heavy difficulty increase in ng+...

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    heavy difficulty increase in ng+...

    Post by Micha369 on Tue Jul 02, 2013 4:53 pm

    Hello folks,

    I have managed the ng with my strength char pretty easily with sl 40.
    Then ng+ in 1-1 was also easy. No dying!
    Then after 1-1 I went to 4-1 and it was terrible! I always died somehow! Didn't managed the mini boss, always failed with the bp skeletons as well!

    I had to increase my sl from 40 to 76! Now it seems to function. But the Boss 4-1 (the fat guy) still one hit kills me even with my dark silver shield+5 up! I really lose the pleasure! It is so frustrating!

    When I played the dex build the first few playthroughs it was by far not so hard. I leveled up to about 110 in the ng though. So ng+ was managable.

    What kind of experiance do you have? What is a good sl for ng+ strength build?

    EDIT: This fat 4-1 boss is rediculous! He very slightly moves his sword and I'm dead! This is stupide! One doesn't see this! This guy is so fat that one has no chance to dodge! The complete room is filled with fat and thick air!

    EDIT: here I see that my vitality is too low! I need to level up even more! If I don't survive one hit with at least a very little hp left I can forget this fight!
    Thanks for your help!


    Last edited by Micha369 on Wed Jul 03, 2013 3:42 am; edited 1 time in total


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    Re: heavy difficulty increase in ng+...

    Post by Dibsville on Tue Jul 02, 2013 5:29 pm

    First of all, you're going to want to grab at least 40 Vitality before you continue doing runs in NG+. Just beat the 4-1 boss and do the usual 4-2 farming run (where you kill the Necro and all the Shadow People drop souls) to gain more souls and level up your Vitality.

    Killing the 4-1 boss is easy. Get up next to where you hit him, bash on him until he's about to swing, and move behind his hand. The swing will completely miss, and you can go back to his cut and continue hitting him. Just rinse and repeat until he's dead.

    Other than that, NG+ is not something you can just bum rush. You need to take your time, especially with a Strength build. Simply don't try to be too greedy, be more defensive than you normally would, and you'll be completely fine. NG+ takes patience.


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    Re: heavy difficulty increase in ng+...

    Post by Sentiel on Tue Jul 02, 2013 5:58 pm

    As Dibs said, try to stay on the side of the boss that has the part of the Meat Cleaver stuck in his stomach and as soon as he moves to swing just move to your right (while locked on) to avoid the swing.
    Alternatively, if you have acess to spells or ranged attacks, you can attack the bird on his head directly.

    Try to raise your Vit and End to be able to fast roll. It will make things much easier for you, especially since there's no Poise in Demon's Souls, so tanking can be a problem. 

    I replied about your shield issue in another thread, but to be sure. You're best to leave Dark Silver Shield for enemies that cast spells as it blocks 100% Magic, but it has low Stability, so you'd be better of with another shield. I always used Knight Shield and I think it's the best medium shield for blocking Physical attacks, but with enough Str, you can use greatshields too. With those, you should have no problem blocking even on NG+.

    In Demon's Souls enemies in the current world scale on your SL. The higher SL you have when you first enter the world, the tougher the enemies there will be.

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    Re: heavy difficulty increase in ng+...

    Post by Micha369 on Wed Jul 03, 2013 3:54 am

    Sentiel wrote:In Demon's Souls enemies in the current world scale on your SL. The higher SL you have when you first enter the world, the tougher the enemies there will be.

    This is completely new for me! This is unbelievable!
    Does this mean, I could have entered the boss' room with sl 40 and then come back after having increased to sl 80 and the boss would be a piece of cake?


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    Re: heavy difficulty increase in ng+...

    Post by densetsushun on Wed Jul 03, 2013 4:00 am

    Sentiel wrote:In Demon's Souls enemies in the current world scale on your SL. The higher SL you have when you first enter the world, the tougher the enemies there will be.

    What's the source for that, Senty?


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    Re: heavy difficulty increase in ng+...

