Standard PvP in Dark Souls is atrocious

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    Re: Standard PvP in Dark Souls is atrocious

    Post by Leet on Thu Jul 04, 2013 10:34 pm

    Look Skyward 


    Animal is right. You'll simply be eatin alive if you can't BS or counter BS. Set up "rules" would be the only way to stop it.

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    Re: Standard PvP in Dark Souls is atrocious

    Post by Acarnatia on Fri Jul 05, 2013 12:03 am

    My only issues with bses are:
    1: too big of a hitbox
    2: lag. they can't really help this, though, so I usually accept it
    3: roll bses are occasionally absurd.

    I like the presence of bses and their importance. I dislike how easy lag makes it to abuse.


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    Re: Standard PvP in Dark Souls is atrocious

    Post by ScottyDoesKnow on Fri Jul 05, 2013 1:01 am

    I'm pretty new to PvP so the worst for me is the people who can just run at me and then I'm getting backstabbed. I don't know how to fix it, but if I'm locked on and not in the middle of an attack/spell/whatever there should be 0 chance of them backstabbing me.

    Edit: Actually there may be a fairly easy way to fix it. If the game communicated not just your facing angle but also whether you're locked on or not, it could calculate the lock on both sides and this shouldn't happen. Of course that only solves the one issue and who knows what other problems it may cause. Shrug
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    Re: Standard PvP in Dark Souls is atrocious

    Post by O1va_ on Fri Jul 05, 2013 4:38 am

    ScottyDoesKnow wrote:I'm pretty new to PvP so the worst for me is the people who can just run at me and then I'm getting backstabbed. I don't know how to fix it, but if I'm locked on and not in the middle of an attack/spell/whatever there should be 0 chance of them backstabbing me.

    This actually is the situation right now. All you have to do is walk away from your opponent while locked on and its impossible to BS you (not counting extreme lag, cause thats something that screws up every ohter aspect of a fight as well). Pay attention when you're getting BSd, if you got roll BSd its probably cause you were too predictable with a slow weapon, or casting too close to your opponent. If you see someone running at you, its possible they're going for BS, solution is to walk backwards -> BS evaded, or just counter BS. Lag makes things difficult, but no BS is unavoidable (still not counting extreme lag). One way to understand this is to BS fish yourself, you'll see that without your opponent making a mistake, its allmost impossible to BS someone.

    You are new to PvP, so its understandable that BSs seem cheap and unavoidable, but if you'll take the time to understand the mechanics behind it you'll save yourself alot of headache, and can actually enjoy PvP outside the fight clubs aswell without feeling being cheated at times.
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    Re: Standard PvP in Dark Souls is atrocious

    Post by Saturday-Saint on Fri Jul 05, 2013 5:47 am

    IMO people look at backstabs wrong. Most of the gameplay involved in backstabs is not people deciding to backstab. The gameplay is about positioning yourself for the BS. If you look at it as somebody going for a BS over and over again, it's gonna seem dumb and degenerate. If you look at it as how they are choosing to position themselves in order to land the BS, it becomes a lot more interesting. Fun, even.


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    Re: Standard PvP in Dark Souls is atrocious

    Post by Animaaal on Fri Jul 05, 2013 4:19 pm

    Debt paid. Bow 

    About back peddling...

    It's good advice, especially if you're in an open area.  There's only one problem with that though.

    Your inability to "run" while back peddling will put you at a disadvantage when facing a fast-rolling backstab build.  They will simply lock off, chase you down, and (depending if you are locked on and pivoting) roll bs you, or just adjust which shoulder they are going for and employ the lock off backstab.

    It's good advice, but back peddling will not stop a good bs fisher.  The best tactic for this (depending on your weapon) is to counter backstab, or dead angle their attempt.

    It also will not work in a smaller arena, you will however, be able to put your back against a wall in confined areas by back peddling.
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    Re: Standard PvP in Dark Souls is atrocious

    Post by Leet on Fri Jul 05, 2013 7:29 pm

    Just learn to backstab, and being able to counter backstab will come with it.

