Strenght Build weapons

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    Strenght Build weapons

    Post by FAMISIL1 on Fri Jul 05, 2013 8:18 pm

    What are the most favored ones?
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    Re: Strenght Build weapons

    Post by Dibsville on Fri Jul 05, 2013 8:56 pm

    Greataxe, Mace, Demon's Great Hammer, Large Club, Zweihander, MSGS


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    Re: Strenght Build weapons

    Post by RANT on Fri Jul 05, 2013 11:21 pm

    Zwei is not a str weapon, its quality since it doesn't shine until either 27/40 or 40/40. Anyway,  I would say reinforced club, msgs, great/large club, demon/greataxe, butcher knife, DGM, and Smith giant hammer. Those are some of the most used and the ones I like the most.


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    Re: Strenght Build weapons

    Post by Dibsville on Fri Jul 05, 2013 11:23 pm

    Look Skyward 
    Don't care about the end result, it's a Strength weapon. C/D/-/- makes it a Strength weapon. It acts like a quality weapon, but a strength weapon is still a strength weapon.


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    Re: Strenght Build weapons

    Post by RANT on Fri Jul 05, 2013 11:24 pm

    No.


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    Re: Strenght Build weapons

    Post by Dibsville on Fri Jul 05, 2013 11:27 pm

    Zwei gets more benefit from leveling Strength, it's a strength weapon.


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    Re: Strenght Build weapons

    Post by RANT on Sat Jul 06, 2013 12:16 am

    Thanks for pointing out the obvious, what I mean is it doesn't shine until you have quality stats so it is not a str weapon, people wouldn't use it with no dex since its actually pretty weak without it. Meh,  that's just my opinion, don't feel like going back and forth with this.


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    Re: Strenght Build weapons

    Post by Dibsville on Sat Jul 06, 2013 12:33 am

    It doesn't shine until it has quality stats, that doesn't make it any less of a strength weapon.


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    Re: Strenght Build weapons

    Post by RANT on Sat Jul 06, 2013 12:49 am

    *sigh*


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    Re: Strenght Build weapons

    Post by ScottyDoesKnow on Sat Jul 06, 2013 1:14 am

    I have to agree with RANT here. Strength weapons are weapons that are good for a strength-only build. I guess you can call it a strength weapon because it scales mostly on strength, but defining it that way serves no useful purpose and just confuses people.

    "Zweihander is a great strength weapon, but it's not good for a strength build." Confusing.

    Edit: And after rereading the original post he asked for good strength build weapons, not good strength weapons. So either way you define it zwei doesn't belong.
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    Re: Strenght Build weapons

    Post by Dibsville on Sat Jul 06, 2013 1:18 am

    Wonder how many people will tell me Zwei is a quality weapon by the time I wake up tomorrow morning, if any.


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    Re: Strenght Build weapons

    Post by SirArchmage on Sat Jul 06, 2013 3:05 am

    Dibsville wrote:Wonder how many people will tell me Zwei is a quality weapon by the time I wake up tomorrow morning, if any.
    Well......It is. I'd listen to the strength guru Rant. But anyways

    My favorite ones are the Greataxe, Large club and, not sure if this counts, but Havel Shield.

    Both are pretty incredible to use, with Greataxe being one of the top three weapons I use. Havel shield because it is like carrying around a wall. No one is getting past you when you have that up.

    "But what if they have a shotel?"

    SHUT UP!


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    Re: Strenght Build weapons

    Post by Jansports on Sat Jul 06, 2013 9:33 am

    I've called the Zwei a quality weapon since forever. To me when identifying a weapon you should do so based on which standard build it would perform best with. So the Large Club is easily a strength weapon.  While it does have some str scaling the Rapier is still a dex weapon, not a quality weapon. And to me the Zwei has always been a quality weapon because that's where it shines.

    Anyhow I think the Blackknight GreatAxe is the coolest looking strength weapon, and it used to be one of my favorites to use in general. But it's damage is really wonky. Comparing it's AR to other UGA weapons it's 2hr1 swings do unusually low damage, and it poise breaks much lower than the others as well. It really got torn apart from the bad HornetBSFish reputation it had.
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    Re: Strenght Build weapons

    Post by Halicarnassis on Sat Jul 06, 2013 10:24 am

    I'm gonna have to agree with Rant here - purely as i rate a quality weapon scales with both Str and Dex?


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    Re: Strenght Build weapons

    Post by Dibsville on Sat Jul 06, 2013 2:35 pm

    Halicarnassis wrote:I'm gonna have to agree with Rant here - purely as i rate a quality weapon scales with both Str and Dex?
    So Dark Silver Tracer is a quality weapon? At 40 Dex, +15 Rapier outdamages it for backstabs and Ripostes once you reach 17 Str, so I don't think DST is getting much better for leveling Str too much.


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    Re: Strenght Build weapons

    Post by Shakie666 on Sat Jul 06, 2013 5:23 pm

    I agree with Rant. Having a high str requirement doesn't make it a str weapon, because you also need 40 dex for it to be any good. Conversely, the dragon king's greataxe is a strength weapon despite not scaling with it, because you need a high str to use it effectively.