    Post by Sentiel on Wed Jul 03, 2013 4:26 am

    I remember reading about it somewhere. I had to do a lot of digging around and found out that this was a misinformation, somehow created by the strategy guide that was in the Black Phantom Edition of the game. It was created by misunderstanding the Wolrd Tendencies and assuming that it was the player's SL that created the difference between enemies and BPs.

    Just like Dark Souls, even Demon's Souls had a lot of false information flying around, but unlike now, I wasn't a part of the community back then, so I only read the info, but never sticked around to see people disapprove it. I may have more of false info like this and think it's actually correct...

    I apologize.

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    Re: heavy difficulty increase in ng+...

    Post by densetsushun on Wed Jul 03, 2013 5:18 am

    Misinformation happens on the internet, it's cool. It seems that the strategy guide that came with the Black Phantom edition was riddled with false information, so much so that Atlus took down their Wiki(which had the same info) and redirected to the wikispaces one.


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    Re: heavy difficulty increase in ng+...

    Post by Micha369 on Wed Jul 03, 2013 6:45 am

    This is what I thought about the souls games! They don't scale the enemies' power with my current sl! We don't play TES - Oblivion here, do we?


    Thanks!


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    Re: heavy difficulty increase in ng+...

    Post by Sentiel on Wed Jul 03, 2013 7:56 am

    The information in question had two versions.

    First was that enemies scale on your SL when you first enter the world. So, it was advised to enter each of the worlds as soon as possible to make the enemies easier when you return there to actually clear the world oh higher SL.

    Second was that enemies on NG+ scale by SL you had when you cleared the game. So the higher SL you had when you defeated the Final Boss, the tougher the enemies in NG+ will be.

    I don't have the Official Guide anymore, but by digging over the net, people claim these both informations to be present in the guide and it's probably also where I got them from.

    Upon further search both of these seem to be false, given by numerous people saying it was all a misinformation. There was actually quite a consipracy theory behind this as well, but I'll drop that matter, because the involved parties cannot defend themselves here.

    Anyway, the important part is that enemies only get stronger, or weaker thanks to World Tendency and also get stronger by moving into NG+ and beyond.

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    Re: heavy difficulty increase in ng+...

    Post by skarekrow13 on Wed Jul 03, 2013 10:44 am

    Sentiel, I would have debunked that pretty quickly.  One of the first things I did when I could was enter the Shrine of Storms world.  They sure as heck weren't scaled down.  I used that world as a guide to my progress.  I would periodically enter and test my mettle against the skeletons.  It took a long time to match them.

    On topic, I just recently tried playing again. I only have one character who is mid 200s SL. I forget which game I'm on but it's still not easy.

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    Re: heavy difficulty increase in ng+...

    Post by Micha369 on Wed Jul 03, 2013 2:00 pm

    Hello folks,

    You are right! A big part of my problem (ng+ is so much more difficult than ng) was the wrong shield!
    I have switched to the purple shield. And no armor needed! This is a big heavy shield (with 100% fire protection, btw). But PB skeletons are no problem anymore and this fat boss was down very easily! My Vitality is still only 30. My sl is now 85.

    Thanks!


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    Re: heavy difficulty increase in ng+...

    Post by densetsushun on Wed Jul 03, 2013 2:16 pm

    The adjudicator is an easy boss even without a shield, just attack his broken off meatcleaver(the piece of metal sticking out of his belly) and just run around his fat body, he won't be able to hit you and you can get hits in between his attacks to bring him down.


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    Re: heavy difficulty increase in ng+...

    Post by Walter_White on Wed Jul 03, 2013 2:18 pm

    cheese adjucator?
    stay upstairs and shoot the bird with a bow or ranged magic


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    Re: heavy difficulty increase in ng+...

    Post by Micha369 on Thu Jul 04, 2013 5:06 am

    I usually don't like shooting with long distance weapons at bosses. The only exception I do accept is the dragons the Armored Spider in 2-1. Here I have no melee strategy and I always die!


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    Re: heavy difficulty increase in ng+...

    Post by Dibsville on Thu Jul 04, 2013 10:52 am

    But...
    Adjudicator is easier than Pinwheel...
    How does one not cheese him?


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    Re: heavy difficulty increase in ng+...