    You have to understand the backstabbing mechanics, to understand how to stop them.

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    Re: Standard PvP in Dark Souls is atrocious

    Post by sparkly-twinkly-lizard on Fri Jul 05, 2013 11:00 pm

    I have a fatty havel build... the shield r2 buff prevents curved sword spam, the dragon greatsword deadangles the bs attempts, and the shield eats magic alive. I'm still practicing dead angles but this thing is great except for the fatroll, also since im fat rolling and havels ring doesn't make me mid-roll I can pop on a hornet ring for counter fishing too.

    best weapons for bs cancel im0:
    quelaggs furysword two handed
    All ultra great swords,
    gargoyles tail axe (the reach it has)
    butchers knife (same as above)
    Demons greataxe  1 handed r2
    And for me at least two-handed whips.


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    Re: Standard PvP in Dark Souls is atrocious

    Post by hbm6 on Sat Jul 06, 2013 2:10 am

    backstab fishing doesn't annoy me as much as these min-maxed health builds and parry fishers and whores, the amount of kicks i have to do in these matches with these so called pros is absurd. I really hope in dark souls 2 they fix all of these pvp problems.
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    Re: Standard PvP in Dark Souls is atrocious

    Post by Latitoast on Sat Jul 06, 2013 2:46 am

    I recently summoned someone to duel me, Gravelord Sword, what looked like a Heater Shield, and the Sealer's Robes

    As soon as he spawned he started circling.

    Halberd R2 stunned him, then went into some R1s to stunlock and kill. :l


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    Re: Standard PvP in Dark Souls is atrocious

    Post by Soris Ice Goldwing on Sat Jul 06, 2013 3:00 am

    Yeah I see it more often now. It is getting a bit to copy and paste with a lot of people I have fought recently. The biggest thing is a bs as a finisher move which normally means death for me if they have a greatsword. The bright side is they think stunlock is a good idea but I parry them on the second swing.


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    Re: Standard PvP in Dark Souls is atrocious

    Post by roanispe on Sat Jul 06, 2013 4:34 am

    Animaaal wrote:Your inability to "run" while back peddling will put you at a disadvantage when facing a fast-rolling backstab build.  They will simply lock off, chase you down, and (depending if you are locked on and pivoting) roll bs you, or just adjust which shoulder they are going for and employ the lock off backstab.

     Doing a pivot stab when a person is simply holding back is absurdly difficult, and leaves you very open to counters. I have not met anyone capable of doing it with any semblance of regularity, and I put in a concerted effort into finding capable players, nor can I do it often. It is much more possible against people who are strafing, but simply holding back with lock-on will foil almost every attempt unless you run it to some anomalous player where simple tips will do no good.


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    Re: Standard PvP in Dark Souls is atrocious

    Post by Saturday-Saint on Sat Jul 06, 2013 4:53 am

    I used to be able to do it fairly consistently in Demon's Souls.  I'm not sure if the reason I can't do it in Dark Souls is lack of practice—for a while in Demon's Souls I did pivot BS exclusively unlocked, while in Dark Souls I have always used it with lock-on—or if it's because Demon's Souls had more lag and made it a bit easier.

    In any case it is very hard to do.  I cannot do it in Demon's Souls anymore, but frankly I am terrible at any kind of unlocked BS'ing these days. If you run into somebody using it, you're not going to learn how to beat them by talking about it on here.


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    Re: Standard PvP in Dark Souls is atrocious

    Post by roanispe on Sat Jul 06, 2013 6:36 am

    I think it'd be easier in Demon Souls because of the faster running speed. The biggest problem there is right now to accomplish an unlocked pivot is the time it takes to cover the distance, and the unwieldiness of making sure the approach doesn't shift the back away. Another big problem I've noted is how willing the game is to make you do the pivot on the spot animation unless you do the full rotation on the stick. It's not even really a useful tool to have for many weapons; only the big hitting sticks are really improved by it and only in certain match ups does it really shine.

