kid gave 8 years in prison ovrr a sarcastic comment on LoL

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    Re: kid gave 8 years in prison ovrr a sarcastic comment on LoL

    Post by Kiva the wanderer on Tue Jul 02, 2013 11:28 am

    But even then they had no concrete evidence that he would perform the shooting, you cant just arrest someone on something they say sarcastically or what you assume they will do that's how police states begin.


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    Re: kid gave 8 years in prison ovrr a sarcastic comment on LoL

    Post by Reaperfan on Tue Jul 02, 2013 11:32 am

    Kiva the wanderer wrote:But even then they had no concrete evidence that he would perform the shooting, you cant just arrest someone on something they say sarcastically or what you assume they will do that's how police states begin.

    As I recall, he hasn't officially been arrested yet. He's been taken into custody and is awaiting trial, with the punishment, if found guilty, to be the 8-year prison sentence.


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    Re: kid gave 8 years in prison ovrr a sarcastic comment on LoL

    Post by Railage on Tue Jul 02, 2013 11:35 am

    Kiva the wanderer wrote:But even then they had no concrete evidence that he would perform the shooting, you cant just arrest someone on something they say sarcastically or what you assume they will do that's how police states begin.

     Our future is beginning to look like the Minority Report.

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0181689/

    Small plot for those who haven't seen the movie:


    In a future where a special police unit is able to arrest murderers before they commit their crimes, an officer from that unit is himself accused of a future murder.


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    Re: kid gave 8 years in prison ovrr a sarcastic comment on LoL

    Post by skarekrow13 on Tue Jul 02, 2013 11:36 am

    What Reaper said. He's not convicted of anything yet. Currently he's being held for trial. He's being held likely because THEY have evidence to suspect a threat.

    Evidence to date from what I've read and what articles are basing their opinion on:

    His dad seems to confirm he wrote what he wrote.  
    The claim is that it was a joke.  
    He wrote "lol" and "jk" after the comment.


    If that's all that's in the case file.  Yes, it's a travesty.  I would wager a good deal though that the case file for this investigation is a little thicker than the one post it that the above evidence would fit on.  Until that evidence is presented, it's a little early to call it a travesty.  

    "lol" and "jk" don't absolve a person either for the record.  I've studied a good deal of affirmative defenses in my day and the "lol/jk" defense isn't in there.


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    Re: kid gave 8 years in prison ovrr a sarcastic comment on LoL

    Post by Marino. on Tue Jul 02, 2013 11:37 am

    Reaperfan wrote:
    Kiva the wanderer wrote:But even then they had no concrete evidence that he would perform the shooting, you cant just arrest someone on something they say sarcastically or what you assume they will do that's how police states begin.

    As I recall, he hasn't officially been arrested yet.  He's been taken into custody and is awaiting trial, with the punishment, if found guilty, to be the 8-year prison sentence.

    I was just having fun Reaper...no need to lecture me crying .

    @Bold

    That's the key point .
    We don't know anything about that Kid, we don't know wether he had a past in criminal acts or has acces to Weapons .

    I really doubt that they arrested him just because of that one Sentence, there has to be more .
    And if all they have is that one Sentence then he won't be found guilty making this whole overblown thing completely pointless .

    Edit: Oh god damnit Skare, you frikken ninja !


    Last edited by Marino. on Tue Jul 02, 2013 11:38 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Re: kid gave 8 years in prison ovrr a sarcastic comment on LoL

    Post by Kiva the wanderer on Tue Jul 02, 2013 11:38 am

    Except as otherwise provided in this section, if a person is at least eighteen years of age or has been tried as an adult and is convicted of a dangerous crime against children involving sexual abuse or bestiality under section 13-1411, subsection A, paragraph 2 and is sentenced to a term of imprisonment, the term of imprisonment is as follows and the person is not eligible for release from confinement on any basis except as specifically authorized by section 31-233, subsection A or B until the sentence imposed by the court has been served, the person is eligible for release pursuant to section 41-1604.07 or the sentence is commuted:
    Minimum Presumptive Maximum
    2.5 years 5 years 7.5s year

    http://www.azleg.gov/ars/13/00705.htm So according to this site some crimes against children get less time than what this kid is getting

    The law systems weird


     Tell me if this post offends the rules of the forum and ill delete if thats the case.