    Post by Sentiel on Thu Jul 04, 2013 4:58 pm

    Sorry Dibs, but Pinwheel is the easiest boss in all of Souls.

    Only shame is that you can't plunge attack on Adjudicator's head. It would be epic.

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    Re: heavy difficulty increase in ng+...

    Post by Dibsville on Thu Jul 04, 2013 4:59 pm

    Sentiel wrote:Sorry Dibs, but Pinwheel is the easiest boss in all of Souls.

    Only shame is that you can't plunge attack on Adjudicator's head. It would be epic.
    No, he's only easy because you fight him about 6 hours later than you're meant to.
    Adjudicator can be destroyed right away.


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    Re: heavy difficulty increase in ng+...

    Post by Sentiel on Thu Jul 04, 2013 5:09 pm

    C'mon Dibsie. Even if I jump to Pinwheel straight from Undead Asylum he still gets reckt.

    The hard part is getting to him, but if you use the shortcuts, even that is a cakewalk.

    Only danger from Pinwheel is when he manages to fill the room with his clones and they attack you all at once. That can get one killed super fast, but can also be dealt with. The main issue with that situation is ridiculously low framerate.

    Not saying Adjudicator is hard, or anything. He has only two moves I know of and if you keep circle strafing to his wound in the belly, he's completely harmless. If you have ranged options, it's just a target practice and he can't do anything to you.

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    Re: heavy difficulty increase in ng+...

    Post by Dibsville on Thu Jul 04, 2013 5:14 pm

    Do it.
    It's not as easy as people think, depending on your starting character.

    I've done it about 200+ times now and I still die every once and awhile.


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    Re: heavy difficulty increase in ng+...

    Post by Sentiel on Thu Jul 04, 2013 5:17 pm

    I did it, that's why I say it.
    Starting character was Pyromancer, like for almost all of my builds, because I'm a Dex casul.

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    Re: heavy difficulty increase in ng+...

    Post by Dibsville on Thu Jul 04, 2013 5:17 pm

    Pyromancer makes him a cakewalk, it's not as easy with the other classes where you don't have one of the best fire defensive armours in the game right from the start.


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    Re: heavy difficulty increase in ng+...

    Post by densetsushun on Thu Jul 04, 2013 5:46 pm

    This is quickly degenerating into DkS talk, but before any mod tells us to get back on track:
    Dibs, I've used pretty much every starting character and Pinwheel is always easy. On characters like Knight or Warrior I even go close to naked because I can't fastroll otherwise, that removes most of the fire protection.


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    Re: heavy difficulty increase in ng+...

    Post by Dibsville on Thu Jul 04, 2013 5:52 pm

    Easy yes.

    But this is coming from people who know what they're doing against Pinwheel, I would be surprised if more than 2% of people could actually fight Pinwheel with a +0 weapon.


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    Re: heavy difficulty increase in ng+...

    Post by densetsushun on Fri Jul 05, 2013 3:16 am

    It depends on what you consider +0. Is an unupgraded GLGS a +0, or an unupgraded Jagged Ghost Blade?

    Edit: To explain my being pedantic, the point is that a lot of players could head down there while they're on their way to pick one of those up, do you expect them to not use them simply to prove a point to you?


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    Re: heavy difficulty increase in ng+...

    Post by Micha369 on Fri Jul 05, 2013 5:08 am

    Sentiel wrote:Not saying Adjudicator is hard, or anything. He has only two moves I know of and if you keep circle strafing to his wound in the belly, he's completely harmless. If you have ranged options, it's just a target practice and he can't do anything to you.

    You make it sound so easy to kill the Adjudicator!

    If you have limited vitality it is very hard! If you get only one hit (the small and almost not notable swinging of his arm) you are dead!

    And "circle strafing" is also not easy because this guy always blocks the way with his giant belly!

    But he truly is easy if you have still a little health left after getting hit. Time for healing is enough!

    And with distance weapons one have to be careful of the Adjudicators toungue!
    It also is an effective weapon of this guy!

    I would like to see how one can kill him with very low sl! Not in a video that is made after 100 trials and 100 times of dying!


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