    I wouldn't worry about the safety of walking back being violated in the game's lifetime.


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    Re: Standard PvP in Dark Souls is atrocious

    Post by Animaaal on Sat Jul 06, 2013 11:17 am

    roanispe wrote:
    Animaaal wrote:Your inability to "run" while back peddling will put you at a disadvantage when facing a fast-rolling backstab build.  They will simply lock off, chase you down, and (depending if you are locked on and pivoting) roll bs you, or just adjust which shoulder they are going for and employ the lock off backstab.

     Doing a pivot stab when a person is simply holding back is absurdly difficult, and leaves you very open to counters. I have not met anyone capable of doing it with any semblance of regularity, and I put in a concerted effort into finding capable players, nor can I do it often. It is much more possible against people who are strafing, but simply holding back with lock-on will foil almost every attempt unless you run it to some anomalous player where simple tips will do no good.

    I also said it was good advice.  I'm simply saying if you're ONLY strategy is to lock on and walk backwards, there are counters for it.

    Also, Scotty never states if he/she is fast rolling or mid rolling.  As much trouble as he appears to be having, employing this tactic without doing anything else will still leave him open to situational backstabs, in which case he might come back here and say, "I'm back peddling a lot, and still getting backstabbed...what am I doing wrong?"

    I didn't mean to make it sound like it was as easy as parrying a dagger spammer, I was just telling him there is a way to counter back peddling.  Also, by the time you catch up to a back peddler, you can always lock on a pivot stab.

    I apologize if I made it sound arbitrary, using the word "simply" implies that, that was not my intention.  Again, that's why I started with "That's good advice".

    Lastly, I think the use of the word "absurdly" is a little bit of a stretch.  It's not easy for sure, but its not as hard as parrying combustions, or forcing arrows.
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    Re: Standard PvP in Dark Souls is atrocious

    Post by Leet on Sat Jul 06, 2013 11:41 am

    hbm6 wrote:backstab fishing doesn't annoy me as much as these min-maxed health builds and parry fishers and whores, the amount of kicks i have to do in these matches with these so called pros is absurd. I really hope in dark souls 2 they fix all of these pvp problems.

     Parry fishers? If you get parried that's your fault plain and simple lol. What do whores have to do with Dark Souls?


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    Re: Standard PvP in Dark Souls is atrocious

    Post by hbm6 on Sat Jul 06, 2013 2:52 pm

    TooLeet wrote:
    hbm6 wrote:backstab fishing doesn't annoy me as much as these min-maxed health builds and parry fishers and whores, the amount of kicks i have to do in these matches with these so called pros is absurd. I really hope in dark souls 2 they fix all of these pvp problems.

     Parry fishers? If you get parried that's your fault plain and simple lol. What do whores have to do with Dark Souls?

     judging by your name and pic do I need to say anymore lol
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    Re: Standard PvP in Dark Souls is atrocious

    Post by Soris Ice Goldwing on Sat Jul 06, 2013 2:55 pm

    Parry fishers are freaking easy to kill. Never had an issue and get enough mail asking how I killed them. Timing people you need to time your parries if you want to riposte them.


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    Re: Standard PvP in Dark Souls is atrocious

    Post by Dibsville on Sat Jul 06, 2013 2:56 pm

    I prefer fighting parry spammers than backstab fishers.

    For the simple reason that I fight unlocked, so the chance of me getting parried is low. On top of that, if I see they're fishing, I can just backstab punish them. Parry fishers are one of the few people I will backstab in a duel.

    Actually, they're the only people I ever backstab frequently besides gankers or backstab fishers.

    Parry fishers are quite honestly the easiest type of people to kill in the game.