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    Re: kid gave 8 years in prison ovrr a sarcastic comment on LoL

    Post by twigsterxd on Tue Jul 02, 2013 11:47 am

    Reaperfan wrote:
    Kiva the wanderer wrote:But even then they had no concrete evidence that he would perform the shooting, you cant just arrest someone on something they say sarcastically or what you assume they will do that's how police states begin.
    As I recall, he hasn't officially been arrested yet.  He's been taken into custody and is awaiting trial, with the punishment, if found guilty, to be the 8-year prison sentence.
    Exactly reap. Also, like skare said, we don't know wut else was said. And, we are only hearing one guys opinion from something he read. He wasn't there, he doesn't know all the details. He is entitled to his opinions but the story is one-sided. There's no stories from the reporter or the person the guy said this too. We don't know wut else was said. The guy is in jail because of a threat he made. After all evidence is gathered, the court will decide. Maybe he did say other things. I'm not saying he's guilty but I'm not taking sides until knowing ALL the facts


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    Re: kid gave 8 years in prison ovrr a sarcastic comment on LoL

    Post by skarekrow13 on Tue Jul 02, 2013 11:48 am

    I think that's a valid post Kiva and a valid argument.  Some punishments are not on par with the crime.  I can get into some wacky NY laws that don't make sense when compared to other laws for sure.  For instance, I'm betting that 8 year max penalty is for something that's come about following all the terrorism panic and legislation.  But, in NY,he could be charged with aggravated harassment in the second degree for the comment alone if they determine his intent was to "alarm" someone (which might be pretty easy to prove actually depending on the rest of that conversation).

    § 240.30 Aggravated harassment in the second degree.
       A person is guilty of aggravated harassment in the second degree when,
     with  intent  to  harass, annoy, threaten or alarm another person, he or
     she:
       1. Either (a) communicates with a person, anonymously or otherwise, by
     telephone, by telegraph, or by mail, or by  transmitting  or  delivering
     any  other  form  of  written communication, in a manner likely to cause
     annoyance or alarm;

    Now this is only  class A misdemeanor which can't result in more than one year incarceration. There's all sorts of options though on why they filed the specific charges.  Who knows, maybe at trial he'll accept a plea deal to something more like what I just posted.

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    Re: kid gave 8 years in prison ovrr a sarcastic comment on LoL

    Post by Kiva the wanderer on Tue Jul 02, 2013 11:50 am

    twigsterxd wrote:
    Reaperfan wrote:
    Kiva the wanderer wrote:But even then they had no concrete evidence that he would perform the shooting, you cant just arrest someone on something they say sarcastically or what you assume they will do that's how police states begin.
    As I recall, he hasn't officially been arrested yet.  He's been taken into custody and is awaiting trial, with the punishment, if found guilty, to be the 8-year prison sentence.
    Exactly reap. Also, like skare said, we don't know wut else was said. And, we are only hearing one guys opinion from something he read. He wasn't there, he doesn't know all the details. He is entitled to his opinions but the story is one-sided. There's no stories from the reporter or the person the guy said this too. We don't know wut else was said. The guy is in jail because of a threat he made. After all evidence is gathered, the court will decide. Maybe he did say other things. I'm not saying he's guilty but I'm not taking sides until knowing ALL the facts

     But the other side invaded his privacy, tracked his address, called the cops on him, knew full well he was joking but probably just wanted to be a jerk and nothing is being done to the person who broke his privacy.


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    Re: kid gave 8 years in prison ovrr a sarcastic comment on LoL

    Post by Marino. on Tue Jul 02, 2013 11:53 am

    Kiva the wanderer wrote:
    twigsterxd wrote:
    Reaperfan wrote:
    Kiva the wanderer wrote:But even then they had no concrete evidence that he would perform the shooting, you cant just arrest someone on something they say sarcastically or what you assume they will do that's how police states begin.
    As I recall, he hasn't officially been arrested yet.  He's been taken into custody and is awaiting trial, with the punishment, if found guilty, to be the 8-year prison sentence.
    Exactly reap. Also, like skare said, we don't know wut else was said. And, we are only hearing one guys opinion from something he read. He wasn't there, he doesn't know all the details. He is entitled to his opinions but the story is one-sided. There's no stories from the reporter or the person the guy said this too. We don't know wut else was said. The guy is in jail because of a threat he made. After all evidence is gathered, the court will decide. Maybe he did say other things. I'm not saying he's guilty but I'm not taking sides until knowing ALL the facts

     But the other side invaded his privacy, tracked his address, called the cops on him, knew full well he was joking but probably just wanted to be a jerk and nothing is being done to the person who broke his privacy.

