    Dear God, please tell me you're trolling.

     The stagger animation is very annoying, I wouldn't mind the slow swing speed if you didn't stagger everytime you miss with a mace or axe, a good player will most likely backstab you if you miss with a mace or axe.

    I hate the fact that you swing slowly and staggers you for missing, remove the staggering effect, leave the slow swing in and you have yourself a balanced Str weapon for PvP
    Absolutely not. If you miss with a Hammer or Axe, that's your own fault. Without that stagger, they would be overpowered, it's that simple.

    Do you know how fast it attacks if you actually hit something? Without that whiff, Hammers and Axes would be the most broken weapon in game. No questions asked. High damage, high poise break, stunlocks well, light-weight, and impossible to strafe around for a backstab without major lag, due to it being so fast.

    That whiff is necessary to balance them out. They're already powerful as is.

    There are a few things I can debate about, but this is not one of them. That whiff is absolutely required to keep the balance.
    Hammers and Axes have a slow windup time.
    Their range is very short compared to other standard weapons, the only axe with decent range is the Butcher Knife but with its 10 unit weight the Manserpent Greatsword is the better choice for a Strength build.
    If anything the Axes and Hammers in this game would need to swing faster or just remove the staggering effect completely to even be close to balanced.


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    Re: Bring back Crushing weapons

    Post by Dibsville on Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:44 pm

    No, they have fast windup's, especially for how much power they have. Also, I think you're forgetting the Crescent Axe and Gargoyle Tail Axe.


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    Re: Bring back Crushing weapons

    Post by Lmaousine on Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:52 pm

    Dibsville wrote:No, they have fast windup's, especially for how much power they have. Also, I think you're forgetting the Crescent Axe and Gargoyle Tail Axe.

    Crescent Axe has split damage
    Gargoyle Tail Axe is a dex weapon, if you have high dex you might as well use a katana


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    Re: Bring back Crushing weapons

    Post by Dibsville on Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:53 pm

    Look Skyward 
    Wasn't the point, but okay.


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    Re: Bring back Crushing weapons

    Post by ResIsBestStat on Sat Jul 06, 2013 8:01 pm

    Dude really.
    Strength weapons while slow break poise like pro and deal heavy damage, I also find the stagger animation annoying but it won't matter once you get used to it.
    Str vs Dex= Greataxe>Uchi

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