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    Re: Standard PvP in Dark Souls is atrocious

    Post by Leet on Sat Jul 06, 2013 3:14 pm

    hbm6 wrote:
    TooLeet wrote:
    hbm6 wrote:backstab fishing doesn't annoy me as much as these min-maxed health builds and parry fishers and whores, the amount of kicks i have to do in these matches with these so called pros is absurd. I really hope in dark souls 2 they fix all of these pvp problems.

     Parry fishers? If you get parried that's your fault plain and simple lol. What do whores have to do with Dark Souls?

     judging by your name and pic do I need to say anymore lol

     

    My name? Leet? And my pic? A zwei build with pyro in my left hand? Yes, please say more.

     

    Edit: Nvm, don't say more. Your -3 rep says enough. Proper Bow


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    Re: Standard PvP in Dark Souls is atrocious

    Post by hbm6 on Sat Jul 06, 2013 3:25 pm

    Soris Ice Goldwing wrote:Parry fishers are freaking easy to kill. Never had an issue and get enough mail asking how I killed them. Timing people you need to time your parries if you want to riposte them.

     i never had a problem with them in fighting them in pvp, i just found that their play style in pvp is pretty much going for criticals, just like the back stab fishers, except the players are being punished for attacking and not playing badly.

    I'm guessing you guys haven't fought as many guys in pvp as me or your just flat out better than me in pvp. TDK, but I feel it is kind of boring fighting people who rely on crits to win every fight.
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    Re: Standard PvP in Dark Souls is atrocious

    Post by Dibsville on Sat Jul 06, 2013 3:27 pm

    Try PvPing in the Moonpit.

    Good luck dealing with those parry fishers, they actually know what they're doing.


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    Re: Standard PvP in Dark Souls is atrocious

    Post by Soris Ice Goldwing on Sat Jul 06, 2013 3:30 pm

    I fought many of them for a long time so I have some tricks to kill them. Not some much for the good ones now they are not to mess with. The bs kill has annoyed me but then I needed to practice how to counter them so they actually help me than bother me. Also I love to finish a fight with a parry. That is so fun for me to do.


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    Re: Standard PvP in Dark Souls is atrocious

    Post by hbm6 on Sat Jul 06, 2013 3:37 pm

    TooLeet wrote:
    hbm6 wrote:
    TooLeet wrote:
    hbm6 wrote:backstab fishing doesn't annoy me as much as these min-maxed health builds and parry fishers and whores, the amount of kicks i have to do in these matches with these so called pros is absurd. I really hope in dark souls 2 they fix all of these pvp problems.

     Parry fishers? If you get parried that's your fault plain and simple lol. What do whores have to do with Dark Souls?

     judging by your name and pic do I need to say anymore lol

     

    My name? Leet? And my pic? A zwei build with pyro in my left hand? Yes, please say more.

     

    Edit: Nvm, don't say more. Your -3 rep says enough. Proper Bow

    what is rep? does it make a difference? really what does it say? confused

    If this is how new members to these forums are treated, than I don't know what to say... I wasn't being rude nor did I offend anyone, I just stated my opinion, and just because you felt like I was attacking your play style.
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    Re: Standard PvP in Dark Souls is atrocious

    Post by Dibsville on Sat Jul 06, 2013 3:40 pm

    Rep is a way of other people knowing how trustworthy you can be, as well as how much quality you put into your posts. If someone with 5 rep makes a post, then another person with 40 rep makes a post, the 40 rep person will tend to be more trusted than the 5 rep person.

    Stupid posts will get you negative rep, whereas helpful or sometimes funny posts will get you positive rep.

    It only makes a difference to people who actually want to know how trustworthy someone is.


    Edit: New players are normally not treated this way, but this is something that "veteran" players tend to take seriously. As such, you were negatively repped for something you may or may not have realised was wrong. While you may have been stating your opinion, others saw you as simply being a douchebag or a troll.

    Again, this IS NOT how we normally treat new players.


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