    Think about it from another perspective :
    You think someone threatens to start a shooting in the School .
    Would you rather invade his privacy to stop his crime or just let him do it since you're not allowed to invade his privacy ?
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    Re: kid gave 8 years in prison ovrr a sarcastic comment on LoL

    Post by Kiva the wanderer on Tue Jul 02, 2013 11:56 am

    Marino. wrote:
    Kiva the wanderer wrote:
    twigsterxd wrote:
    Reaperfan wrote:
    Kiva the wanderer wrote:But even then they had no concrete evidence that he would perform the shooting, you cant just arrest someone on something they say sarcastically or what you assume they will do that's how police states begin.
    As I recall, he hasn't officially been arrested yet.  He's been taken into custody and is awaiting trial, with the punishment, if found guilty, to be the 8-year prison sentence.
    Exactly reap. Also, like skare said, we don't know wut else was said. And, we are only hearing one guys opinion from something he read. He wasn't there, he doesn't know all the details. He is entitled to his opinions but the story is one-sided. There's no stories from the reporter or the person the guy said this too. We don't know wut else was said. The guy is in jail because of a threat he made. After all evidence is gathered, the court will decide. Maybe he did say other things. I'm not saying he's guilty but I'm not taking sides until knowing ALL the facts

     But the other side invaded his privacy, tracked his address, called the cops on him, knew full well he was joking but probably just wanted to be a jerk and nothing is being done to the person who broke his privacy.

    Think about it from another perspective :
    You think someone threatens to start a shooting in the School .
    Would you rather invade his privacy to stop his crime or just let him do it since you're not allowed to invade his privacy ?

     
    Thing is they know he was joking, he didnt make a threat he was being sarcastic and your point is good but we have to remember the goverment is not being reasonable here, hes just a kid that made a joke on a video game that could have his life ruined because some jerk took what he said and twisted it to the police


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    Re: kid gave 8 years in prison ovrr a sarcastic comment on LoL

    Post by Marino. on Tue Jul 02, 2013 11:58 am

    They knew he was joking ?
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    Re: kid gave 8 years in prison ovrr a sarcastic comment on LoL

    Post by twigsterxd on Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:00 pm

    Skare that makes sense cause the victim(s) could just get a restraint. If restraint is broken, it means jail time. Kev I agree with your post just above my last one. Those types of people here sometimes get 2 yrs or less. If they re-offend, they get same amount or less time. It's messed up.
    As far as getting persons address and such. There are legal websites you can obtain information. Also, as I said, it's one-sided. How do we know this lady didn't contact a friend on the police force? Or, maybe her husband is a cop. We don't know. It's not really an invasion of privacy unless she actually DID do it. But there's no proof. Just a newspaper article that doesn't have the entire story


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    Re: kid gave 8 years in prison ovrr a sarcastic comment on LoL

    Post by skarekrow13 on Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:17 pm

    What if the kid in question has his address posted on his facebook account?  I can't tell you how many people still do that.  

    What if he even just has his town and neighborhood listed?

    What if he wrote a review on Amazon under his real name and with his town listed?  

    He might as well have his location placed on a billboard.  There's nothing illegal about that obtaining his information.  

    Thirty seconds on the internet with his name or screen name and she might have had a biography on this guy.  We don't know. Unless she accessed a private database via illegitimate means she didn't do anything wrong.  

    How's this scenario?  She looks up his name or screen name...finds the town he stated he lived in, looked in a phone book or online phone directory and now has an address if they have a land line. All perfectly legal.  

    The fact is, the articles (plural for a reason) I've seen haven't mentioned HOW she found out where he lived, just that she did. Maybe he told her for all I know.  

    From an investigative standpoint (one I live every day), they don't know it's a joke until they look into it.  Text does not convey sarcasm or joking and like I said before, "lol" or "jk" doesn't actually mean much from a legal standpoint.

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    Re: kid gave 8 years in prison ovrr a sarcastic comment on LoL

    Post by KrazykevS10 on Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:25 pm

    I'm going to go into my old school and go on a random killing spree with a gun I don't have access to.I will do this not because I am mentally ill but because I play video games and it should only be taken as such.I will also put a bomb on a random US plane for fun and poison the coolade.