    My very favourite str weapon is the demon's greataxe, great damage, weird parry timing and the 1h r2 is good for hitting bs fishers.

    By the way: can greataxe's stunlock? Never really tried it, I always assumed they were too slow.
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    Re: Strenght Build weapons

    Post by Dibsville on Sat Jul 06, 2013 5:25 pm

    Zwei has over 500 AR with 40 STR and 10 DEX.
    Doesn't really need the Dex to be good. Look Skyward 


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    Re: Strenght Build weapons

    Post by Shakie666 on Sat Jul 06, 2013 5:37 pm

    Dibsville wrote:Zwei has over 500 AR with 40 STR and 10 DEX.
    Doesn't really need the Dex to be good. Look Skyward 

     DGM has over 600 AR with 40 str and 8 dex.

    Doesn't need dex at all to be good. Look Skyward
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    Re: Strenght Build weapons

    Post by Dibsville on Sat Jul 06, 2013 5:39 pm

    Shakie666 wrote:
    Dibsville wrote:Zwei has over 500 AR with 40 STR and 10 DEX.
    Doesn't really need the Dex to be good. Look Skyward 

     DGM has over 600 AR with 40 str and 8 dex.

    Doesn't need dex at all to be good. Look Skyward
    I know, I never said the DGM wasn't a Strength weapon though, you guys are saying Zwei is a quality weapon even though it doesn't need the quality features to be good.

    Look Skyward 


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    Re: Strenght Build weapons

    Post by Forum Pirate on Sat Jul 06, 2013 5:43 pm

    Dibsville wrote:Zwei has over 500 AR with 40 STR and 10 DEX.
    Doesn't really need the Dex to be good. Look Skyward 
    Are you high? http://mmdks.com/31f0

    The man serpen greatsword does the same amount of damage at 40 str and 10 dex, and its faster. The large club has 100 more ar for the same weight, and the dgm can be farmed and thus be made crystal and get up to 688 ar, which is 160 more than the zweih at the same stats.

    If you're using the +15 zweih, and you don't have at least 30 dex and 27 str, you are wasting your time when there are faster and/or stronger weapons (one of which has the same basic moveset)

    The zweih is a quality weapon. Its a full 100 ar short if you try to go at strength instead, which means it does the same damage as the msgs, while swinging half as fast.


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    Re: Strenght Build weapons

    Post by Dibsville on Sat Jul 06, 2013 5:45 pm

    It's still good, 500 AR is insane.

    There are just better choices.

    That's like comparing CGS to any other Greatsword with the same stats.

    Except in this case, the Zwei is actually good.


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    Re: Strenght Build weapons

    Post by Forum Pirate on Sat Jul 06, 2013 5:51 pm

    Dibsville wrote:It's still good, 500 AR is insane.

    There are just better choices.

    That's like comparing CGS to any other Greatsword with the same stats.

    Except in this case, the Zwei is actually good.
    500 ar is not insane. The uchi is 420. The great scythe is 474. With the ultra great swords and great hammers/axes, its plain not worth the low speed and high weight unless its more than 600, otherwise you're dealing the same damage as AND slower than weapons a class down (eg great swords/axes/hammers/halberds.)

    An lightning zweih will out damage a zweih a 40str/10 dex.


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    Re: Strenght Build weapons

    Post by Shakie666 on Sat Jul 06, 2013 5:54 pm

    Hey, don't dis the CGS, at +15 its damage is insane!

    Seriously though, the zwei isn't a good "str" weapon when you consider that other str weapons aren't just better, they make it completely obselete. There's just no reason why a pure str build would use a zwei over any of the weapons pirate mentioned.

    EDIT: Incidentally, based on what pirate said about an elemental zwei out-damaging a +15 at 40 str and 10 dex, this becomes the ultimate str build silly


    Last edited by Shakie666 on Sat Jul 06, 2013 5:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Re: Strenght Build weapons

    Post by Dibsville on Sat Jul 06, 2013 5:56 pm

    325/325 split does not outdamage 528 pure.

    Again, it's just outclassed by other weapons. Also, you named pure Dex weapons to compare to the Zwei? Try something that's a little closer to Quality like the Zwei is if you're going to compare the two in terms of scaling.

    Also, Zwei has the moveset. While other weapons are better than it, moveset still comes in to play as well.

    Explain why people use Iaito over the other Katanas.


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    Re: Strenght Build weapons

    Post by Shakie666 on Sat Jul 06, 2013 6:01 pm

    Dibsville wrote:325/325 split does not outdamage 528 pure.

    Again, it's just outclassed by other weapons. Also, you named pure Dex weapons to compare to the Zwei? Try something that's a little closer to Quality like the Zwei is if you're going to compare the two in terms of scaling.

    Also, Zwei has the moveset. While other weapons are better than it, moveset still comes in to play as well.

    Explain why people use Iaito over the other Katanas.

    I don't know about you, but i've never seen anyone use the Iaito's R2 attacks in serious pvp.

    The fact that the zwei is outclassed by other str weapons automatically makes it bad, since (by definition of being outclassed) it has no redeeming features. There's nothing the zwei can do that the pure str weapons can't do better.

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