    Come at me America.
    Well What is it


    In a more super cereal tone,how can they convict someone on terrorism charges if one,they only said they would do it and two,probably don't have a gun in the first place? I mean,I'd have him arrested while it is investigated just to make sure but taking it to court is downright retarded.The question you need to ask yourself is did I facepalm five times or six?


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    Re: kid gave 8 years in prison ovrr a sarcastic comment on LoL

    Post by twigsterxd on Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:32 pm

    KEV he hasn't been convicted yet just charged.

    Skare, I was gonna say that but didn't want to double post.
    Ran out of room LOL


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    Re: kid gave 8 years in prison ovrr a sarcastic comment on LoL

    Post by KrazykevS10 on Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:36 pm

    I know he hasn't been convicted yet but they wouldn't try to charge him unless they intended to.People are very,very stupid.On one hand,I don't see how on Earth a person can go to jail for saying something.On the other,they are stupid enough to make some bullcrap laws for it.


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    Re: kid gave 8 years in prison ovrr a sarcastic comment on LoL

    Post by skarekrow13 on Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:54 pm

    A brief overview of the American Criminal Justice System:

    -A complaint is made to police
    -Police investigate the concern and proceed with an investigation whose seriousness is intended to be on par with the seriousness of the crime and circumstances surrounding it.  If they find that there is insufficient evidence for crime, no arrest will be made
    -If police determine that there may or may not be enough evidence or reason to justify an arrest, they will contact the District Attorney who will make a recommendation based on the reported circumstances and evidence to date
    -After an arrest, the person is told the complaint against them and makes an appearance at court in front of a judge who hears the preliminary details of the case. This is generally when bail is set.  Bail can be denied but only under extreme circumstances
    -The person either waits in jail or posts bail and waits at home for the next court appearance.
    -Often this will be a grand jury (typically 12 community members) who will review the preliminary evidence.  This step is a determination to see if there is sufficient evidence to proceed with a formal accusation or indictment.  
    -If a grand jury makes the decision to indict the defendant, the case is then sent over to the District Attorney's office again to assign a prosecutor who then starts building evidence to pursue the case in court.  
    -If at any time during their evidence collection, a member of the District Attorney's office determines that the facts of the case are insufficient to prosecute they can attempt to modify the charges.  
    -If it is found that they believe that the evidence indicates that a lesser crime has been committed, they can offer a deal to the defendant to plead "guilty" to the lesser charge to avoid trial.  This is only usually done if they're pretty convinced they'll win the trial anyway.
    -If the prosecutor feels that justice will not be served by a prolonged trial or more severe punishment, they can also lower the charges or offer a plea in this case as well.  


    The person in question appears to have been through these steps and is awaiting trial.  That means, the woman who reported the incident, the police officers who investigated, the police officer(s) who made the arrest, the District Attorney's office, a judge, 12 members of a grand jury, and the person assigned to prosecute all believe that there is credible evidence to proceed with the case.  

    I know that the legal system here isn't perfect and can get downright wacky from time to time, but I have a hard time believing that all of those people have had such a departure from common sense that the only shred of evidence against the kid is one comment. It stands to reason that they've seen and heard a lot more than what we have.

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    Re: kid gave 8 years in prison ovrr a sarcastic comment on LoL

    Post by Railage on Tue Jul 02, 2013 1:09 pm

    skarekrow13 wrote:What if the kid in question has his address posted on his facebook account?  I can't tell you how many people still do that.  

    What if he even just has his town and neighborhood listed?

    What if he wrote a review on Amazon under his real name and with his town listed?  

    He might as well have his location placed on a billboard.  There's nothing illegal about that obtaining his information.  

    Thirty seconds on the internet with his name or screen name and she might have had a biography on this guy.  We don't know. Unless she accessed a private database via illegitimate means she didn't do anything wrong.  

    How's this scenario?  She looks up his name or screen name...finds the town he stated he lived in, looked in a phone book or online phone directory and now has an address if they have a land line. All perfectly legal.  

    The fact is, the articles (plural for a reason) I've seen haven't mentioned HOW she found out where he lived, just that she did. Maybe he told her for all I know.  

    From an investigative standpoint (one I live every day), they don't know it's a joke until they look into it.  Text does not convey sarcasm or joking and like I said before, "lol" or "jk" doesn't actually mean much from a legal standpoint.

     If you had any free time I'd love to see what you could find out about me.

    Ever since you said 
    skarekrow13 wrote: Either she's a pro haxxor or the kid has a further body of evidence he doesn't mind leaving around.  I investigate things for my job.  I can tell you that I've been able to use one single piece of online info to do a pretty substantial check on people before.


    I've been very curious.


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    Re: kid gave 8 years in prison ovrr a sarcastic comment on LoL

    Post by skarekrow13 on Tue Jul 02, 2013 1:27 pm

    Lol....if I have some more free time maybe I'll give it a whirl. Admittedly sometimes you run into major walls or misinformation or outdated stuff. I've been trying to find a police statement regarding this case and noticed that the woman who reported it did in fact see the comment on Facebook. That's usually one of the easiest starting points. It can be a little tougher here since we all have aliases the starting info is hit or miss.


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    Re: kid gave 8 years in prison ovrr a sarcastic comment on LoL

    Post by PlasticandRage on Tue Jul 02, 2013 2:04 pm

    It might not even necessarily go that far. I haven't really been reading up on the whole thing because I whole heartedly believe nothings going to happen, but I think even if the DA believes he deserves to be tried that the judge will throw it out, which they can do both during the initial meeting (arraignment) or after. No judge is going to meet that kid and review the case and take it to trial. Or probably even set bail at all.


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    Re: kid gave 8 years in prison ovrr a sarcastic comment on LoL

    Post by aceluby on Tue Jul 02, 2013 2:52 pm

    Everyone can thank the Patriot Act for this one.  If it wasn't law of the land we'd have a little thing called the constitution to protect him, but alas he's been labeled a terrorist and therefore loses his fundamental rights guaranteed by that document.  This crap has been happening for 10 years is the reason why I believe the terrorists have already won.  They don't even have to do anything anymore because we're constantly in a state of fear and willing to give up our freedom and rights because of it.  Just look at the boston marathon bombing.  Shut down a huge metropolis & surrounding suburbs, then conduct house to house searches for on 19 yr old that is supposedly severely wounded?  I might have been born in this country, but chances are good I will not die in this country because this is not the same country I was born in.


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    Re: kid gave 8 years in prison ovrr a sarcastic comment on LoL

    Post by PlasticandRage on Tue Jul 02, 2013 3:11 pm

    Wait they've labeled this kid a terrorist?

    Have you seen the patriot act video of the woman being pulled out of her car at the traffic stop? I'll try to find it if you haven't. It's probably the most ridiculous piece of PA related crap I've seen. They keep renewing the law too. Probably will be around for good.

    Wish I could remember where it happened. That'd probably help in finding the video. Basically what happens is there's a police checkpoint, like checking vehicle inspections or what have you, and this woman pulls up, and the cop asks her something, can't remember what, and then doesn't like her answer, and starts badgering her. She doesn't put up with it, cites her constitutional rights, and he looks in her backseat and sees a library book, a fictional book about submarine warfare, like Hunt for Red October or something, and accuses her of terrorism. She fires back, saying how ridiculous he's being, and he pulls her out of her seat by her hair through her opened window and arrests her as a suspected terrorist. Meanwhile her children are watching all of it from her backseat. It was all filmed on his dashcam. Was one of the first big widely recognized abuses of police power through the patriot act. Can't seem to find the video. Happened right around when the law was first passed. It's hard for me to grasp that it's a law that's continuing to be renewed considering all the room it gives anyone in authority positions to do whatever they want.

    Yeah I can't find it. It's buried among the other thousands of videos online that illustrate pretty much the same thing.


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    Re: kid gave 8 years in prison ovrr a sarcastic comment on LoL

    Post by Serious_Much on Tue Jul 02, 2013 4:00 pm

    America applause


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    Re: kid gave 8 years in prison ovrr a sarcastic comment on LoL

    Post by Onion Knight on Tue Jul 02, 2013 4:06 pm

    There was a case here in the UK where a guy jokingly posted on twitter that he would blow up Nottingham airport if his plane was delayed again. 

    He got arrested, charged and taken to court.

    The case against him collapsed in court though. He also had a pretty big petition to clear him of wrong doing and the support of quiet a few popular figures here too.

    The same could well happen here.


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    Re: kid gave 8 years in prison ovrr a sarcastic comment on LoL

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